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jgloporto


Sep 12, 2007, 2:16 PM
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The Official rc.com 2007 NFL Thread (not affiliated with the BET. All rights reserved.)
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Bill Belichick ... Genius, Evil Genius, or Dirty, Dirty Cheater?


Bill Belichick's reputation is that of a brilliant football genius in a ratty hooded sweatshirt.

But recent revelations about the way that Patriots do things could lead to the genius title being stripped ... and the trademark hooded sweatshirt going from the down-to-earth quirk of a brilliant man to nothing more than the standard attire of common thieves everywhere, whether they're stealing cash from liquor stores or signals from the New York Jets defensive coaching staff.

The Patriots, of course, have won three Super Bowls (so far) this decade, and in doing so, have forged a reputation for themselves as the smartest and most noble team in the NFL. They have the smart players, the good character guys ... America went ga-ga over them when they chose not to be introduced as individuals before their first Super Bowl victory. They were a great big ball of wonderful.

And they still might be the smartest team in the league ... but not because they're out-thinking other players and coaches, but because they've found a way to cheat without being caught.

Until now.

ESPN reports that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has determined that the Patriots broke league rules before NFL security officials confiscated a camera and a videotape from a Patriots assistant who was believed to be videotaping the Jets defensive signals.

If it's true that the Patriots were engaging in such behavior -- and if they've been doing so for a long time -- then there's no punishment strong enough. It's clearly against league rules, clearly against the spirit of clean, honest, competition, and it tarnishes the legacy of the best dynasty in sports over the last decade.

If Roger Goodell chose to take back all three Lombardi trophies the Patriots have won in recent years (again, if the allegations are true), melt them down into a collection of sharp, tiny needles which would then be used to repeatedly poke the eyeballs and going area of head coach Bill Belichick ... I couldn't say that was too harsh.

This is worse than a player using steroids. A player's primary weapon his his body ... his strength, his size, his speed. Even if he chemically enhances those attributes, he still has to take the field and make the plays.

A coach's primary weapon is his mind ... a coach's equivalent to a player doping would be a coach taking some kind of pill to increase his alertness and enhance his power of observation. But even if he was able to make his mind sharper, he'd still have to go out there and do the thinking.

The videotaping and stealing of signals, though ... that's having the work done for you. You no longer have to worry about calling the plays to put your team in a position to succeed, there's no chess match against the other coach, all the guesswork is eliminated ... you know exactly what the defense is going to do, and you respond to exploit it. There's no longer any skill there. Wayne Fontes and Rich Kotite could be labeled geniuses if they had that advantage.

A player's equivalent to this wouldn't be using steroids ... it would be using a taser gun to incapacitate an opposing quarterback.

Think about how easy it would be to beat a defense if you knew exactly what they were going to do. Once you get the team's signals figured out, a coach can spot them in the booth, and then radio them down to the quarterback, via that little green sticker on the back of his helmet ... it would take all of 3 or 4 seconds.

All the sudden, you wouldn't need a quarterback to be able to make any decisions on the fly ... a coach could tell him exactly where the blitz is coming from, allowing him to audible protection to that side ... he'd know exactly where the one-on-one coverage would be, or exactly where the soft spots in the zone would be. It would make things so much easier for an offense. Charlie Frye could be a Pro Bowler if you told him exactly what the defense was doing before the play.

Still, I can't pretend to know how much this has helped the Patriots, and I'm not suggesting that Bill Belichick and Tom Brady are just cheating versions of Wayne Fontes and Charlie Frye.

But these accusations are like steroid accusations in that respect ... no one can really know exactly how much of an advantage someone's getting because of them. Using everyone's favorite steroid example, Barry Bonds ... without (allegedly) using steroids, maybe he still hits 762 home runs, or maybe it's 425. No one can answer that definitively.

And maybe the Patriots still beat the Jets 38-14 if they stole signals or if they didn't. Maybe if they're not stealing signals, they still win, but by fewer points ... maybe they lose 14-0. Again, no one has the answer here.

And if this has been going on for a long time, maybe they still win 3 Super Bowls ... maybe they win 0.

Honestly, that feels like an overreaction ... but that's what cheating does. No matter how much or how little it's actually helped, it surrounds all accomplishments with doubt.

I don't think it's any great stretch to believe that this has been going on for a long time, either. The same assistant who had his video confiscated during the game against the Jets was caught doing the same thing last year in Lambeau Field.

