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heyjoe16


Feb 25, 2008, 8:09 PM
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Another Weight Lifting/Climbing Schedule
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I saw a similar thread just a few posts down but my plan is pretty different so I'll just make my own. Basically I've weightlifted off and on for the past couple years and I've started up again seriously these past two weeks. I also have a membership to a climbing gym and climb 3 times a week. As far as priorities, I love climbing but I'm also starting college next fall and want to get as ripped as possible before then...so about equal I guess. The biggest thing I'm wondering is if you guys think I'll see any gains with this plan. I know if I'm overworking I'll build endurance,but risk injury and probably won't see any gains in mass...Anyway, my current plan is as follows:

Monday-Shoulders/back+ 1h30min gym climbing
Tuesday-Rest day
Wednesday-Chest/Biceps/Triceps
Thursday-2h30min climbing
Friday-Rest day
Saturday-Legs+2h30min climbing

Btw, I climb with a partner so it's not like straight-up climbing for 2 1/2 hours or something.Thanks in advance for your help!!

Edit:Sunday is also a rest day


(This post was edited by heyjoe16 on Feb 25, 2008, 8:38 PM)


joswald


Feb 25, 2008, 8:58 PM
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how ripped are you now and how ripped are you hoping to get?
i would think it will work now as long as you increase the intensity of each workout and MAKE SURE YOU EAT ENOUGH!


heyjoe16


Feb 25, 2008, 9:24 PM
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Hey joswald, here's a link to a couple pics of me from a year ago:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3156961

...I've gained since then but have also gotten taller. So I probably look about the same with a bit more mass. Erm,how ripped do I want to get? Basically I want to bulk up 15-20 pounds by the fall...I don't know if that's even possible b/c my metabolism is pretty fast but yeah. thanks...


sidepull


Feb 25, 2008, 9:47 PM
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heyjoe16 wrote:
As far as priorities, I love climbing but I'm also starting college next fall and want to get as ripped as possible before then

This makes a lot of sense, pre-empting the freshman 15. Plus, if the prof asks a question you can raise your hand in a way that allows you to flex at the same time - that way all the hotties will know that you're smart and ripped (sorry, it was hard for me to type "ripped" I kept hearing Cartman yelling "BEEFCAKE!!!" in my brain).

But to your question, I don't think this workout really makes much sense from either a climbing or a body building perspective without more detail. For example, what type of routines will be doing during the climbing days (4x4's, redpoints, threshold bouldering, etc.?) and what type of lifting are you doing (hypertrophy training, endurance training, power training?). More importantly, how do you see the two working together. For example, do you really need to do a full back workout if you've done a climbing workout built around 4x4's? Do you really want to lift before you climb? Do you need to climb for the amount of time listed, if so why? What role does climbing fulfill in your fitness routine that you don't get from weightlifting?

The reality is that you can gain muscle mass from almost any program, but absent more details all anyone can tell you "meh."Unsure


miavzero


Feb 26, 2008, 6:05 AM
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heyjoe16 wrote:
I saw a similar thread just a few posts down but my plan is pretty different so I'll just make my own. Basically I've weightlifted off and on for the past couple years and I've started up again seriously these past two weeks. I also have a membership to a climbing gym and climb 3 times a week. As far as priorities, I love climbing but I'm also starting college next fall and want to get as ripped as possible before then...so about equal I guess. The biggest thing I'm wondering is if you guys think I'll see any gains with this plan. I know if I'm overworking I'll build endurance,but risk injury and probably won't see any gains in mass...Anyway, my current plan is as follows:

Monday-Shoulders/back+ 1h30min gym climbing
Tuesday-Rest day
Wednesday-Chest/Biceps/Triceps
Thursday-2h30min climbing
Friday-Rest day
Saturday-Legs+2h30min climbing

Btw, I climb with a partner so it's not like straight-up climbing for 2 1/2 hours or something.Thanks in advance for your help!!

Edit:Sunday is also a rest day

If your motivation for bodybuilding lies in impressing others, then you are probably the type of person who will work really hard to gain 20 pounds of muscle, only to find that it hurts your climbing performance. When you find that you climb poorly, you will probably quit climbing, because it makes you appear unskilled.

