Forums: Climbing Information: Technique & Training:
F training, I'm climbing from now on.
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Technique & Training

Premier Sponsor:

 
First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All


fresh


Feb 14, 2008, 3:43 PM
Post #1 of 36 (5665 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 6, 2007
Posts: 1199

F training, I'm climbing from now on.
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

This past fall I trained pretty hard. Twice a day twice a week, once a day one or two other times a week, with easy days in between and at least one off day. Running, circuits, climbing, kettlebelling, biking, everything I enjoyed. I read gym jones and this forum and pushed myself hard. I kept a log and tried to take sensible amounts of rest.

This past month I had to move out of my apartment pretty quickly, and didn't have much time for training because of a longer commute. I still climb twice a week and try to get out for ice climbing every other weekend or so. But I haven't done a pull-up or a dead hang in about a month.

Yet, last week I sent 5.12 for the first time (on TR, at the gym, boohoo, whatevs). Yesterday I onsighted 5.12a (on TR, at the gym, boohoo, suck a hog).

I might be crazy. maybe this is just my body finally feeling the benefits of a lot of hard work. but I'm not feeling so compelled to get up at 5:00 for a cold morning workout. In fact I think I might just climb from now on, go running when I feel like it. maybe I'll never do another sit up.

OK, so I do want to stay in shape for the low-level alpine climbs that I want to do, so I might start getting up early again. But I'm interested to hear if anyone's had any similar experiences. Does it pay off to work out only, say, twice a week? Are rest days (i.e. do-nothing days) normally this beneficial?


dudemanbu


Feb 14, 2008, 3:52 PM
Post #2 of 36 (5638 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 2, 2005
Posts: 941

Re: [fresh] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I've made more rapid progress in the last 6 months (5.10b to 5.12a redpoints) than i have ever before, and i think the reason why is rest days. I'm climbing less often (twice a week on average, spread evenly) and doing much less actual training.


aerili


Feb 14, 2008, 4:08 PM
Post #3 of 36 (5623 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 1166

Re: [fresh] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

fresh,

You should easily be able to maintain your cardiovascular gains on 2 days per week.

Strength maintenance should require one day a week of maximal training.

Congrats on your gains. I do think your hard work paid off, but perhaps it's true you weren't allowing enough recovery time before. Maybe your mental state is different now too. Who knows. Try it out.


hopperhopper


Feb 14, 2008, 10:51 PM
Post #4 of 36 (5522 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 475

Re: [aerili] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

aerili wrote:
You should easily be able to maintain your cardiovascular gains on 2 days per week.

Strength maintenance should require one day a week of maximal training.

do you have references for these


Partner angry


Feb 14, 2008, 11:08 PM
Post #5 of 36 (5510 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 21, 2003
Posts: 8405

Re: [hopperhopper] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The only exercises I do on purpose away from climbing is just some pretty basic core stuff.

Other than that, I just climb and still manage lots of improvements. They key is to climb a lot and to listen to your body for when you shouldn't climb.

That and I'm a muthafukkin animal.


WVUCLMBR


Feb 15, 2008, 5:17 AM
Post #6 of 36 (5421 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 20, 2007
Posts: 668

Re: [fresh] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (2 ratings)  
Can't Post

There is 5.12 and 5.12a @ climbing gyms? Please excuse my ignorance as I have only been to one climbing gym before (we are poor here in WV and as such are forced to climb real rock). I just wondered if the holds are labeled or something and you use some mathmatic formula to determine grade? P.s Train more Core!


subantz


Feb 15, 2008, 6:40 AM
Post #7 of 36 (5365 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 7, 2007
Posts: 1247

Re: [WVUCLMBR] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Forget all that go have fun with it. You should stay strong with 2 or 3 days in a gym. sit ups suck anyway. but to each is own


zeke_sf


Feb 15, 2008, 7:42 AM
Post #8 of 36 (5311 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 28, 2006
Posts: 18730

Re: [WVUCLMBR] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

beep beep boop

WVUCLMBR wrote:
*pl0nk*

ahhhhh...


cchas


Feb 15, 2008, 7:56 AM
Post #9 of 36 (5293 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 9, 2005
Posts: 344

Re: [fresh] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

So you were training hard, and taking time off allowed you to climb harder. Could it be that

a) you might have been overtraining and taking the time off allowed your body to recover.

or

b) that your body was getting stronger while you were training, but you didn't notice the pay off until recently

Even though you said that you tried to take "sensible amounts of rests", what one person needs may be very diffent then what another person may need. Even what one person may need may change over a period of time, or be dependent on your last workout. Whereas one person may take a day off and come back completely rested, another person may have to take several days off. Or after one specific workout, you may need to take multiple days off, whereas another workout, you may feel great after one rest day.

I'd say try training again (if you enjoy it) but make your rests longer and see if you can benefit.


aerili


Feb 15, 2008, 8:11 AM
Post #10 of 36 (5277 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 1166

Re: [hopperhopper] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

hopperhopper wrote:
aerili wrote:
You should easily be able to maintain your cardiovascular gains on 2 days per week.

