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cervicornis
Jan 4, 2008, 9:04 AM
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Strange question, but hopefully someone here can help me with this one...
I used to drive with my 70 lb. golden retriever loose in the front seat. After a recent accident (minor) I now use a dog harness and have him tethered to one of the anchors in the back seat.
His harness is made from safety belt material, and I have been using some nylon slings as a tether along with a couple of carabiners. The slings are 24" long so there is a fair amount of slack. I am worried that in the event of a serious car accident, this harness system won't really do much good since everything will be shock-loaded. I feel confident that the slings and carabiners will hold, but worry about the harness itself, the anchor point, and most importantly, the force that my dog will be subjected to.
I've considered adding a screamer to help reduce the force, but am wondering if it will still be dangerous? Can anyone here shed some light on this situation? Thanks a bunch.
Jason
(This post was edited by cervicornis on Jan 4, 2008, 9:07 AM)
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reno
Jan 4, 2008, 1:15 PM
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By "anchor in the back" I assume you're talking about a pickup truck bed?
There are dog seat-belt things that you can buy at the local Pet Smart or PetCo. THIS is a small, but they make 'em large, too (I had one for a 70# lab mix, a 65# Siberian Husky, and have one for my 55# shepherd.)
Put that on, run the seat belt through the designed loop, and let the dog ride on a seat. They can lay down on the seat while wearing it.
Can't give any first hand input on how well they perform in a crash, thankfully, but it seems solid.
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zenelky
Jan 4, 2008, 1:48 PM
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What type of vehicle? It seems that 24" wouldn't do a whole lot if your vehicle is a regular 2 or 4 door car and you're just tying him up to the hooks in the back seat (the ones placed there for baby seats?).
I haven't found or heard of anything that works well for dogs. Mostly, the harness style seat-belts aren't that great because it restricts the dogs movement too much (if it's any longer than it won't be effective) and there's nothing worse than a 70 lb uncomfortable, whimpering dog in the car with ya, right?
How about some sort of kennel to put in the back seat and then tie up the kennel? In our truck, the dogs usually sleep behind the seats in the 'extended' area and I feel they'd be pretty safe unless the truck rolled  . But they're only 30 lbs...big difference.
As another note. I would recommend a microchip in your pup as well. I had a good friend who was in an accident with 2 of her dogs in the truck with her. The paramedics took her to the hospital, but just left the dogs behind. When she got back, 1 of the dogs stuck around waiting for her, the other dog returned to the crash site 2-3 days after the crash. If animal control picks up your dog, he's more likely to be returned. I figure that it costs a lot, but if 1 time it brings my dogs home, it's more than worth it's weight in gold.
Good luck!
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joshy8200
Jan 4, 2008, 2:36 PM
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zenelky wrote: If animal control picks up your dog, he's more likely to be returned. I figure that it costs a lot, but if 1 time it brings my dogs home, it's more than worth it's weight in gold. Good luck!
Sorry...I can't be more help on the anchoring question. The post about the harnesses at Petsmart or Petco is probably your best bet. I would wonder how well those work, because the one I've seen with my fiance's little dog doesn't seem to secure the dog into position (like an anchor that has extension in it). So I would think the dog could be subjected to some rough shock loading forces.
But with regards to microchipping your pet...that's cheap! My dog got picked up once by animal control. Along with the $50 fine they microchipped my dog for $15.
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Arrogant_Bastard
Jan 4, 2008, 5:49 PM
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cervicornis wrote: Strange question, but hopefully someone here can help me with this one... I used to drive with my 70 lb. golden retriever loose in the front seat. After a recent accident (minor) I now use a dog harness and have him tethered to one of the anchors in the back seat. His harness is made from safety belt material, and I have been using some nylon slings as a tether along with a couple of carabiners. The slings are 24" long so there is a fair amount of slack. I am worried that in the event of a serious car accident, this harness system won't really do much good since everything will be shock-loaded. I feel confident that the slings and carabiners will hold, but worry about the harness itself, the anchor point, and most importantly, the force that my dog will be subjected to. I've considered adding a screamer to help reduce the force, but am wondering if it will still be dangerous? Can anyone here shed some light on this situation? Thanks a bunch. Jason
I like how this thread is posted in The Lab. But I was dissappointed to find the dog was a golden retriever and not a black lab.
