Forums: Climbing Information: Technique & Training:
Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Technique & Training

Premier Sponsor:

 


timl


Dec 5, 2007, 7:54 AM
Post #1 of 16 (2751 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 8, 2004
Posts: 48

Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I've been doing this training routine for about 8 weeks now and I like it, but I'm feeling pretty tired and need a change. So this week I'm doing nothing except eating, relaxing and looking into ways to change my routine. I live in a place where I can climb year round so I never train for a peaks. This is my normal weekly training schedule. Take a moment to look at it and give me your ideas on how I can change it.

Sat/Sun: Climb

Mon: Rest

Tue:
Afternoon - 30 min run, light weights and abs (Total 1 hour)
Evening - 15 to 30 min bouldering warm-up. Fingerboard with six grips: big pinch, deep 2 finger pocket (index/middle), deep 2 finger pocket (middle/ring), deep 3 finger pocket, full pad crimper. sloper. On each grip I do sets of 10 sec x 5 sec rest for five sets with 3-5 min rest between sets. All of this is done with 15 kilos hanging from the harness. (Total 1 Hour)

Wednesday: Endurance Day (2 to 3 hours)
1 30-45 minute traverse vertical to slightly overhanging without coming off the wall but resting on big holds when the pump get too big.

2nd 30-45 min traverse in the cave on bigger holds resting on big holds when the pump gets too big.

Last week for the fist time I added a 4x4 (easy to medium difficulty) in the middle of the 2 traverses.

Thur:
Afternoon: 30 min run, light weights and abs
Evening: 15 to 30 min bouldering warm up (easy problems. Caumpus board with full pad rungs. 8 to 10 reps of eight to ten rungs only ascending. Sometimes I'll descend and this will count for two reps. I usually give myself 3 to 5 minutes rest between reps.

I like doing 4x4's and 6x6's but the problem is that the gyms where I live don't have set boulder problems. You pretty just make up your own. So it involoves a big time investment. The two gyms that I go to are really bouldering gyms, so training on roped routes is really out of the question.

With changing up my routine I'm not looking to make a huge jump in terms for reaching a higher grade. In terms of my climbing style I like to onsite and put down my hardest projects in four to six goes. Any project that takes longer than 8 goes has to be dam good or its just too drawn out. Maybe I need to change this mentality.

Please give me any ideas or feedback that you have. The more the better! Thanks for anything and everything!


borntorocku


Dec 5, 2007, 10:15 AM
Post #2 of 16 (2726 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 88

Re: [timl] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Here are some ideas:

campus (best method for power)

add front levers.

I workout after I climb not before. I want to be fresh because climbing is a fine motor skill.

I climb at home gyms that don't tape and still do 4X4. I just write down the holds that make up the problems. I drop the rest time or change one route each session. Do them two ways:

1. (4 problems back to back then rest the same time period) X 4
2. (1-short rest-2-short rest-3-short rest-4-long rest) X 4

Intervals work well for "endurance." Try one problem every 5 minutes for 1.5 hours. 18 problems per workout.


shimanilami


Dec 5, 2007, 10:22 AM
Post #3 of 16 (2717 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 24, 2006
Posts: 2043

Re: [timl] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Check out "Training for Climbing" or "A Self Coached Climber" for structured routines and also specific exercise suggestions.


fresh


Dec 10, 2007, 5:12 PM
Post #4 of 16 (2581 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 6, 2007
Posts: 1199

Re: [borntorocku] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

borntorocku wrote:
I workout after I climb not before. I want to be fresh because climbing is a fine motor skill.
if you climb while fatigued, you'll build muscle memory faster. you don't have to perform well to get a good training day in, even though it sucks sometimes.


rockprodigy


Dec 12, 2007, 10:05 AM
Post #5 of 16 (2529 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2002
Posts: 1540

Re: [fresh] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

fresh wrote:
if you climb while fatigued, you'll build muscle memory faster.

That's the first time I've heard that...it's intriquing. Do you have any references you can site that provide evidence of that, or is that just your personal experience?