Strength maintenance should require one day a week of maximal training.

do you have references for these

No, I just made it up, of course.

This is apparently what has been determined in studies of both aerobic and anaerobic training over the years. You can ask my prior professors of ex phys and strength training about specific study references, but I figure they did their legwork appropriately.


rockclimbergabor


Feb 15, 2008, 8:14 AM
Post #11 of 36 (5275 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 18, 2003
Posts: 131

Re: [fresh] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

it all depends on how you define "training". a lot of strong climbers dont 'train' in the sense that you see it. clmbing at your max level (like 12a onsight for you) can be more effective then doing x number of sit-ups or deadhangs. a lot of climbers have a system set up that includes a period of muscular, aerobic, and aneorobic training (power workouts, circuits, laps on routes, four by fours, etc etc) followed by a period of max level performance (trying to redpoint or onsight your hardest). the training prepares you for improvement, but the period of max level climbing builds up your syke and pushes your body in newer, harder ways, allowing even more improvement. to me it seems like you're following this system - if not purposefully - and it probably explains your sudden improvements.

my advice to you is to do training cycles of 2-4 months, depending on what you have time for, and then when you feel you reach your peak do max level climbing until you feel like youre plateauing. then after that, 1-3 weeks of rest, depending on how worked you are, then time to start the cycle again!


Partner angry


Feb 15, 2008, 8:27 AM
Post #12 of 36 (5256 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 21, 2003
Posts: 8405

Re: [aerili] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

aerili wrote:
hopperhopper wrote:
aerili wrote:
You should easily be able to maintain your cardiovascular gains on 2 days per week.

Strength maintenance should require one day a week of maximal training.

do you have references for these

No, I just made it up, of course.

When a 17 year old asks you for references, you give them, that's the rulz.

BTW, can you recommend any pre climb stretches to warm up with?


hopperhopper


Feb 15, 2008, 9:34 AM
Post #13 of 36 (5199 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 475

Re: [aerili] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

aerili wrote:
This is apparently what has been determined in studies of both aerobic and anaerobic training over the years. You can ask my prior professors of ex phys and strength training about specific study references, but I figure they did their legwork appropriately.

i was hoping for a link, but ok. not saying i don't believe you, i would just like to read it.


Climbnkev


Feb 15, 2008, 10:50 AM
Post #14 of 36 (5159 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 27, 2008
Posts: 32

Re: [aerili] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

aerili wrote:
fresh,


Strength maintenance should require one day a week of maximal training.

Could you give us an example of what this one training day might look like without charging a hundred dollars?


Partner angry


Feb 15, 2008, 10:53 AM
Post #15 of 36 (5156 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jul 21, 2003
Posts: 8405

Re: [Climbnkev] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Climbnkev wrote:
aerili wrote:
fresh,


Strength maintenance should require one day a week of maximal training.

Could you give us an example of what this one training day might look like without charging a hundred dollars?

I'm starting to figure out all this cross board posting. 8 posts? n00b.

Wanna go climb Far Reaches and Arch Nemesis with us tomorrow? I think I may have a redpoint (not pink) in me.


aerili


Feb 15, 2008, 12:10 PM
Post #16 of 36 (5110 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 1166

Re: [angry] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

angry wrote:
When a 17 year old asks you for references, you give them, that's the rulz.

Doh!


angry wrote:
BTW, can you recommend any pre climb stretches to warm up with?

Hey mister, are you cross-site posting now?!


aerili


Feb 15, 2008, 12:19 PM
Post #17 of 36 (5099 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 1166

Re: [hopperhopper] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

h.h.,

Ufortunately, I have no links for you. Some things I rely on my education for since, as far as I was told at the time, my classroom lectures were based on empirical evidence.


Climbnkev wrote:
Could you give us an example of what this one training day might look like without charging a hundred dollars?

Well, my response wasn't ever meant to be one of "what" to do, rather only a response to the OP's question: "Does it pay off to work out only, say, twice a week?" Since strength and cardiovascular don't respond exactly the same, I simply tried to answer his question for both. He already has his own training plan.


Edited to add: the key to reducing one's aerobic training yet still maintain the same levels of fitness, you must only reduce either FREQUENCY or DURATION by 1/3 to 2/3 and you must keep your intensity absolutely the same as before, plus keep the other variable the same as well. Ergo:

Intensity (same) + Frequency (same) + Duration (less) OR

Intensity (same) + Frequency (less) + Duration (same)

= Maintenance
(I also remember hearing that you can decrease both Freq and Dur by up to 2/3 simul and still not suffer losses, so, that may in fact be the actual case.)

BUT

Intensity (less) + Frequency (same) + Duration (same)

= Decreases in fitness

Likewise, resistance training requires MAXIMAL effort of all muscle groups to maintain existing strength on one day per week.