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erin
Jan 4, 2008, 5:57 PM
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joshy8200 wrote: zenelky wrote: If animal control picks up your dog, he's more likely to be returned. I figure that it costs a lot, but if 1 time it brings my dogs home, it's more than worth it's weight in gold. Good luck! Sorry...I can't be more help on the anchoring question. The post about the harnesses at Petsmart or Petco is probably your best bet. I would wonder how well those work, because the one I've seen with my fiance's little dog doesn't seem to secure the dog into position (like an anchor that has extension in it). So I would think the dog could be subjected to some rough shock loading forces. But with regards to microchipping your pet...that's cheap! My dog got picked up once by animal control. Along with the $50 fine they microchipped my dog for $15.
poor daisy :( you don't think she's safe?
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cervicornis
Jan 4, 2008, 6:07 PM
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I've got him tethered in the back seat of the cab, not the bed of the pickup. The harness I am using is a seat belt that is specifically designed for use with dogs.
What I am worried about is that by attaching him to the car with a 24" static sling, the forces will be dangerous in the event of a high speed crash. To put it in climbing terms, I suspect it will be similar to a factor 2 fall.
Seatbelts save human lives since they stretch in the event of an accident - same as a climbing rope. My dog benefits from the harness (which is made from seat belt webbing) but the sling is the component that has me worried. Does that make sense?
BTW, already got him microchipped so that is taken care of.
Jason
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binrat
Jan 4, 2008, 6:30 PM
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maybe prehaps a doggie purcell?
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plund
Jan 4, 2008, 6:41 PM
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If the sling is nylon, isn't there some "stretch" - ie. it's not "static"?? Obviously not as much as a dynamic rope, but there should be some give...
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greenketch
Jan 4, 2008, 8:01 PM
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cervicornis wrote: I've got him tethered in the back seat of the cab, not the bed of the pickup. The harness I am using is a seat belt that is specifically designed for use with dogs. What I am worried about is that by attaching him to the car with a 24" static sling, the forces will be dangerous in the event of a high speed crash. To put it in climbing terms, I suspect it will be similar to a factor 2 fall. Seatbelts save human lives since they stretch in the event of an accident - same as a climbing rope. My dog benefits from the harness (which is made from seat belt webbing) but the sling is the component that has me worried. Does that make sense? BTW, already got him microchipped so that is taken care of. Jason
Sorry but seatbelts stretch very little comparitevly. They lock up and prevent blunt force due to relative motion. The only really disappaitive item is an air bag. But that is part of another discussion.
To answer this you need to look at the possibilities to FF2. That would require a 4' travel on a 2' sling. I do not believe it is possible for a dog to climb past the back seat to the length of the sling and then in an accident fly over the seat and stop at full extension on the other side. So in response to the FF2 bit not possible.
The next scenario is of course that it is possible for the car to stop in way less time from a crash than on any roped system. This of course hugely increases the forces. To mitigate this the most amount of ravel is required before the dog can hit something else solid so a screamer may help but will the dog just hit the dash and suffer blunt force before the screamer is full activated.
The best answer would be to restrict the dog as much as the little guy can live with. Then have some device (even a stretchy sling like nylon instead of dyneema) that will bring it to a stop after stretch before it hits a solid oblect.
As a rough guess (educated but rough, I work in EMS and see several of these) I would start with the deceleration forces being at or over 5G's your dogs weight will give you some idea of how hard it will pull on the sling.
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danep
Jan 4, 2008, 8:37 PM
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Sorry, slightly off-topic perhaps, but greenketch is absolutely right, seatbelts are pretty damn static. In fact many of them use pyrotechnic tensioning systems that probably cause them to put even more force on the body than a simple "static" setup. Seatbelts bruise, break bones, rupture internal organs, etc... but we use them because cracking a few ribs is nothing next to cracking your skull.
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