Valarc


Dec 12, 2007, 10:13 AM
Post #6 of 16 (2522 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 19, 2007
Posts: 1473

Re: [fresh] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

fresh wrote:
if you climb while fatigued, you'll build muscle memory faster.

Of course, if you're building muscle memory of sloppy, inefficient movement, you're just going to develop bad habits which you'll have to break later if you ever want to improve your technique.


borntorocku


Dec 16, 2007, 10:20 PM
Post #7 of 16 (2415 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 88

Re: [Valarc] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

fresh wrote:
if you climb while fatigued, you'll build muscle memory faster.

That might be true. Since I am only a 12a/b climber, I am still learning proper technique. I think it is a better idea to learn new motor programs fresh.


(This post was edited by borntorocku on Dec 16, 2007, 10:23 PM)


fresh


Dec 17, 2007, 1:45 AM
Post #8 of 16 (2391 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 6, 2007
Posts: 1199

Re: [Valarc] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Valarc wrote:
fresh wrote:
if you climb while fatigued, you'll build muscle memory faster.

Of course, if you're building muscle memory of sloppy, inefficient movement, you're just going to develop bad habits which you'll have to break later if you ever want to improve your technique.
from Eric Horst's How to Climb 5.12, page 40:

In reply to:
Fatigued Skill Practice

Earlier I pointed out that it's best to practice new skills while you're fresh. Interestingly, you can increase your command of known skills through practice during states of moderate fatigue. This is a powerful concept you'll want to put to work immediately--but be careful not to misuse it.

Research has shown that beyond the initial successful trials of a skill, practice should be performed with variable conditions and levels of fatigue. This will increase your rate of failure at doing certain moves, but performance isn't your goal, practice is! The benefits of this practice, no matter how poor, will become evident in the future. Besides, this concept actually makes good sense. If you want the ability to stick a dead point in the midst of a dicey lead climb while pumped, you'd better log some deadpoints in various states of fatigue during practice.

Here's the best approach. Use the first thirty minutes of your workout (while fresh) to train new skills, then move on to chalking up some milege on a variety of routes. After an hour or so, or when moderately fatigued, attempt several reps of recently acquired moves of sequences. As fatigue increases, finish up with some reps of sequences or boulder problems you have more completely mastered.

In the context of a two-hour climbing-gym workout, this rule emphasizes the benefit of squeezing in a greater volume of climbing with only brief rests over doing just a few performance reps with extensive rest. The long rests and performance climbing my make you look better, but the greater volume of practice will make you climb better!

Finally, don't confuse practice while muscularly fatigued with practice while tired or injured. As with any training method, you can go overboard and end up getting negative results. Sixty to ninety minutes of actual climbing time is optimal.
bottom line: do climbs you are familiar with while tired, not new ones, for the very reason you mentioned.


both


Dec 20, 2007, 3:12 PM
Post #9 of 16 (2311 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 18, 2007
Posts: 5

Re: [fresh] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

what do you think you gain from doing light weights? exept sved(?) on your forehead and in your armpits...
muscles grows when doing 8-12 heavy reps, and gets stronger(cns) when doin 1-3 reps a set

i would surgest do heavy weights for 10 reps 5 sets per bodypart(muscle).
and every 3rd month train 1-3 rep for 5-10 sets 3 days a week, for 4 weeks, then lay low for 3 days and test the maximum you can lift 1 rep.
then over again.


raymondjeffrey


Dec 20, 2007, 3:30 PM
Post #10 of 16 (2303 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 2, 2004
Posts: 361

Re: [both] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I concur with borntorocku. Climb while fresh and lift afterwards.


doze


Dec 24, 2007, 8:08 PM
Post #11 of 16 (2188 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 31, 2007
Posts: 51

Re: [timl] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

There's a general rule that i've heard a lot from different climbers and that works well for me too.

Do not mix strength and endurance training.

By mixing I mean training strength one day and training endurance the next day. Your body just won't understand what do you want from it and what should one improve - your muscles or your heart or circulatory system of your arms.

Strategy may be: 2 weeks of strength exercise (campus, hard bouldering, etc), 2 weeks of endurance (long easy routes, long traverses etc. running or biking), 2 weeks of strength/endurance (hard routes), 2 weeks of rest.
Generally everything is up to you.
For example, I train 2 weeks strength/endurance, then strength, then endurance and rest. And sometimes it might be 2 weeks, sometimes 3 or only 1. Depends on how I feel.