"From what I can remember, he had quite a fit when we took him out," Packers president Bob Harlan told ESPN's Chris Mortensen. "We had gotten word before the game that they [the Patriots] did this sort of thing, so we were looking for it."

So the Patriots were caught doing the same thing last year against a bad team ... and at that time, that bad team had been tipped off by someone else that this was a habit of the Patriots.

I have no trouble believing that this has been going on for years (incidentally, neither do the Pittsburgh Steelers) ... if the Patriots are willing to cheat against a bad team in the opposite conference, it doesn't take a huge leap to think they'd be willing to cheat against everyone else, too. And let's face it, Bill Belichick is not known as the most honest of men.

I hope the league launches a full investigation into this, not just about the Jets game or the Packers game ... they need to figure out exactly how long this has been going on. If the Pats are innocent, or if they're not doing anything that every other team in the league isn't doing, then they deserve to be cleared and have their reputation restored.

And if it can be proven that they've done something illegal, and they've been doing it for a long time ... then they deserve to have the Goodell hammer of justice brought down forcefully upon them. If Pacman Jones gets suspended for a year for sullying the league's wholesome image in a Vegas strip club ... what's the appropriate punishment for someone who cheats to get an unfair competitive advantage on an NFL field, right under everyone's nose?


(This post was edited by jgloporto on Sep 12, 2007, 10:05 PM)


jgloporto


Sep 12, 2007, 2:17 PM
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Having just read this unbiased and exquisitely well written article I have to say that I am just shocked by this news. Isn't it shocking?


jgloporto


Sep 12, 2007, 2:18 PM
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jgloporto wrote:
Having just read this unbiased and exquisitely well written article I have to say that I am just shocked by this news. Isn't it shocking?

Wow! This is shocking indeed!


jakedatc


Sep 12, 2007, 2:34 PM
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you want to site the NY newspaper or blog you got it from? ;)

only in NY do the home crowd cheer when the HOME QB gets hurt.. brilliant..

my guess is that someone will get suspended and probably a fine of some sort..


Partner wideguy


Sep 12, 2007, 2:36 PM
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jgloporto wrote:
Having just read this unbiased and exquisitely well written article I have to say that I am just shocked by this news. Isn't it shocking?

LOL!!!!!

Yeah, what about the reports that it was actually Man"genius" that started the idea when he was coordinator here?

And seeing as it seems it was his idea, and was going on when he coached here, how STUPID does Mangini have to be to let himself get beat by it? Don Shula was interviewed and his response was "Signal stealing has been going on for decades, and if I'm dumb enough to not have decoy signals then I deserve to get beat. "

and finally, knowing your defensive signals doesn't matter when your players flat out don't tackle, don't cover and your quarterback couldn't deliver fries to the takeout window at McDonalds.
Tongue




carabiner96


Sep 12, 2007, 2:36 PM
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jgloporto wrote:
jgloporto wrote:
Having just read this unbiased and exquisitely well written article I have to say that I am just shocked by this news. Isn't it shocking?

Wow! This is shocking indeed!

Suck it, Jersey.


jgloporto


Sep 12, 2007, 2:37 PM
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jakedatc wrote:
you want to site the NY newspaper or blog you got it from? ;)

only in NY do the home crowd cheer when the HOME QB gets hurt.. brilliant..

my guess is that someone will get suspended and probably a fine of some sort..

My mistake. I was too shocked and upset by this shocking news!!

Unbiased Linky


jgloporto


Sep 12, 2007, 2:39 PM
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carabiner96 wrote:
jgloporto wrote:
jgloporto wrote:
Having just read this unbiased and exquisitely well written article I have to say that I am just shocked by this news. Isn't it shocking?

Wow! This is shocking indeed!

Suck ya, Jersey?

Fixed.


jakedatc


Sep 12, 2007, 2:40 PM
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your ride is here....



jgloporto


Sep 12, 2007, 2:41 PM
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wideguy wrote:
jgloporto wrote:
Having just read this unbiased and exquisitely well written article I have to say that I am just shocked by this news. Isn't it shocking?

LOL!!!!!

Yeah, what about the reports that it was actually Man"genius" that started the idea when he was coordinator here?

And seeing as it seems it was his idea, and was going on when he coached here, how STUPID does Mangini have to be to let himself get beat by it? Don Shula was interviewed and his response was "Signal stealing has been going on for decades, and if I'm dumb enough to not have decoy signals then I deserve to get beat. "

and finally, knowing your defensive signals doesn't matter when your players flat out don't tackle, don't cover and your quarterback couldn't deliver fries to the takeout window at McDonalds.
Tongue

[image]http://static.flickr.com/78/155733289_44299089e6.jpg[/image]

I could give a shit about the Jets... I just keep thinking about all those Super Bowl rings....


jgloporto


Sep 12, 2007, 2:43 PM
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Flame away my New England friends....

I am imune from such attacks today.


Cheater

Cheater

Pumpkin eater.Unimpressed


dingus


Sep 12, 2007, 2:45 PM
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That sure was a lot of words about football.

Wow. America needs a life.

DMT


Partner wideguy


Sep 12, 2007, 2:46 PM
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Latest related news is that this whole thing may have been a sting by the NFL Rules Committee for a very specific purpose. Seems for four or five years now the rules committee, or competition committee, has been trying to institute the use of in-helmet speakers for defense as well as offense. There thinking is the exact same reason the offenses use them, people have been stealing signals for years. They have 22 of 24 votes needed to institute it. (Apparently the problem is logistics, too many defensive subs mean you'd have to have mics in too many helmets, unlike offense where it's easy to mike just the QB and backup.)

"Unnamed league sources" have said that several teams were potentially targeted in the sting, the theory being if they could catch someone they could use it as leverage to get the two last votes they need.

Not to say that it was right. It's not. It's against the rules. But there is apparently a very specific reason Goddell "Restated the rules" so vehemently this pre-season. They were hoping to catch someone.


jgloporto


Sep 12, 2007, 2:47 PM
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carabiner96 wrote:
jgloporto wrote:
jgloporto wrote:
Having just read this unbiased and exquisitely well written article I have to say that I am just shocked by this news. Isn't it shocking?

Wow! This is shocking indeed!

Suck it, Jersey.

You know, now that I think about it, I can't figure the Boston/Foxboro connection in Vermont. You're in fucking Burlington. You could spit and hit New York. Why are you guys Red Sox/Patriot fans anyway???!!!


Partner wideguy


Sep 12, 2007, 2:48 PM
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jgloporto wrote:
Flame away my New England friends....

I am imune from such attacks today.


Cheater

Cheater

Pumpkin eater.Unimpressed



Tongue


Partner wideguy


Sep 12, 2007, 2:49 PM
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jgloporto wrote:
You know, now that I think about it, I can't figure the Boston/Foxboro connection in Vermont. You're in fucking Burlington. You could spit and hit New York. Why are you guys Red Sox/Patriot fans anyway???!!!

"NEW ENGLAND Patriots" Vermont is one of those six states. DUH!


Partner j_ung


Sep 12, 2007, 3:01 PM
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wideguy wrote:
(Apparently the problem is logistics, too many defensive subs mean you'd have to have mics in too many helmets, unlike offense where it's easy to mike just the QB and backup.)

I don't understand. Defenses have signal callers and audibles, just like offenses. Surely it can't be more than two or three guys.


(This post was edited by j_ung on Sep 12, 2007, 3:02 PM)


clausti


Sep 12, 2007, 3:03 PM
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i dont get it. learning to read another team's signals is against the rules?


Partner wideguy


Sep 12, 2007, 3:17 PM
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j_ung wrote:
wideguy wrote:
(Apparently the problem is logistics, too many defensive subs mean you'd have to have mics in too many helmets, unlike offense where it's easy to mike just the QB and backup.)

I don't understand. Defenses have signal callers and audibles, just like offenses. Surely it can't be more than two or three guys.

I don't either. Just what I heard on the radio this AM.

From what I gather on any given play there is only one defensive signal caller, often an interior linebacker, but with substitutions that may be any one of 3 or 4 guys on the team. Apparently the opponents worry about that for some reason. To many mikes? Too many failure points?

For example if you treat it like QB's, if one team loses com, they both must shut down. So if you have, for the sake of discussion, Tedy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel and Junior Seau miked up on the Pats, then Seau's helmet speaker goes down. Now the pats are at a disadvantage every time Seau's on the field and supposed to be signal calling. So then both teams would have to shut down.

I dunno.

And Clausti, yes, never understood it myself, but it is illegal to try and learn opponents signals. Same in baseball. So to counteract, smart teams have decoy signals to keep things confused.