This type of achievement orientation can serve you in attaining some of your goals, but eventually leads to maladaptive behaviors in the form of unhealthy obsession with training, denying yourself the opportunity to enjoy learning new skills, or doing illegal drugs to get that perfect physique.

I hope that you climb because you intrinsically love to do so, or you value climbing as a way of adding variety to your workout. I also hope that you continue your interest in bodybuilding, because you value personal achievement, and not the mesomorphic physique that you perceive other college students to be impressed by.

The people on the bodybuilding site seem really supportive, so turn to them if all of the anti-establishment climbers on rc.com try to shoot you down.

Good luck, and stay healthy.


FC.climber


Feb 26, 2008, 7:53 AM
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I had a trainer (when I played lacrosse/football) pick on me once when I told him that I would just work a isolated or upper/lower body workouts. His response to me was do you run one half of the game on your feet and the next half on your hands. So what I am trying to say is stuff like Cleans, overhead squats, and other types of "core" style lifts will improve all of your movements and put on lean mass. Doing curls etc... on the BOGO ball mixes things up.

When you get to school keep it up or the muscle you do have will turn to beer fat. I learned the hard way. too many kegs.


heyjoe16


Feb 26, 2008, 10:15 AM
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sidepull wrote:
For example, what type of routines will be doing during the climbing days (4x4's, redpoints, threshold bouldering, etc.?) and what type of lifting are you doing (hypertrophy training, endurance training, power training?). More importantly, how do you see the two working together. For example, do you really need to do a full back workout if you've done a climbing workout built around 4x4's? Do you really want to lift before you climb? Do you need to climb for the amount of time listed, if so why? What role does climbing fulfill in your fitness routine that you don't get from weightlifting?

I pretty much climb whatever I feel like in the gym. I do at least an hour of bouldering every week. I don't really look at climbing as a "workout", per se,I just climb because I love it. However, I do recognize the fact that climbing is a major workout so I'm wanting to be cautious as I try to both climb and lift. Regarding what type of lifting...I couldn't tell you a specific name; but basically I do
2-3 exercises per muscle group, doing 3 sets of
8-10 trying to increase weight every week.


heyjoe16


Feb 26, 2008, 10:30 AM
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miavzero wrote:

If your motivation for bodybuilding lies in impressing others, then you are probably the type of person who will work really hard to gain 20 pounds of muscle, only to find that it hurts your climbing performance. When you find that you climb poorly, you will probably quit climbing, because it makes you appear unskilled.

This type of achievement orientation can serve you in attaining some of your goals, but eventually leads to maladaptive behaviors in the form of unhealthy obsession with training, denying yourself the opportunity to enjoy learning new skills, or doing illegal drugs to get that perfect physique.

I hope that you climb because you intrinsically love to do so, or you value climbing as a way of adding variety to your workout. I also hope that you continue your interest in bodybuilding, because you value personal achievement, and not the mesomorphic physique that you perceive other college students to be impressed by.

The people on the bodybuilding site seem really supportive, so turn to them if all of the anti-establishment climbers on rc.com try to shoot you down.

Good luck, and stay healthy.

Well I wouldn't say my motivation is to "impress others" but to look good on the beach is definitely part of it,lol. However, staying healthy is more important to me than looking ripped(thankfully those two tend to go along with one another). In response to the rest of your reply-which btw, seemed completely unwarranted on your part- all I can say is that I've accomplished alot in my life for many different reasons,not the least of which is my faith in God; so just to put your worries to rest, I'm not going to stop climbing if for some reason my performance decreases as I gain muscle weight. I'm immersed enough in climbing already that I seriously doubt if I'll ever stop climbing for an extended period of time...anyway, some helpful advice would be appreciated.


miavzero


Feb 27, 2008, 3:19 AM
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Heyjoe,
I'm glad to hear that you are mostly into climbing and lifting for yourself. The only reason for my last post was that I have seen a lot of young guys like yourself get really into bodybuilding as a way of dealing with some underlying mental health issues.

