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binrat
Oct 1, 2007, 12:57 PM
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Unlike numerous other climbing areas, in Ontario there is almost no organization for sport climb maintenance. There is the Access committee from the ACC and thats about it. Within a few crags close by (Georgian Bay area) there still is 1/4" bolts protecting routes. There are routes with loose bolts, some are so loose that the hole is no longer round. Everytime someone who knows what they are doing, attempts to rebolt the route while not changing the route, the "Citiots" (city idiots) get outraged. At Metcafle rock there are top rope bolts that will pop out if you pull on them in the right direction, and most climbers think that Petzl replaced them (which is untrue).
Anyways WTF, maybe I should move west where they have extreme 5.4 climbing
rant over, flame away
Binrat
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chossmonkey
Oct 1, 2007, 1:43 PM
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binrat
Oct 1, 2007, 2:08 PM
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CM
Nice bolts, especially the last 1. Is that a sleeve thats pulling out? totally bomber
Binrat
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the_climber
Oct 1, 2007, 3:25 PM
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chossmonkey wrote: Anyone want to whip onto these?
These bolts scare me... and I make a habbit of climbing Canadian Rockies Trad when ever possible.... that's is saying a lot! Sorry to say, but if I were to come across a bolt like those and there was a crack that would take a pin.... you bet you ass I would be pounting the steel in there. That's assuming that there isn't a clean placement, and accounting for the fact that I only carry bolting gear when I'm new routing or know it will be used to replace mank bolt.
I would rather look at the prospects of whipping onto gear in the Chossies than whipping on those bolts... especcially that last one... I've pulled bolts like that last one out by hand before. Scarry!
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mosseyoak
Oct 1, 2007, 4:32 PM
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Yeah, those bolts are pretty scary...It's odd that folks don't understand the need to update old gear and old routes. In Ontario where many of the lines were bolted on rappel there is no reason for the climbs to be intentionally dangerous.
Hey chossmonkey, what routes are those pics from? The first image is especially interesting as it has a Fixe hanger. These hangers became availble in Ontario from MEC well after it was clearly understood that only stainless steel hardware should be used. I wonder if someone had a stash of old bolts they were trying to use up.
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chossmonkey
Oct 1, 2007, 5:31 PM
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mosseyoak wrote: Yeah, those bolts are pretty scary...It's odd that folks don't understand the need to update old gear and old routes. In Ontario where many of the lines were bolted on rappel there is no reason for the climbs to be intentionally dangerous. Hey chossmonkey, what routes are those pics from? The first image is especially interesting as it has a Fixe hanger. These hangers became availble in Ontario from MEC well after it was clearly understood that only stainless steel hardware should be used. I wonder if someone had a stash of old bolts they were trying to use up. 
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the_climber
Oct 1, 2007, 5:39 PM
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This reminded me of something from my area a few years back... this:
http://www.gravsports.com/.../rusty_bolts_101.htm
Mind you that one was an old Leeper hanger and self drive bolt, but it seems a good indication of where those mank bolts were/are heading.
(This post was edited by the_climber on Oct 1, 2007, 5:41 PM)
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indeco
Jan 3, 2008, 11:13 PM
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I wish someone would put some adventure back in this sport that I love, the routes that i have loved the most have had hand drilled bolts that i could see down the whole and pins that i could move with my fingers. Its the out doors and everything can't be made safe. Want no hazard? Stay in doors or take up golf.
Its not fair that you take away all my adventure so that you can imposse your standerd on the sport.
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kriso9tails
Jan 3, 2008, 11:36 PM
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indeco wrote: I wish someone would put some adventure back in this sport that I love....
Just place nothing but manky pro and it should be more or less the same thing. Man, where you see problems, I'm just full of solutions!
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indeco
Jan 3, 2008, 11:52 PM
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I've done that to and I've skipped the rope and the pro ..... but your point is valid. Thanks. I just hope the cliffs will have all kinds of climbs, safe, not safe and total deathtraps for years to come.
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binrat
Jan 3, 2008, 11:57 PM
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indeco wrote: I wish someone would put some adventure back in this sport that I love, the routes that i have loved the most have had hand drilled bolts that i could see down the whole and pins that i could move with my fingers. Its the out doors and everything can't be made safe. Want no hazard? Stay in doors or take up golf. Its not fair that you take away all my adventure so that you can imposse your standerd on the sport.
Not trying to impose anything. I normally climb at Metcafle rock and have seen way too many climbers from Toronto that have no clue on how to check bolts for security and expect that everything is bomber like their little gym sport routes. By your statement you have the knowledge and skill to evaluate each bolt / pin along the way. From what I have seen that is a skill that is almost lost around Ontario.
Most of the climbing in Ontario is on Crown land and with pending lawsuits against the Province over a mtn biking accident where the biker was on a cross country ski trail, he is suing the world for his miss-judgement. I for one don't want to see any more access problems in the area.
Cheers
Binrat
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indeco
Jan 4, 2008, 12:02 AM
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Good point Binrat and happy new year
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binrat
Jan 4, 2008, 12:04 AM
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indeco wrote: Good point Binrat and happy new year
Same to you brother
Binrat
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kriso9tails
Jan 4, 2008, 1:35 AM
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indeco wrote: I've done that to and I've skipped the rope and the pro ..... but your point is valid. Thanks. I just hope the cliffs will have all kinds of climbs, safe, not safe and total deathtraps for years to come.
To be perfectly clear, I do sympathize to a certain degree. I've seen a lot of newer, over-bolted lines, and from my perspective I'm wondering what the hell is going on, but a lot of people seem to appreciate this. On a number of those routes I can just skip the excessive bolts anyway, but knowing me, I'll just clip it without thinking out of habit. On top of that, it does feel a bit like the spirit of the sport I thought I knew is dying, but that's just the way it goes it seems. Don't know how long ago I started climbing, but it's been over a decade since I started leading. For some of those that have been climbing much longer than me, I'm sure not everything I do seems Kosher to them, so I guess I'd be a hypocrite to bitch too too much.
It's hard to deny that I don't get a little something out of that 'If I don't get a piece in or if I fuck up this clip I'm gonna deck' feeling. When you know a route is older, some of the pin remnants and various other relics are also worth a little entertainment value. That said, I'm not a huge fan of reaching a poorly placed or rusted out piece of shit bolt in the middle of long sustained cruxes when all I want to do is crank through. Sometimes you shrug and say it's part of the game, and sometimes you say... well, my mother reads this board from time to time, so I won't type that kind of thing here.
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old-bolt-01.jpg