Check out "Performance Rock Climbing" book. It has a lot about this stuff.


timl


Dec 25, 2007, 4:15 AM
Post #12 of 16 (2145 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 8, 2004
Posts: 48

Re: [doze] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I agree. Strengh and endurance doesn't work too well. One thing that I've started to do is spread out my workouts, especially weight training.

Mon: Weights
Tue: Cardio, bouldering warm up and then fingerboard.
Wednesday: 30 to 50 minute traverse for endurance, 15 min rest then a 4x4 or 6x6. Light weights
Thursdays: Cardio and Campus Routine.

The only day that I could add more is Wednesday and this would be a depletion day. But I'm not sure if this is good because it doesn't give me time to recover before the weekend.


alexoverhere


Dec 25, 2007, 9:18 AM
Post #13 of 16 (2115 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2007
Posts: 57

Re: [timl] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Firstly, are you sure that your Wednesday 30-45 min. traverses are local endurance and not power-endurance? Did the 4x4 feel a lot more pumpy than your traverses or about the same? If the former, then the traverses are local endurance; if the latter, they're power-endurance.

In either case, your weekly sequence needs work. The ordering of training days should be power (P), then power-endurance (PE), then local endurance (E), and then rest (R), according to Goddard & Neumann (Performance Rock Climbing). They outline additional constraints:

1. Power-oriented days must be separated by at least two rest days: P,...,R,R,...,P.

2. Up to two power-endurance-oriented days can follow one another. For each power-endurance day, you must schedule a rest day. That is: PE,...,R or PE,PE,...,R,R.

3. You can have up to six days of local endurance-oriented training followed by one or two rest days: E,E,E,R,R,...

Putting all this together, you end up with sequences such as:

week 1: P, PE, PE, E, R, R
week 2: P, PE, PE, E, R, R
...

You don't want to have sequences like E,PE or PE,P, because power must precede power-endurance, and power-endurance must precede local endurance. Currently, your schedule looks like this (I'm assuming sat-sun are local endurance-oriented, and that Friday is a rest day):

Sat-Friday: E,E,R,P,E,P,R

The problematic sequence is in bold. If Wednesday is more of a power-endurance day, your schedule looks like this:

Sat-Friday: E,E,R,P,PE,P,R

In either case, you want to move your second power day to an earlier position in the week. That is,

Sat-Friday: E,E,R,P,P,E,R

or

Sat-Friday: E,E,R,P,P,PE,R

Also, I would move the light weight lifting and/or running to after your climbing workout (or to rest days, if you want) as they will aid in recovery.


fresh


Dec 25, 2007, 10:14 AM
Post #14 of 16 (2100 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 6, 2007
Posts: 1199

Re: [alexoverhere] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

alexoverhere wrote:
week 1: P, PE, PE, E, R, R
week 2: P, PE, PE, E, R, R
did you miss a day, or is this 4 days on and 3 days off in a row? I think you may be better off fitting in one of the rest days in between one of the workout days.

someone else said you should work each of these groups for one or two full weeks, which is a terrible idea. not only do you not get enough rest but you'll lose fitness in each area after two weeks off.

also, remember to listen to your body. some people can't go hard more than two days per week, some people can manage five or six days per week.


alexoverhere


Dec 26, 2007, 4:37 PM
Post #15 of 16 (2023 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2007
Posts: 57

Re: [fresh] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I shouldn't have labeled those as week 1 / week 2.. it was just an example of a 6-day repeating schedule. But yeah, moving one of the rest days is fine.


Partner supersonick


Dec 26, 2007, 5:35 PM
Post #16 of 16 (2009 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 18, 2002
Posts: 157

Re: [timl] Help Me Mix Up My Training Routine/ Need New Ideas [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Tim,

If you want to make a serious leap in skill level then come to the states and spend a winter at Hueco Tanks my friend. At least three months. No better training program out there.


Forums : Climbing Information : Technique & Training

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook