|
tradclimbing4life
Oct 7, 2001, 7:14 AM
Post #1 of 24
(10685 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 27, 2001
Posts: 2
|
ok i just started ice climbing last year and i have been climbing on rock for the last 4 years.....the question i have for everyone s that can i use the same rope for both or should i get a special rope for on ice?...if i should get special rope can ya tell me what kind i should get?
|
|
|
|
|
daisuke
Oct 7, 2001, 7:20 AM
Post #2 of 24
(10683 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 28, 2001
Posts: 904
|
just as long as it's got a dry treatment you should be ok, I think mamut makes a super dry rope or something of the like
|
|
|
|
|
dean585
Oct 7, 2001, 6:35 PM
Post #3 of 24
(10683 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2001
Posts: 78
|
Black Diamond 9.1 mm Ice Nine rope. All ropes that you are going to use in any alpine setting have to be dry coated, especially when weight is an issue you dotn want to lug around a wet rope that becomes a burden to carry. Also a rope with dry treatment wont have the problem of getting soaking wet and freezing. This single rope is fine for general alpine travel but needs to be doubled up for anything that is steep and might have big falls. Or use a regular dry coated 10 or 11 mm rope. Oh and one other thing, be careful where you put your feet when you have crampons on, ropes are very susceptible to damage from crampons. I learned this the hard way, and you dont want to make the same mistake when the rope costs as much as they do.
|
|
|
|
|
darkside
Oct 7, 2001, 6:53 PM
Post #4 of 24
(10683 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 15, 2001
Posts: 1687
|
After four years you should be thinking of retiring your old rope anyway so consider what you wish to climb on. For ice climbing the danger is that a rope that gets wet will freeze. This can make control of the rope a problem and in some circumstances cause slippage or render some belay devices ineffective. One caution- don't use a gri-gri for ice. Also there is some reduction in strength of a rope when it gets wet. The answer to this lies in one of two directions, some form of dry treatment or a tightly woven sheath. Be aware however that a dry coating tends to wear off over time. Ideally you would have one rope for rock and a dry rope for ice. Another option is to buy an after market product to re-treat your rope each winter.
Give some thought to the rope system you choose. Many ice climbers use double ropes when leading because of lower impact forces, and the fact that you are dancing around your rope with lots of little daggers means there is less chance of severing both. When you start however you will most likely be TR'ing and a single rope will suffice. There is another thread on double ropes in the "trad" forum.
Hope this helps.
|
|
|
|
|
graniteboy
Dec 16, 2001, 3:04 AM
Post #5 of 24
(10683 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 1, 2001
Posts: 1092
|
A 9mm system is good, but you might also want to consider a "twin" rope system. Twin ropes are usually abt 8mm or so, and they obviously weigh less than a pair of 9mm. You use them like a single rope, each rope clipped into each piece. Although you're not "officially" supposed you CAN use them as double ropes (alternating the clipin with first one rope to one piece, then the other rope to the other piece, to keep rope drag down)once you've gotten away from the belay and reduced the potential fall factor. It all depends on whether you want to get into remote alpinism, in which case a twin is the only way, or just climb waterfall ice, in which case a double rope system will do fine. I like twin systems for alaskan climbing, partly cause i like to climb in places you hafta walk a week to get into. Check out this page: http://art1.candor.com/detzel/rope.htm it has a decent explanation of these topics. Always use dry ropes, pay attention to your kicking so you don't end up free soloing inadvertently, and don't lead ice till you've gotten a season under your belt first; It's all dangerous out there in the big bad mountains and stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
rado
Jan 15, 2002, 3:51 PM
Post #6 of 24
(10683 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 7, 2002
Posts: 32
|
If you climb ice a lot, you should consider a second rope just for ice. The dry treatement will wear out if used on rock!
I like double ropes - longer rapels, less friction, more safety...
Best wishes,
Rado
|
|
|
|
|
jimbobimbo
Jun 30, 2009, 4:16 PM
Post #7 of 24
(9576 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 30, 2009
Posts: 6
|
anyone make their own climgbing cords? I heard you can use house hold items and make a stronger safer rope than you can buy. Anyone with experience in this? THanks.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jun 30, 2009, 4:51 PM
Post #8 of 24
(9545 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
jimbobimbo wrote: anyone make their own climgbing cords? I heard you can use house hold items and make a stronger safer rope than you can buy. Anyone with experience in this? THanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
gunkiemike
Jul 2, 2009, 11:29 PM
Post #10 of 24
(9470 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2002
Posts: 2266
|
jimbobimbo wrote: anyone make their own climgbing cords? I heard you can use house hold items and make a stronger safer rope than you can buy. Anyone with experience in this? THanks.
You first...
I hear Spectra is nothing more than oriented polyethylene, so I suggest you stretch all the plastic grocery bags you can find until they're all skinny , then weave 'em together all tight like. That should work just fine, doncha think?
Whaddya mean, you're not gonna do that? C'mon, back a bruthuh up here. Share the code, brah.
|
|
|
|
|
nikmit
Jul 3, 2009, 12:27 PM
Post #11 of 24
(9426 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 10, 2009
Posts: 55
|
[quote][quote "tradclimbing4life"]ok i just started ice climbing last year and i have been climbing on rock for the last 4 years.....the question i have for everyone s that can i use the same rope for both or should i get a special rope for on ice?...if i should get special rope can ya tell me what kind i should get?[/quote][/quote]
If you can afforded it then yes buy yourself a new (twin) rope. I would recommend you Beal Cobra 50m or the Mammut Genesis. As a length: 50m.
|
|
|
|
|
the_climber
Jul 3, 2009, 4:21 PM
Post #12 of 24
(9394 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 9, 2003
Posts: 6142
|
nikmit wrote: tradclimbing4life wrote: ok i just started ice climbing last year and i have been climbing on rock for the last 4 years.....the question i have for everyone s that can i use the same rope for both or should i get a special rope for on ice?...if i should get special rope can ya tell me what kind i should get? If you can afforded it then yes buy yourself a new (twin) rope. I would recommend you Beal Cobra 50m or the Mammut Genesis. As a length: 50m.
Um, ya... original post: Oct 7, 2001
I think the guy got a rope after 7 and a half years 
Man your quotes were messed up. But 50m... seriously????!!!!! in this day and age????? I know you can still get 50m ropes, but I'm not even sure where you would get easily without buying a 60 and chopping it down, or getting a beefy wall rope. 60m is the standard right now, though for anything longer 70m is the new 60m... and there are those of us using 80m ropes for long climbs on both rock and ice.
50m ropes are out unless you've cut it down, climb really short routes or are using it for classic alpinism.
|
|
|
|
|
qtm
Jul 3, 2009, 8:59 PM
Post #13 of 24
(9359 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 8, 2004
Posts: 548
|
jimbobimbo wrote: anyone make their own climgbing cords? I heard you can use house hold items and make a stronger safer rope than you can buy. Anyone with experience in this? THanks.
I make my own cord, but not for climbing. I make cord from various materials, including cotton, linen, hemp, Dacron B50, even toilet paper.
I make twisted cord. Made from B50, a 11mm diameter cord would be as strong as a steel cable... and act like one if you fell on it. It would transfer all the energy of the fall directly into your body, shattering bones and rupturing organs.
It might be possible to weave a rope in a similar fashion as a climbing rope, so that it has some dynamic properties. But without the fancy weaving machines, it would take a tremendous amount of effort. You would never get the consistency or reliability of the weaving machines.
With materials found around the house? Well, Mythbusters showed that you can make a rope that will hold body weight with hair and toilet paper. But a fall can generate a *lot* more force than just body weight, they're rated to take 25x body weight. I have no idea how thick a toilet paper rope would have to be, probably a few inches thick.
You could make a rope from weaving together used shopping bags. Would it be usable as a climbing rope? No, it would not have any dynamic properties. It would be so fat it wouldn't fit in a belay device. And it would probably weigh 40lbs.
So no, you can't make a climbing rope out of materials found around the home.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jul 6, 2009, 12:35 PM
Post #15 of 24
(9261 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
qtm wrote: You could make a rope from weaving together used shopping bags. Would it be usable as a climbing rope? No, it would not have any dynamic properties. It would be so fat it wouldn't fit in a belay device. And it would probably weigh 40lbs.
It was my impression that a great deal of the dynamic properties of the rope came from the weaving pattern, not the material. After all, compare goldline (nylon) with modern kernmantle (nylon) ropes.
|
|
|
|
|
qtm
Jul 6, 2009, 1:52 PM
Post #16 of 24
(9236 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 8, 2004
Posts: 548
|
bill413 wrote: qtm wrote: You could make a rope from weaving together used shopping bags. Would it be usable as a climbing rope? No, it would not have any dynamic properties. It would be so fat it wouldn't fit in a belay device. And it would probably weigh 40lbs. It was my impression that a great deal of the dynamic properties of the rope came from the weaving pattern, not the material. After all, compare goldline (nylon) with modern kernmantle (nylon) ropes.
Yes, that's basically the idea.
Weaving a twisted rope out of poly-bags, you need to keep the twists tight so the friction holds the short bags together.
The core of a kernmantle rope is what gives the rope dynamic properties. It would be much easier to weave a kernmantle rope with short poly-bags as opposed to manipulating two dozen spools of thread.
