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Seneca AZ Closure
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monkeydew


Jan 14, 2008, 9:08 AM
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Registered: Oct 1, 2003
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Seneca AZ Closure  (North_America: United_States: Arizona)
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FYI everyone,
Seneca is "closed" to all climbing per the Reservation's Wildlife and Recreation Dept. I called to ask about permits and was met w/ a high level of resistance. I am, however, looking into the matter and am hopeful that rational minds can reach a compromise and develope a program/policy beneficial to all parties. I'm looking for some grass rooots support from climbers and natives alike within Arizona. If you're interested or know of anyone who might be, please drop me a line here or at t_bird26@yahoo.com.
cheers,
Josh


(This post was edited by monkeydew on Jan 14, 2008, 4:19 PM)


throb


Jan 14, 2008, 9:28 AM
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Re: [monkeydew] Seneca Closure [In reply to]
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monkeydew wrote:
FYI everyone,
Seneca is "closed" to all climbing per the Reservation's Wildlife and Recreation Dept. I called to ask about permits and was met w/ a high level of resistance. I am, however, looking into the matter and am hopeful that rational minds can reach a compromise and develope a program/policy beneficial to all parties. I'm looking for some grass rooots support from climbers and natives alike within Arizona. If you're interested or know of anyone who might be, please drop me a line here or at t_bird26@yahoo.com.
cheers,
Josh

I about freaked out until I realized you weren't talking about Seneca Rocks in WVA. Sorry to hear about your problem. Hopefully level heads will prevail.


notapplicable


Jan 14, 2008, 2:19 PM
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Re: [throb] Seneca Closure [In reply to]
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure my face looked just like this -Shocked- there for a second.

Sorry to hear about the closer monkeydew, hope you get it sorted out to where everyone can enjoy the land. Good luck.


marc801


Jan 14, 2008, 2:56 PM
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Re: [monkeydew] Seneca Closure [In reply to]
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You might want to retitle your thread to "Seneca, AZ Closure" to prevent further potential heart attacks amongst the east coasters and us old farts (especially when it appears on the front page without the regional tag).

Best of luck to you in trying to get this closure lifted.


healyje


Jan 14, 2008, 5:40 PM
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Re: [monkeydew] Seneca AZ Closure [In reply to]
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San Carlos Apache Tribe Recreation & Wildlife Dept. wrote:
REG 021 ROCK CLIMBING RESERVATION WIDE

1. It will be unlawful for any non-member and non-member BIA or Tribal Employee to engage in any Rock Climbing activity on the San Carlos Apache Indian Reservation, except for Governmental Employees who are training or are actually in the process of rescue operations, without written permission from the Recreation and Wildlife Commission or their designated person.

It would probably be a good idea to learn the history behind this regulation and the interactions the the tribe has had with rock climbers. Likely there was some bad experiences somewhere along the way. The contacts are available on this page. I'd contact the Director's office and see if you could get together with them for a meeting.

http://www.sancarlosrecreationandwildlife.com/staff.htm

The only way you are going to effect any change is by understanding their perspective and the origin of this regulation.


(This post was edited by healyje on Jan 14, 2008, 5:42 PM)


monkeydew


Jan 14, 2008, 8:11 PM
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Re: [healyje] Seneca AZ Closure [In reply to]
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thanks Healyje,
you'll be glad to know I'm already there. It was all I could do to ask "why" after having met such strong and seemingly hostile opposition from the get-go. I'm in the process of talking w/ the heads of both the Rec and Wildlife Dept. as well as the Cultural Center. Here's what I got:

The site is home to certain archeological relics and there have been cases of looting in the past. The sanctity of the site did not seem to be in conflict with the use of climbers/hikers prior to the looting. The issue went up to the federal level to obtain the protection they felt needed and stands as is today.

Unfortunately, there really isn't any protection, only penalties. The site is of such a location that monitoring and thus enforcement is minimal if it all. Poaching by climbers and those of ill-intent is a reality not being addressed. There is no physical deterrent in place and no label of the current restrictions to notify climbers and the like who mean no harm. I was there a year ago with absolutely no idea or indication that there was an issue in the first place.

I hope that the Recreation Dept. will see the opportunity to work with a climbing coalition as an opportunity to ensure more security for the site. Unfortunately, I'm in Montana, so I'm physically unable to meet with anyone or to represent any climbers. However, I would love to return and see an opportunity to restore the sanctity of a tribal land and amazing climbing venue.

I would really appreciate any further advice and contact info if you know any AZ climbers or climbing coalitions that might like to take part in this issue.
cheers,
Josh


sed


Jan 15, 2008, 12:00 PM
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Re: [monkeydew] Seneca AZ Closure [In reply to]
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get ahold of the access fund regional staff member, they are a good resource. i tried for about a year to reopen the san tans but met with a lot of resistance of the worse kind, unanswered messages, infinite delays and quite a bit of ignorance. Good luck!
Scott


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