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penguinator


Oct 23, 2007, 4:09 PM
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Solo Top Roping
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I would like dedicate a good portion of my training time on cracks of various sizes, and there is no way I can find a belayer for that purpose (or for 4 days a week for that matter).

Has anyone used the Top rope soloing method, where you regularly clip into pre-tied loops in the rope? Then you would periodically un-clip the last loop to make room?

Anchors are not a problem, there are plenty of big trees at the top, and I will be using static rope hanging over the edge with rope protectors to then tie into with my Dynamic.


shoo


Oct 23, 2007, 4:27 PM
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Re: [penguinator] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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I apologize in advance for not actually answering the OPs question, but here it goes.

Alternative method I use regularly:
Get a grigri. Set up a top rope and fix the line. Clip the grigri into the rope and harness like you are belaying so it arrests a fall (TEST IT FIRST). Every 10 feet or so, tie a figure 8 on the rope hanging below you and clip it to your belay loop with a locker as a backup.

tip: You will be in a situation where you will have only one hand and the rope won't easily pull through the grigri. Pull the rope above your belay device down and clamp onto it with your teeth. Then use your free hand to pull the slack through the grigri.

No second rope needed, no rope loop tying necessary, built in lowering device.


(This post was edited by shoo on Oct 23, 2007, 4:28 PM)


shimanilami


Oct 23, 2007, 4:38 PM
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Re: [penguinator] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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Two possibilities:

1) Learn how to use the Search function on this site

and / or

2) Go practice your trolling somewhere else.


live2climb


Oct 23, 2007, 4:51 PM
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Re: [penguinator] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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embrace the mini traction from petzl
for super bad ass rope soloing
just fix your dynamic rope pop on the minitraction and tie a water bottle to the bottom of your rope to keep a little weight on it and start climbing
No pulling up rope no cliping any loops just climb and the traction will follow you up and always catch your fall i use this system veary veary often and have tryed silent partners gri gri and the soloest and this is the shit


AZrockclimber1988


Oct 23, 2007, 4:58 PM
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Re: [penguinator] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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I personal use the Grigri, but I have heard of the mini traxion and the Petzl Rescue Ascender.


penguinator


Oct 23, 2007, 11:18 PM
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Re: [shimanilami] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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No this is not a troll, and yes I used the search function and did not find anything really useful.

I bought a new set of cams, and really cant afford to buy anything for a while. So no traxions, silent partners, or modded grigris. Has anyone actually tried the method I am talking about?


mxracer8


Oct 24, 2007, 12:38 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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you can use a gri gri on a stationary rope and just belay yourself up as you go. make sure you tie a knot in the rope every 10 feet or so below the gri gri as you climb for a backup. you can also get a soloest and climb with that. both work well.


airdo


Oct 24, 2007, 1:01 AM
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Re: [mxracer8] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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I've done many rope soloing methods including the multiple loops clip in, the sliding clove hitch, and the gri-gri. But by far the best method is the Petzl Mini-Traxion.

If you are serious about your training, and safety, you should consider the best method for the task. Since you have plenty of natural anchors on top why not sell a couple of your new cams and purchase a Mini-Traxion? It's only your health at stake ...


penguinator


Oct 24, 2007, 1:02 AM
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Re: [mxracer8] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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Crazy Ill say this again!

Has anyone used the method, where there are NO devices. You pre-tie loops (I would use alpine butterfly loops) in your FIXED rope, every few metres.

You climb up, clip the first loop into your harness, and keep climbing. When you get to the next loop, you clip that one into your harness the same as the last one, then you unclip the first loop.
Then you repeat until the top. Walk off, and repeat as much as you want.
If you fall, the last loop catches you, so its a potential 2-3meter fall, depending on how many loops you put in. No devices to worry about if they engage or not.

Now has anyone used THIS particular method? Its not a troll post, and yes I used the search function but to no avail.

Its the cheapest option for me, and also the easiest. All the climbs I will do have a walk-on/off, so I can easily rig a bomber anchor from the top of the climb using BIG trees, with a length of 10mm static, and a 11mm dynamic.

________________________________________

EDIT: Thanks Airdo, how was the multiple loop method? I will be looking at a full sized traxion for my next purchase, as I will need it for hauling anyway. Up until then though I will be using the multiple loops. Any pointers or tips for it? What problems did you encounter?


(This post was edited by penguinator on Oct 24, 2007, 1:05 AM)


flint


Oct 24, 2007, 1:24 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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penguinator wrote:

Crazy Ill say this again!

