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Gmburns2000
Sep 25, 2007, 1:12 PM
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This is going to sound odd, but a buddy of mine told me recently that he read an article about how the climbing community has a higher-than-average Alzheimers population. He said that the study focused on that black stuff that gets on your hands when belaying a dirty rope. Apparently, the black stuff isn't just dirt, but also a residue from carabiners and belay devices and that this residue in high doses, over time, can have an adverse effect. Supposedly, just picking up a biner wouldn't hurt, but running ropes over one all day, several times a year over many, many years combined with wiping one's face or rubbing one's nose or eating food without washing hands first would help the residue become ingested more than just handling the gear itself.
Anyway, he doesn't have the report on hand, and can't remember where he read it, so I wanted to know if anyone else had heard of this, if there was any reason to believe this, if anyone knows of the report or, in general, if this makes sense. My partner wasn't fooling around when he said this, and I don't have any reason to believe that he'd lie about it. It is possible that he didn't remember the article as well as he could have, but conceptually he wouldn't have made this up out of thin air.
Thoughts? I'm not necessarily concerned, but it is interesting.
PS - it is odd that the word "carabiner" comes up as misspelled on a climbing site's spell checker.
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binrat
Sep 25, 2007, 1:43 PM
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Is this a twist to the Aluminum pot syndrome?Sounds like it to me. Now back to..............what was I doing again?
Binrat
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blueeyedclimber
Sep 25, 2007, 1:45 PM
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Yes, I'd like the salad. What's that you say?, I go to bed now. Beans are good. Spell-check, what, who said that? NOOOO. Me go potty in my pants. Yes, back in 1959, I was a bus driver. I've seen some things, I have....wooo boy!.......
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Gmburns2000
Sep 25, 2007, 1:49 PM
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blueeyedclimber wrote: Yes, I'd like the salad. What's that you say?, I go to bed now. Beans are good. Spell-check, what, who said that? NOOOO. Me go potty in my pants. Yes, back in 1959, I was a bus driver. I've seen some things, I have....wooo boy!.......
I WAS SERIOUS!!!!!
No really, I was serious. Damn, you can't get anything off this site.
Hey Josh, what's your name again?
OK, OK, back to the question at hand. Seriously, has anyone heard of this?
edited: forgot the "?" after "this"
(This post was edited by Gmburns2000 on Sep 25, 2007, 1:49 PM)
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binrat
Sep 25, 2007, 1:59 PM
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But seriously, the Canadian Military ordered personnel to stop using the aluminum mess tins for eating while in the field. Not saying that the APS is for real or anything.
I do not know of any studies on this effects on climbers.
Just my $.02 worth
Binrat
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Gmburns2000
Sep 25, 2007, 2:01 PM
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binrat wrote: But seriously, the Canadian Military ordered personnel to stop using the aluminum mess tins for eating while in the field. Not saying that the APS is for real or anything. I do not know of any studies on this effects on climbers. Just my $.02 worth Binrat
That's an interesting start to solving the mystery. Thanks.
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fitzontherocks
Sep 25, 2007, 2:15 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: blueeyedclimber wrote: Yes, I'd like the salad. What's that you say?, I go to bed now. Beans are good. Spell-check, what, who said that? NOOOO. Me go potty in my pants. Yes, back in 1959, I was a bus driver. I've seen some things, I have....wooo boy!....... I WAS SERIOUS!!!!! No really, I was serious. Damn, you can't get anything off this site. Hey Josh, what's your name again? OK, OK, back to the question at hand. Seriously, has anyone heard of this? edited: forgot the "?" after "this"
OK, you KNEW that was coming, right? Anyway, I just spent about 30 minutes googling carabiners and Alzheimer's and got zilch. Lean on the friend who told you this. MAKE him remember! Inquiring minds want to know. And I think binrat's aluminum pot theory is not too far of IF there's any truth to this at all. But it's a big IF. And if it's just memory loss we're talking about here, well, that could easily just be the weed.