Its national body image awareness week, so remember that your body is an incredible vehicle that lets you experience life, and not a facade of self-worth.


colatownkid


Feb 27, 2008, 4:16 AM
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try not to be offended by what miavzero is saying--the intentions are good (and pretty much correct for that matter).

if you want to look ripped, lifting continually will do it.

i think the major concern with your plan is that climbing and traditional bodybuilding rarely go hand-in-hand. that is, climbing emphasizes high strength to weight ratio whereas aesthetic bodybuilding typically emphasizes mass gain. therein lies the problem. if you gain mass, your weight increases, your strength to weight ratio decreases, and odds are that your climbing suffers. the idea is just that you need to know this ahead of time; if you put on 20 pounds of muscle because that's your goal, it will probably negatively impact your climbing. but as long as you understand this and accept it, then you'll be just fine.

what concerns me is the lifting followed by multiple hours of climbing. i don't have the exact schedule you posted in front of me, but my advice is to be cautious about lifting first and climbing second as it increases the chance of injury (depending on what you're doing). if you're already tired, you may be just tired enough that when you throw for that big dyno you don't quite stick it, over-extend and blow your rotator cuff, etc. my only advice is just be cautious.

also, you may want to do a little research about bodybuilding and periodization, because odds are that if you don't vary your workout plan at all you'll plateau pretty quickly.


sidepull


Feb 27, 2008, 3:18 PM
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heyjoe16 wrote:
sidepull wrote:
For example, what type of routines will be doing during the climbing days (4x4's, redpoints, threshold bouldering, etc.?) and what type of lifting are you doing (hypertrophy training, endurance training, power training?). More importantly, how do you see the two working together. For example, do you really need to do a full back workout if you've done a climbing workout built around 4x4's? Do you really want to lift before you climb? Do you need to climb for the amount of time listed, if so why? What role does climbing fulfill in your fitness routine that you don't get from weightlifting?

I pretty much climb whatever I feel like in the gym. I do at least an hour of bouldering every week. I don't really look at climbing as a "workout", per se,I just climb because I love it. However, I do recognize the fact that climbing is a major workout so I'm wanting to be cautious as I try to both climb and lift. Regarding what type of lifting...I couldn't tell you a specific name; but basically I do
2-3 exercises per muscle group, doing 3 sets of
8-10 trying to increase weight every week.

This is a big problem. You asked us what we think about your program but given your response you don't really have one, at least on the climbing end of things. You really need to think about what you're trying to accomplish with your time climbing and then order your climbing and lifting in a way that is synergistic. Right now you're doing the opposite. For example, as the above poster noted, climbing after you've completed a hypertrophy workout (which is what you're doing) will only enable you to learn poor technique because your body will be tired and you will be overcompensating with bad body motion. So, to answer your initial question, your schedule is a poor one.

You really need to think about how you're using climbing as a form of training and/or how you're training for climbing. In general, you'd be much better off lifting after climbing simply because the isolated exercises you'll be doing don't require the same level of movement complexity that climbing does (e.g. the climbing won't significantly damage your weightlifting movement patterns but the weightlifting before climbing will).

But that's just a general concern. The real problem is that it makes zero sense for you to be fairly specific about how you lift waits and completely unstructured about how you spend your time climbing. If you're really so motivated to be healthy, I'd think you'd also be motivated to use your climbing time in a productive way. For ideas, I'd suggest reading the Self Coached Climber and Performance Rockclimbing and integrating those ideas with ideas from Chad Waterbury (see t-nation.com) about continuous training (that's not what he calls it, but he's got a couple of articles about continuously working a given muscle group - you'll know you've found it when you see pics of the strongmen from Cirque De Soleil). Good luck!


sidepull


Feb 27, 2008, 8:30 PM
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given that you're already on bodybuilding.com, you might also try looking at articles there about strength conditioning and sports training (e.g. how to integrate lifting and skills training for a sport, usually football. you'd probably be better if you found one for MMA). Realize that you'll have to do a lot of re-interpretting because the sports they'll discuss don't emphasize the same muscle groups, but these articles might give you some good principles in terms of thinking about how to structure your workouts, when to do what, what benefits you're getting from each, etc.


heyjoe16


Feb 27, 2008, 9:21 PM
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I appreciate the response sidepull. just curious does anyone here have personal experience with what I'm talking about(trying to lift and climb consistently)?


heyjoe16


Feb 27, 2008, 9:22 PM
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oh and I don't frequent bodybuilding.com...hah.I'm really not at all concerned with being a body builder,per se...just lookin to gain some muscle.