Has anyone used the method, where there are NO devices. You pre-tie loops (I would use alpine butterfly loops) in your FIXED rope, every few metres.

You climb up, clip the first loop into your harness, and keep climbing. When you get to the next loop, you clip that one into your harness the same as the last one, then you unclip the first loop.
Then you repeat until the top. Walk off, and repeat as much as you want.
If you fall, the last loop catches you, so its a potential 2-3meter fall, depending on how many loops you put in. No devices to worry about if they engage or not.

Now has anyone used THIS particular method? Its not a troll post, and yes I used the search function but to no avail.

Its the cheapest option for me, and also the easiest. All the climbs I will do have a walk-on/off, so I can easily rig a bomber anchor from the top of the climb using BIG trees, with a length of 10mm static, and a 11mm dynamic.

________________________________________

EDIT: Thanks Airdo, how was the multiple loop method? I will be looking at a full sized traxion for my next purchase, as I will need it for hauling anyway. Up until then though I will be using the multiple loops. Any pointers or tips for it? What problems did you encounter?

Tip: If you are planning on unclipping the previous loop, use two biners and alternate which one you clip to. IE, clip first loop to left biner, come to the next biner, clip in the right biner first, then unclip the left biner. If you don't want to unclip everytime, just put a 3 or 4 loops on one biner, then start with the next and then you can drop the first 3 to 4 loops of the other biner.

This is important so that you are never unclipped from the only life line.

j-


cornstateclimber


Oct 24, 2007, 3:48 AM
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Re: [flint] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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also just make sure the rope you are using to climb on is a dynamic rope, with 3 meters between loops its way to much impact for static.


reg


Oct 24, 2007, 5:28 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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i've never done this myself although i am aware of the process.
my gut is is sayin i would want two points of pro or some sort of back up. maybe a "via-feratta" type of progression. girth hicthing a 4' runner to your swami as a trailing back-up connection. it's clipped to a lower "pro loop". your belay loop runner is clipped to the middle pro loop then as you climb to the next pro loop, un-clip the 4' runner from the lower pro and re-attact it to the middle pro. un-clip the short runner on your belay loop and re-attach it to the top pro loop. this way your connected to two loops 90% of the time.
thoughts?

edit: credit to flint - should have read his thraed


(This post was edited by reg on Oct 24, 2007, 5:32 AM)


dawid72


Oct 24, 2007, 6:41 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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Here's a description of one possible setup with some illustrations:

http://www.climbing.com/...techtips/ttsport253/

Cheers


Partner xtrmecat


Oct 24, 2007, 7:23 AM
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Re: [dawid72] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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  Dawid72 is as close to a good system as I have ever trusted. I climb lots and almost always solo. The grigri is not a solo device, check out Petzls literature. If you wish to ask then you should consider this, an internet forum is probably not a very good place to get the information that your life depends on.
With that out of the way there is a reason not to climb with your sole fall protection at your "Belay" loop not being a Locker. There is a reason we "tie in". I would never climb solo with your system but I choose to manage my risk much on the safer side. Minimum of two systems or pieces at all times. Also the learning curve to real climbing steepens when solo leading. Placing pro, clipping it, managing your fall protection, and climbing adds to what real climbing is. When I climb with a belayer I find that system to be so simple and quick that I climb quit a bit higher in grade and enjoyment.
Solo is rewarding and fun and a great way to learn. It is in my opinion the second most dangerous part of climbing, so I do not want to skimp because of cost or compromise safety because it is "what is easy".
Bob


primus


Oct 24, 2007, 7:32 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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penguinator wrote:
I will be looking at a full sized traxion for my next purchase, as I will need it for hauling anyway.

FWIW, I've heard that it's not the best idea to use an ascender that has teeth as it can damage the sheath of your rope pretty badly if you fall on it. If you're constantly feeding rope through so you don't build up any slack, I'm guessing it'd be fine.

One other thing to consider is how easily the rope feeds through the device. The only method I've used is an Ushba and it worked quite well; I've also heard the Petzl Microcender is nice, but have not experience with that one. Hope this helps.