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lena_chita
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Sep 25, 2007, 2:15 PM
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maybe RC.com will eventually have a category for "Alzheimer onsight" in a climbing log?
Seriously though, I don't know anything about this particular study, but I have seen other news reports of the link between Alzheimer and Aluminum. (though I never was worried enough to dig out the original scientific papers... b/c I don't have aluminum cookware)
Anyway, I did see that a review of belay gloves in October Rock and Ice uses this as their selling point for the gloves (protecting yourself from Aluminum oxide)
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the_leech
Sep 25, 2007, 2:25 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: binrat wrote: But seriously, the Canadian Military ordered personnel to stop using the aluminum mess tins for eating while in the field. Not saying that the APS is for real or anything. I do not know of any studies on this effects on climbers. Just my $.02 worth Binrat That's an interesting start to solving the mystery. Thanks.
No it's not. It's just a useless anecdote.
The link (or lack thereof) between Alzheimer's and aluminum has been studied extensively.
Might I suggest searching Pubmed rather than a rock climbing forum if you're looking for useful information on medical issues?
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Gmburns2000
Sep 25, 2007, 2:33 PM
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fitzontherocks wrote: OK, you KNEW that was coming, right?
Yeah, I knew it was coming. I was just hoping...
fitzontherocks wrote: Anyway, I just spent about 30 minutes googling carabiners and Alzheimer's and got zilch. Lean on the friend who told you this. MAKE him remember! Inquiring minds want to know. And I think binrat's aluminum pot theory is not too far of IF there's any truth to this at all. But it's a big IF. And if it's just memory loss we're talking about here, well, that could easily just be the weed.
This is what I found after a Google search of "alzheimers and aluminum" -
http://student.biology.arizona.edu/ad/allevels.html
http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/...s/info_aluminium.htm - I love this one because in the US, we are the only country that spells this element a-l-u-m-i-n-u-m. Everyone else spells is a-l-u-m-i-n-i-u-m
Other then that, I also googled Alzheimer's and Rock Climbing and didn't find any hits (but I did that before I posted my original post - that's why I asked). It seems aluminum doesn't really have an effect, but it is inconclusive.
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binrat
Sep 25, 2007, 2:37 PM
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I was just talking to a friend who indicated it was more for hygiene. The mess tins had a porous surface which held food particles in it. If not properly cleaned the troops were getting sick from it.
Binrat
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jaybro
Sep 27, 2007, 1:26 AM
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Another argument for free soloing.
"Alzheimer onsight"
-you can't climb the same climb twice, even if you, Can, remember previous ascents.
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mikitta
Sep 27, 2007, 1:55 AM
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Used to work at an assisted living facility on the Senile Dementia ward. Could tell some very funny stories if I wanted to ;p
Just on the face of it, I can't imagine any study has been done that connects climbers and Alzheimer's - study size would be rather small. Also, haven't aluminum 'biners only been in use for the last 30ish years? Didn't they used to be steel? Maybe not - I can't remember :p
I think this is an urban legend. You might check Snopes.com to see if they have anything on it.
/me wanders off mumbling about the cat in the belay device and when is her uncle coming home from the post office ...
God Bless,
mik
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gunkiemike
Sep 27, 2007, 2:03 AM
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the_leech wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: binrat wrote: But seriously, the Canadian Military ordered personnel to stop using the aluminum mess tins for eating while in the field. Not saying that the APS is for real or anything. I do not know of any studies on this effects on climbers. Just my $.02 worth Binrat That's an interesting start to solving the mystery. Thanks. No it's not. It's just a useless anecdote. The link (or lack thereof) between Alzheimer's and aluminum has been studied extensively.
The last thing I read in the popular press about the Al-AD connection is that the whole thing started with the report that AD patients' brains contained elevated levels of Al. That was subsequently found to be spurious results, but the connection was off and running and now has a life of its own. As evidenced bu this latest scare, no doubt.
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