Mike805


Feb 29, 2008, 6:23 PM
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heyjoe16 wrote:
I appreciate the response sidepull. just curious does anyone here have personal experience with what I'm talking about(trying to lift and climb consistently)?

I have a lot of lifting experience (>10yrs) and very little serious climbing experience (<3 months) so keep that in mind. I'm going to be straightforward with you so don't get your panties in a bundle.

You sound like the typical noobie weightlifter with no idea of training principles and how to implement them. My first advice is to go buy the books "Starting Strength" and "Practical Programming" by Mark Rippetoe. If you read and understand just these 2 books you'll understand more about training than 95% of the world.

The type of training you should be doing depends on your level of strength, fitness, how long you've been at it, and what your goals are. That goes for both climbing AND weightlifting. If you don't understand how to train for either one of them by itself, then how do you expect to do a decent job of training for both at the same time?

I've re-read this thread a couple of times and I can't find what your definite goals are. You want to be a good climber and you want to be "cut" for college? By "cut" do you mean low BF% or do you mean big and muscular? You know you can get "cut" without touching any weights right? Please make your goals more definite and your questions more clear and I'll try and answer you better.


colatownkid


Feb 29, 2008, 6:33 PM
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these last few posts bring up a good point. what are your goals, explicitly? do you want to climb better, or is it just for fun? if it's just for fun, what do you consider fun and do you need to do anything to get there? as for lifting, what do you mean by "cut?" do you have strength goals (clean and jerk x lbs, bench y lbs, etc.)? do you have body fat percent goals? do you just want to look good? if that's the case, what does it mean to you to "look good?"

as you start to answer some of these questions you can really uncover what you want from any training program (regardless of activity) and can therefore better direct your workouts.


heyjoe16


Feb 29, 2008, 11:04 PM
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colatownkid wrote:
these last few posts bring up a good point. what are your goals, explicitly? do you want to climb better, or is it just for fun? if it's just for fun, what do you consider fun and do you need to do anything to get there? as for lifting, what do you mean by "cut?" do you have strength goals (clean and jerk x lbs, bench y lbs, etc.)? do you have body fat percent goals? do you just want to look good? if that's the case, what does it mean to you to "look good?"

Ok, I definitely want to climb better( I consistently onsight 5.10a right now and can get 5.10d but have to work it). But really my question is just what have people found to work well when trying to incorporate both climbing and lifting into a weekly routine? Did they burn out quickly? Do they have any good tips based on their experience?etc...Feel free if you want, however I'm really not looking for lifting or climbing tips...just curious about doing both together. So just to be clear" I love climbing and don't want to stop,it would also be a big waste of money if I did...but I also want to lift/bulk so that's really what I'm wondering about. Thanks again everyone...


(This post was edited by heyjoe16 on Feb 29, 2008, 11:06 PM)


lithiummetalman


Mar 1, 2008, 8:12 AM
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3 years ago I tried combining lifting and climbing, my body simply couldn't handle it...it led to numeorus injuries including a torn shoulder...which took close to a year and half to heal...and to this day I still have to keep an eye on it.

At the time I was on the HIT series for lifting which was great for strength and bulk; unfortunately my climbing was quite disorganized, not understanding cycling, rest days, and differention on what/when to focus on i.e. power, power endurance, endurance, etc.

Also, did not take into consideration that increasing weight quickly (aka eating a crap load for bulking) would put an enormous amount of strain on my fingers, my fingers could not keep up with the 'sudden' change, combined with trying to 'quickly improve' my climbing led to finger injuries.

So with injuries, being sick, and just plain unhappy with my climbing progress, one could say I was burned out....

In the end I gave up lifting completely (physical therapist orders)

To be frankly honest, I am glad I made that decision, I know that straight of the bat that my body cannot handle the loads of both lifting and climbing.
The best thing is that I have progressively been getting stronger (climbing and strength wise!) while being injury free for over a year and a half!! (Which I deem a grand success, but cannot have been done without the help and advice of those who helped / continue to help me)

There are people out there who can do both lifting and climbing, and that's great, it can be def be done.