WVUCLMBR


Oct 24, 2007, 8:03 AM
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Re: [dawid72] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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I used the tech tip along with my Trango cinch and with a little tweaking (chest "harness" needed to keep cinch upright) and practice managed to set up on a climb and do training laps on it. The dynamic rope w/alpine butterfly's serves more as a safety backup and as of yet I have not needed it as the Cinch has caught all falls. I would be afraid to fall on a climb just using the rope w/alpine butterflies. Ps. I only clip the backup rope on the sketchy spots of the route.


bob_54b


Oct 24, 2007, 8:15 AM
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Re: [penguinator] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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I use a couple of jumars...they move up the rope easily so you can keep them snug on you. Recommend highly that you tie into the rope directly at intervals in case, well, just in case.

Tried a Wren soloist once. They work great in the lead but not so great top roping, although they are very securely locked on to the rope...better than a pair of jumars. On top rope it's more difficult to pull the rope through the solosit device.

Be careful...always be meticulous in your set-up and anchor, make sure the rope will not wear through or severe over any edges above you and constantly pay attention to the attachment of the ascenders to the rope.


antiqued


Oct 25, 2007, 12:09 PM
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Re: [penguinator] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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penguinator wrote:

Crazy Ill say this again!

Has anyone used the method, where there are NO devices. You pre-tie loops (I would use alpine butterfly loops) in your FIXED rope, every few metres.

OK

I've used it, and consider it safe, if done properly. However, I found it unenjoyable. The clips must be very frequent near the ground, if the climbing is difficult. These clips can be awkward, and interfere with the 'joy of movement'. On face climbs, you may want to dial in the exact location of the loops, or else you find yourself on the equivalent of a malevolently bolted sport route. For me, there was only a relatively narrow range of difficulty that it seemed suited for. Harder climbs needed a better belay method, and easier ones could be soloed.

In addition, falling on overhanging terrain is a pain, unless you have loops big enough to stand in and often enough to grab, or additional ascending gear, which must be passed over each knot. The double ropes illustrated in the CLimbing Tech Tip can be of use either way.


sticky_fingers


Oct 25, 2007, 1:23 PM
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Re: [antiqued] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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I'll throw my 2cents in..I use a Petzl Basic (it's designed for TR soloing) and it's not THAT expensive--below $40. Just be sure to have some weight hanging from the bottom of the rope to keep it taught, so it goes through the device easily.

Other than that, your idea should work. However, it seems like it would be very difficult to get the spacing of the knots to line up with holds good enough to clip/unclip.


crankenstein


Oct 25, 2007, 1:36 PM
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This is a good example of what makes this site scarey to some. The first and foremost comment that should have been made from the first reply is:

Don't do this method with a static rope!!!


sticky_fingers


Oct 25, 2007, 2:06 PM
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Good point crank.


mtengaio


Oct 25, 2007, 2:20 PM
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This method will work, I've done it before using the butterfly knot every 5-10 feet. However, I found it to be a pain the ass to clip and unclip, but I think that was becuase of the angle of the climb itself. So go for it and just make sure to double check your system, and test it out a few feet off the ground the first time.

I'm in the market for a Petzl Shunt to TR solo, has anyone here used one for this purpose?


sandstone


Oct 25, 2007, 2:40 PM
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Re: [crankenstein] Solo Top Roping [In reply to]
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crankenstein wrote:
This is a good example of what makes this site scarey to some. The first and foremost comment that should have been made from the first reply is: Don't do this method with a static rope!!!

Look closely at the original post, he's only using static (rope, webbing, whatever) to go from the anchor over the edge. He's climbing on a dynamic.

As for the knotted rope system, I agree that it's a pain in the arse -- it'll suck the enjoyment right out of the climbing.

If you're going to be on overhanging terrain, I think a Gri-Gri is the way to go because you're pre-rigged for rappel. I've used both a Rescucender and a gri-gri (and some other systems), but the GriGri is definately my favorite (only time I use the thing). That tech tip is right on the money with the second rope with knots you can clip into, as a backup in case your Gri-Gri doesn't grab.


cameltoe


Oct 25, 2007, 3:08 PM
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if you can't afford specific gear I'd go with a prussic/backmans or similar and then tie knots as you go behind it..less of a winger when you fall..

personally I'd look for a more like-minded partner... they are out there.. somewhere.. I know plenty of people keen to climb crack in my hood ..


fng


Oct 25, 2007, 5:13 PM
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I have used several methods I felt comfortable with. The butterfly loops are fine. I just looked at the constant clipping similar to placing pro and clipping it. I don't clip to my harness though. I used two dif colored runners hitched to my harness with a locker on each one(auto locks work great hear), I find it easier to clip and unclip. I just leap frog the clips so while I am actually climbing I am clipped in 2x. I feel very free to move, especially with out all my trad gear hanging off me.

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