Technically, if your opponents was, for whatever reason, dumb enough to left their play book in your locker room, it would be illegal for an NFL team to read it too.


carabiner96


Sep 12, 2007, 3:19 PM
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clausti wrote:
i dont get it. learning to read another team's signals is against the rules?

Yeah, I thought reading the othe team was kind of...the point.


jgloporto


Sep 12, 2007, 3:19 PM
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wideguy wrote:
jgloporto wrote:
You know, now that I think about it, I can't figure the Boston/Foxboro connection in Vermont. You're in fucking Burlington. You could spit and hit New York. Why are you guys Red Sox/Patriot fans anyway???!!!

"NEW ENGLAND Patriots" Vermont is one of those six states. DUH!

Yeah.. and??? Who elected Boston to be the representative of New England. Why not have the Burlington New England Patriots, or the Portland New England Patriots... I personally like the New England Chatham Cheaters. It's got a nice ring.

If I was in Burlington or Portland, I'd be pissed. Yet everyone is walking around with Red Sox, Bruins and Patriots hats. WTF rest-of-New-England? Rhode Island I can understand since it's barely a state and almost a suburb of Boston but New Hampshire??? Vermont??

Come join the Evil Empire Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine and we will at least respect you folks as coming from independent and distinct states. I'll tell you what New England, we'll trade you the fancy part of Connecticut that's part of the Tri-State area for Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine.


clausti


Sep 12, 2007, 3:22 PM
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that's retarded.

if the other team has signals easy enough to figure out, they deserve to have them figured out.

how can you make it against the rules to video something that's in plain sight?


carabiner96


Sep 12, 2007, 3:27 PM
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jgloporto wrote:
wideguy wrote:
jgloporto wrote:
You know, now that I think about it, I can't figure the Boston/Foxboro connection in Vermont. You're in fucking Burlington. You could spit and hit New York. Why are you guys Red Sox/Patriot fans anyway???!!!

"NEW ENGLAND Patriots" Vermont is one of those six states. DUH!

Yeah.. and??? Who elected Boston to be the representative of New England. Why not have the Burlington New England Patriots, or the Portland New England Patriots... I personally like the New England Chatham Cheaters. It's got a nice ring.

If I was in Burlington or Portland, I'd be pissed. Yet everyone is walking around with Red Sox, Bruins and Patriots hats. WTF rest-of-New-England? Rhode Island I can understand since it's barely a state and almost a suburb of Boston but New Hampshire??? Vermont??

Come join the Evil Empire Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine and we will at least respect you folks as coming from independent and distinct states. I'll tell you what New England, we'll trade you the fancy part of Connecticut that's part of the Tri-State area for Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine.

Well, that's because Boston is OUR city. Maine, New Hampshire and Vermont don't have a city, we just get filled up with all of the people who are rich enough to get second homes in the country - nevermind, don't get me started on THAT.

I hate football. Other than Tom Brady being super hot, it makes me want to stap my appendix out with a fork. I'm a die hard Sox fan though.


jgloporto


Sep 12, 2007, 3:29 PM
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carabiner96 wrote:
clausti wrote:
i dont get it. learning to read another team's signals is against the rules?

Yeah, I thought reading the othe team was kind of...the point.

It's kind of esoteric but, just like baseball, intentionally stealing signals is illegal. Because any sideline observer could link plays to signals, the defensive coordinator will use dummy signals or variations so that a casual observer couldn't figure out the play calls so it is to some extent up to the defensive coordinator to protect that information, but the league has rules in place meant to curb the blatant stealing of signals. The cheater, cheater patriots were recording an entire half worth of signals, going into the locker room at half time, decoding those signals and then coming out in the second half armed. So if a defensive coordinator called a weak side blitz, cheater cheater Tom Brady got get that relayed to him from cheater cheater Bill Belichick and call and audible to adjust for the impending blitz, making them a bunch of cheaters, cheaters, cheaters, all the while taking credit as the smartest team in the NFL.


jgloporto


Sep 12, 2007, 3:37 PM
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carabiner96 wrote:
Well, that's because Boston is OUR city.

Oh please, with no traffic on the NY State Thruway, you're closer to NYC than to Boston. I met a few converts in Burlington, they couldn't make sense of it either (though one of them was a cab driver who goes by the name "Lone Wolf." He was a strange strange person so I wouldn't put in the perfectly sane/sense-making bucket).

At any rate, you stare at New York State every day, for Christsakes!

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