BTW, climbing in itself is a phenomenal bodybuilder (look at boulderers, strong sport & trad climbers), combined with exercises for balancing out muscle imbalances, a good diet, proper rest, SMART planning etc and the results will start to show.

Anyways, truly consider what your goals are, and be honest with yourself.

Cheers


Mike805


Mar 2, 2008, 6:05 PM
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heyjoe16 wrote:
Ok, I definitely want to climb better( I consistently onsight 5.10a right now and can get 5.10d but have to work it). But really my question is just what have people found to work well when trying to incorporate both climbing and lifting into a weekly routine? Did they burn out quickly? Do they have any good tips based on their experience?etc...Feel free if you want, however I'm really not looking for lifting or climbing tips...just curious about doing both together. So just to be clear" I love climbing and don't want to stop,it would also be a big waste of money if I did...but I also want to lift/bulk so that's really what I'm wondering about. Thanks again everyone...

So you would like to blindly mix them together without knowing how to correctly train for either on their own....basically the jest of your post.

Coming from someone who used to struggle with gaining weight until I learned how to correctly train (and more importantly eat), I can tell you that if you plan on climbing multiple x's a week and mixing in lifting with the goal of gaining muscle weight, ie. "bulking", you're just going to be spinning your wheels and are going to burn out with zero weight gain. An educated guess tells me that while you are burning out on your quest to getting "teh hyooge gunzorz" and "teh pecz of steel" your climbing will also suffer.

Regardless of what I think is going to happen to you, to answer your question my schedule is usually this:

Sun: weights
Mon: gym bouldering
Tue: off
Wed: climbing
Thur: weights
Fri: off
Sat: climbing

It changes around and there are days of high intensity and low intensity as well as days of training for strength and days for endurance (for both climbing and lifting). Training at your max for both climbing and lifting will surely burn you out and/or cause injury. Like I said before, it's important to know how to train for each seperately before you go just blindly trying to do both. You will not meet any of your goals that way...trust me.


heyjoe16


Mar 2, 2008, 7:06 PM
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lithiummetalman wrote:
3 years ago I tried combining lifting and climbing, my body simply couldn't handle it...it led to numeorus injuries including a torn shoulder...which took close to a year and half to heal...and to this day I still have to keep an eye on it.

At the time I was on the HIT series for lifting which was great for strength and bulk; unfortunately my climbing was quite disorganized, not understanding cycling, rest days, and differention on what/when to focus on i.e. power, power endurance, endurance, etc.

Also, did not take into consideration that increasing weight quickly (aka eating a crap load for bulking) would put an enormous amount of strain on my fingers, my fingers could not keep up with the 'sudden' change, combined with trying to 'quickly improve' my climbing led to finger injuries.

So with injuries, being sick, and just plain unhappy with my climbing progress, one could say I was burned out....

In the end I gave up lifting completely (physical therapist orders)

To be frankly honest, I am glad I made that decision, I know that straight of the bat that my body cannot handle the loads of both lifting and climbing.
The best thing is that I have progressively been getting stronger (climbing and strength wise!) while being injury free for over a year and a half!! (Which I deem a grand success, but cannot have been done without the help and advice of those who helped / continue to help me)

There are people out there who can do both lifting and climbing, and that's great, it can be def be done.

BTW, climbing in itself is a phenomenal bodybuilder (look at boulderers, strong sport & trad climbers), combined with exercises for balancing out muscle imbalances, a good diet, proper rest, SMART planning etc and the results will start to show.

Anyways, truly consider what your goals are, and be honest with yourself.

Cheers

Thanks, exactly what I was looking for. I'll take what you said into consideration along with evaluating my own experience.Thanks again...


heyjoe16


Mar 2, 2008, 7:32 PM
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Mike805 wrote:

So you would like to blindly mix them together without knowing how to correctly train for either on their own....basically the jest of your post.

Coming from someone who used to struggle with gaining weight until I learned how to correctly train (and more importantly eat), I can tell you that if you plan on climbing multiple x's a week and mixing in lifting with the goal of gaining muscle weight, ie. "bulking", you're just going to be spinning your wheels and are going to burn out with zero weight gain. An educated guess tells me that while you are burning out on your quest to getting "teh hyooge gunzorz" and "teh pecz of steel" your climbing will also suffer.

