Jung, yes some of the pricy dry tratments are better but that is a non issue for a cragging rope. cragging implys single or half pitch. If it rains we rap and go home.
Cragging rope = cheapest rope available or model of prefrence not more than $20 above cheapest price available.
Ice/alpine = cheapest super dry in your targeted weight and diameter range.

I believe all of that is superficial and immaterial.

Jung, yes some of the pricy dry tratments are better but that is a non issue for a cragging rope. cragging implys single or half pitch. If it rains we rap and go home.
Cragging rope = cheapest rope available or model of prefrence not more than $20 above cheapest price available.
Ice/alpine = cheapest super dry in your targeted weight and diameter range.

Sorry. It seemed mostly like a zeke-art conspiracy, which snoop then joined. You didn't start threatening to kill me until more recently.

H Beez? ...no.

« I know the age old argument that all dry treatments wear out so quickly that they might as well all be the same. But nowadays there are differences in dry treatment types to make that argument outdated. Some companies still only apply a coating to the sheath, which is meant to seal the rope from water (this is the old style dry treatment). Others have stepped up to newer methods, like treating individual sheath yarns or treating individual core yarns -- which is vastly superior and doesn't wear out quickly at all. Some tests show that wet ropes can lose up to 70% of their dynamic resistance, and that ropes with treated core yarn resist that effect pretty well. Is that insignificant, too?»

J-ung: do you have any references to these tests? Have they been done on ropes that have had at least a week of climbing on them? Have they been done independently or by the manufacturer trying to sell a dry-treatment? What’s the loss in strength of a dry-treated rope after it’s been exposed to water? Different than that of a comparable untreated rope?

Cheers,
Rob.calm

The presence of water or ice in climbing ropes produces important modifications in their performance, such as:
1. The dynamic resistance of the ropes (i.e. the number of falls held on the Dodero) decreases enormously - down to 30 % of the initial value - when they are soaked with water, be they new or used, normal or waterproofed.

2. After soaking in water a rope becomes 4-5% longer, which can be correlated to the 5-10% increase of the impact force at the first fall on the Dodero machine.

3. The negative effects of water on the dynamic performance of ropes are remarkable even in case of a brief soaking time, even after being splashed under a shower.

4. This behaviour seems to be due to the interaction of water with the crystal structure of the nylon macromolecule (according to literature).

5. Such behaviour lasts as long as the rope is wet, but after drying - in a cool, airy and shady place, as recommended - the rope recovers almost completely its original dynamic performance, even after various soaking/drying cycles.

6. Depending on the drying grade (normal or thorough) the rope can become shorter by 4% to 8%, which seems to be correlated to the decrease by 6-12% of the impact force at the first fall on the Dodero machine.

7. Even in the case of soaked and frozen ropes the dynamic resistance decreases, but less than in wet ropes.

8. Relationship between residual strength and rope diameter: see Appendix 1

In conclusion, a used rope in good conditions, say a rope which can still hold 4-5 falls in the UIAA test on the Dodero machine when dry, might only hold 1 or 2 falls when soaked after a sudden rain fall, as often occurs in the mountains. This may not be too much of a serious problem when climbing in a Kletter-garten, where falls are usually less dangerous and it takes little time to pull the rope down and go home. But mountaineers must demand the maximum security from their rope, even when wet, since it might snap on a rough edge during a fall. This risk is lower when the rope is in good condition. The problem can be less critical when climbing a glacier or an ice-fall, because the ropes are frozen, but even in this case the temperature is very important: if it is goes over 0_C, the rope returns to being wet!

In conclusion, it would be a good idea to change our ropes more often!

LMAO, how sad.

Every had to yank a stiff 11 mm rope through an auto block? It sucks if yoy haven't...

Try it with a 9.1 Joker, and after 14 pitches, your arms will make it clear.

Try using those skinny ropes with a Gri Gri?
I witnessed a belayer struggle to achieve the necessary friction with just such a set up, who was rewarded with a broken neck, and his climber a broken heel.

Typically, you get what you pay for.

My rope gets me women, your rope gets you Zack. To me the difference is huge, to you probably not so much.

Your rope gets you chicks???

Finally someone I think I might be able to learn something from.

Yeah, I'm stuck with old zeke in the meantime.

Dave, I love you (in the I've-never-actually-met-you-except-online, non-romantic way). But you keep ignoring peoples' points here. Slabby just gave you an example of how two ropes' characteristics led to conditions that are different enough that he refuses to use one of them and always picks the other. That seems significant to me.

Here's another difference: dry treatments. Yeah, yeah, I know the age old argument that all dry treatments wear out so quickly that they might as well all be the same. But nowadays there are differences in dry treatment types to make that argument outdated. Some companies still only apply a coating to the sheath, which is meant to seal the rope from water (this is the old style dry treatment). Others have stepped up to newer methods, like treating individual sheath yarns or treating individual core yarns -- which is vastly superior and doesn't wear out quickly at all. Some tests show that wet ropes can lose up to 70% of their dynamic resistance, and that ropes with treated core yarn resist that effect pretty well. Is that insignificant, too?

Even the people who agree with you (including you!) are citing exceptions left and right, all while holding fast to the "all ropes are the same" claim. Okay, so I guess I'll join you... all ropes are the same, except when they're not.

Several edits for clarity and additions.

Troll of the Year Award!

I think though that a post "all cams are the same!" would get even more vitriol going...

congrats, caughtinside, you've done masterful work here!

My favorites are somewhere in between these extremes, but really I don't care.

I just want to point out that having a favorite and not caring is a contradiction. Having a favorite means that you do care. But that's a digression.

So, how am I or anyone else for that matter, supposed to make an INFORMED decision when buying a rope? You don't get to test them out. They all feel more or less the same to me when their in the factory coil. So, like most people, I choose based on price, diameter and weight. Why would I pay $50 more for a rope that is comparable on those characteristics?

Dude yer a moron! You just described a couple unfortunate incidents that are clearly n00b error in choosing the wrong tool (in terms of diameter or belay device) for the job! Who is retarded enough to drag an 11mil rope up a long route? Who is the jackass who can't belay with a skinny rope and puts their partner in danger? Both situations you describe can't be blamed on the rope.

heh heh, thanks dude. But, like all good trolls, it's got a large kernel of truth in it.

BTW, got my 30L v1, LOVE IT! That pack is bad ass! I would never say all packs are the same.

Now climbing shoes on the other hand, all the same. THey're all just leather and rubber, right?

I agree, climbing shoes are all the same.

It's the Climber not the shoe.