I don't think you can make the core loose enough to allow dynamic properties while not allowing the bags to pull apart. If you twist the core cords enough to keep the bags together, then you're not going to get any dynamic properties. At any rate, it's going to be a pretty fat rope, too big to fit in the belay device.
If you slice the bags into thin strips, you might have a better chance, but I still don't think you can make a rope with dynamic properties that won't easily split.
|
|
|
|
|
granite_grrl
Jul 6, 2009, 3:55 PM
Post #17 of 24
(9211 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 25, 2002
Posts: 15084
|
Ah, but he posted in a thread that only 6 years old in that forum. Here, he has posted to a thread that's 8 years old, and thus, superior.
(This post was edited by granite_grrl on Jul 6, 2009, 4:48 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jul 6, 2009, 5:02 PM
Post #19 of 24
(9184 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
granite_grrl wrote: Ah, but he posted in a thread that only 6 years old in that forum. Here, he has posted to a thread that's 8 years old, and thus, superior.
Ah, you're right. This is a more impressive revival.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jul 6, 2009, 5:10 PM
Post #20 of 24
(9181 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
qtm wrote: bill413 wrote: qtm wrote: You could make a rope from weaving together used shopping bags. Would it be usable as a climbing rope? No, it would not have any dynamic properties. It would be so fat it wouldn't fit in a belay device. And it would probably weigh 40lbs. It was my impression that a great deal of the dynamic properties of the rope came from the weaving pattern, not the material. After all, compare goldline (nylon) with modern kernmantle (nylon) ropes. Yes, that's basically the idea. Weaving a twisted rope out of poly-bags, you need to keep the twists tight so the friction holds the short bags together. The core of a kernmantle rope is what gives the rope dynamic properties. It would be much easier to weave a kernmantle rope with short poly-bags as opposed to manipulating two dozen spools of thread. I don't think you can make the core loose enough to allow dynamic properties while not allowing the bags to pull apart. If you twist the core cords enough to keep the bags together, then you're not going to get any dynamic properties. At any rate, it's going to be a pretty fat rope, too big to fit in the belay device. If you slice the bags into thin strips, you might have a better chance, but I still don't think you can make a rope with dynamic properties that won't easily split.
I'm not so concerned about the thickness - in that Munter Hitch or body belay could be used. In fact, the body belay would be in the spirit of the whole homemade rope idea (or build your own large capacity belay device).
If we sliced the bags up in a spiral or back & forth pattern, we could get strips that were quite long. I think you're right that short strips would require a very tight twist, as well as many strips of bags, resulting in something very fat. By using the longer strips, we could get away with less thickness.
What if we used some wheat glue to join the bag strips together?
|
|
|
|
|
qtm
Jul 6, 2009, 7:31 PM
Post #21 of 24
(9146 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 8, 2004
Posts: 548
|
bill413 wrote: If we sliced the bags up in a spiral or back & forth pattern, we could get strips that were quite long. I think you're right that short strips would require a very tight twist, as well as many strips of bags, resulting in something very fat. By using the longer strips, we could get away with less thickness. What if we used some wheat glue to join the bag strips together?
To get strength from the thin strips, you have to twist them to make thread. Twisting would keep ends together so you wouldn't need any glue. But then you get back to the spools of thread and the management of all those threads while trying to weave. It's possible, but even just cutting the strips would be highly time consuming.
|
|
|
|
|
bill413
Jul 6, 2009, 10:48 PM
Post #22 of 24
(9130 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 19, 2004
Posts: 5674
|
qtm wrote: To get strength from the thin strips, you have to twist them to make thread. Twisting would keep ends together so you wouldn't need any glue. But then you get back to the spools of thread and the management of all those threads while trying to weave. It's possible, but even just cutting the strips would be highly time consuming.
Oh, I fully agree that it would be time consuming. But, as a rainy day activity, it would at least be somewhat climbing related. And the smug satisfaction you'd get falling on a rope you made yourself? You could be proud of your crater.
So when you talk about the spools of thread problem - you mean the "raw" strips or do you mean the already twisted bags? Maybe we could just drape the threads in another set of bags, sort of like a rope bag, instead of spooling them?
|
|
|
|
|
the_climber
Jul 8, 2009, 5:34 PM
Post #24 of 24
(9014 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 9, 2003
Posts: 6142
|
nikmit wrote: In reply to: I have somewhat of a rope collection like many skiers have a quiver of skis. All are for specific purposes. Lucky you- I can hardly afford a pair of twins 
It's been built up over a fair amount of time... and involved a couple pro-deals. Otherwise it would not have happened. Some of it also relates to neccessity and the fact that I used to lead/guide Caving.
|
|
|
|
|
|