Regardless of what I think is going to happen to you, to answer your question my schedule is usually this:

Sun: weights
Mon: gym bouldering
Tue: off
Wed: climbing
Thur: weights
Fri: off
Sat: climbing

It changes around and there are days of high intensity and low intensity as well as days of training for strength and days for endurance (for both climbing and lifting). Training at your max for both climbing and lifting will surely burn you out and/or cause injury. Like I said before, it's important to know how to train for each seperately before you go just blindly trying to do both. You will not meet any of your goals that way...trust me.

Your entire post was full of assumptions and insults...you definitely wasted 5 mins of your life writing that.


Mike805


Mar 2, 2008, 8:27 PM
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Re: [heyjoe16] Another Weight Lifting/Climbing Schedule [In reply to]
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I'm not insulting you, you admitted that you "just climb whatever" and it's obvious that you don't know much about training with weights. I'm merely suggesting that you understand training before just blindly going at it. You can't cut and bulk at the same tim and bulking, ie. gaining weight, and climbing don't really mix well either.

I'm just trying to point out that your "goals" are contradicting. Not hating, just being straightforward and trying to get you to pick a single path. I'll leave you alone now but if you have any questions regarding weight training let me know.


calpiger


Mar 14, 2008, 2:27 AM
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Re: [heyjoe16] Another Weight Lifting/Climbing Schedule [In reply to]
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heyjoe16 wrote:
I saw a similar thread just a few posts down but my plan is pretty different so I'll just make my own. Basically I've weightlifted off and on for the past couple years and I've started up again seriously these past two weeks. I also have a membership to a climbing gym and climb 3 times a week. As far as priorities, I love climbing but I'm also starting college next fall and want to get as ripped as possible before then...so about equal I guess. The biggest thing I'm wondering is if you guys think I'll see any gains with this plan. I know if I'm overworking I'll build endurance,but risk injury and probably won't see any gains in mass...Anyway, my current plan is as follows:

Monday-Shoulders/back+ 1h30min gym climbing
Tuesday-Rest day
Wednesday-Chest/Biceps/Triceps
Thursday-2h30min climbing
Friday-Rest day
Saturday-Legs+2h30min climbing

Btw, I climb with a partner so it's not like straight-up climbing for 2 1/2 hours or something.Thanks in advance for your help!!

Edit:Sunday is also a rest day
If you are climbing that often I would suggest spending one day working only your antagonist muscles (i.e. forearm extensors, rotator cuffs, lower back, triceps). This is going to help prevent injuries that can develop and keep you from climbing.


hyongx


Mar 19, 2008, 9:34 PM
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Re: [calpiger] Another Weight Lifting/Climbing Schedule [In reply to]
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Joe -
I have been climbing for slightly over four years and lifting for about three. I am a college sophomore, so I think I am in/have been in a situation very similar to where you are. Four years ago I weighed about 130, now I weigh 155 (same height - 5'6") and have the same level of definition I had then, but with greatly improved strength.

My advice to you:
Don't lift before you climb for one reason: Climbing has a lot to do with TECHNIQUE. I think my technique improving has had a larger role in the increase in the difficulty at which I climb than has my strength increase. For me, being tired (like from lifting) makes me climb sloppily, which is a bad habbit.
My lift habbits usually have three days: back/biceps, chest/triceps, and legs/abs. I usually tack my back/bi day on at the end of a climbing session, do some weighted pullups, pegboard, etc, and fore-arm specific exercises. This way I am always still warmed up. I don't do other lift days on climbing days.

Also - don't ignore cardio. It's embarassing when I'm huffin and puffin on the approach trail and my friends are not. Put some cardio on your rest days, or tack it on after your chest/tri or legs workouts.

Finally - listen to your body. If your elbow/wrist tweaks/pops/hurts - stop. take a week off. Better to be overly cautious than to suffer a minor injury that develops into a life-long problem due to overuse and abuse.

Joe- good luck. Make sure you climb outside - thats where the real fun is.


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