(This post was edited by aerili on Feb 15, 2008, 4:33 PM)


hopperhopper


Feb 15, 2008, 5:17 PM
Post #18 of 36 (5021 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 29, 2007
Posts: 475

Re: [aerili] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

aerili wrote:
= Maintenance

does this apply to everybody? i mean, can ronnie coleman maintain his mass with one workout per week? seems like when you get that huge it might take more.


hyongx


Feb 15, 2008, 6:53 PM
Post #19 of 36 (4982 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 16, 2004
Posts: 209

Re: [hopperhopper] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

lol@ronnie coleman
lol@getting huge
lol@ronnie coleman rock climbing


aerili


Feb 15, 2008, 11:11 PM
Post #20 of 36 (4924 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 12, 2006
Posts: 1166

Re: [hopperhopper] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

hopperhopper wrote:
i mean, can ronnie coleman maintain his mass with one workout per week? seems like when you get that huge it might take more.

I said to maintain strength, not mass. There's a difference, and it's about maintaining the same level of neural recruitment.


slavetogravity


Feb 16, 2008, 12:38 AM
Post #21 of 36 (4910 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 9, 2003
Posts: 1114

Re: [fresh] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

fresh wrote:
OK, so I do want to stay in shape for the low-level alpine climbs that I want to do, so I might start getting up early again. But I'm interested to hear if anyone's had any similar experiences. Does it pay off to work out only, say, twice a week? Are rest days (i.e. do-nothing days) normally this beneficial?

Don't worry. Some day, maybe soon, you'll be out climbing and despite you're best effort you'll find your self get shut down on a 5.10a, or equivalent grade of humiliation. After that, you'll find all the motivation you'll need to train. Or you'll be like all the other burnouts I've ever known, start Mt. biking, and never look back.


corson


Feb 16, 2008, 3:59 AM
Post #22 of 36 (4897 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 15, 2005
Posts: 193

Re: [aerili] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

aerili wrote:
hopperhopper wrote:
i mean, can ronnie coleman maintain his mass with one workout per week? seems like when you get that huge it might take more.

I said to maintain strength, not mass. There's a difference, and it's about maintaining the same level of neural recruitment.

An important note. In order to maintain strength, there has to be at least one session of maximal nueral recruitment per week( that is why 10-5's and 10-10's are so effective and BTW often used by body builders for both strength and mass maintenence,especcially during cutting phases)However I have found that with only one day a week it often leads to diminishing returns in the long run.Physiologies differ,but for me that is usually about 8-12 weeks.Then you have to start building again or at least put in an extra day.


Partner supersonick


Feb 16, 2008, 8:08 AM
Post #23 of 36 (4861 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 18, 2002
Posts: 157

Re: [rockclimbergabor] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

rockclimbergabor wrote:
it all depends on how you define "training". a lot of strong climbers dont 'train' in the sense that you see it. clmbing at your max level (like 12a onsight for you) can be more effective then doing x number of sit-ups or deadhangs. a lot of climbers have a system set up that includes a period of muscular, aerobic, and aneorobic training (power workouts, circuits, laps on routes, four by fours, etc etc) followed by a period of max level performance (trying to redpoint or onsight your hardest). the training prepares you for improvement, but the period of max level climbing builds up your syke and pushes your body in newer, harder ways, allowing even more improvement. to me it seems like you're following this system - if not purposefully - and it probably explains your sudden improvements.

my advice to you is to do training cycles of 2-4 months, depending on what you have time for, and then when you feel you reach your peak do max level climbing until you feel like youre plateauing. then after that, 1-3 weeks of rest, depending on how worked you are, then time to start the cycle again!

bingo


fresh


Feb 16, 2008, 1:04 PM
Post #24 of 36 (4802 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 6, 2007
Posts: 1199

Re: [supersonick] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The most important thing to me is to love what I'm doing at all times, and in honesty I kinda like waking up at 5 to go running in the bitter cold (well, on some days). However I'm not interested in doing that if it has a limiting effect on my progress. I'll just keep on trying new things, so far as I'm loving every minute of it.

Thanks so much for the responses.


shockabuku


Feb 16, 2008, 2:41 PM
Post #25 of 36 (4774 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4857

Re: [aerili] F training, I'm climbing from now on. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

aerili wrote:
hEdited to add: the key to reducing one's aerobic training yet still maintain the same levels of fitness, you must only reduce either FREQUENCY or DURATION by 1/3 to 2/3 and you must keep your intensity absolutely the same as before, plus keep the other variable the same as well. Ergo:

Intensity (same) + Frequency (same) + Duration (less) OR

Intensity (same) + Frequency (less) + Duration (same)

= Maintenance
(I also remember hearing that you can decrease both Freq and Dur by up to 2/3 simul and still not suffer losses, so, that may in fact be the actual case.)

BUT

Intensity (less) + Frequency (same) + Duration (same)

= Decreases in fitness

Likewise, resistance training requires MAXIMAL effort of all muscle groups to maintain existing strength on one day per week.

Something seems odd with this. I can decrease one of those three by 1/3 this week and then decrease one of the others by 1/3 next week, and so on and so on until eventually I think the series will end up with me only doing 1/3 of my initial workout but still having the same results. That would be great, but I don't buy it.

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Climbing Information : Technique & Training

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$87.75 (10% off)
$123.30 (10% off)
$12.56 (10% off)
$53.96 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook