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3 Day Push, How Much Gas & Food?
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jhump


Oct 27, 2002, 6:02 AM
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3 Day Push, How Much Gas & Food?
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Hypothetical:
You are climbing a 9000' snow/ice/mixed route in Alaska. You plan to blast up it in 3 days, but you never know if the weather will close on you before you finish. Your packs weigh 21 lbs maximum, any more you may have to haul to get past the cruxes, extending your climb by a few days.

Question:
How much gas do you bring, and what kind of food? Remember the 21 and under rule stated above.


clymber


Oct 27, 2002, 7:03 AM
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Not really sure how much of each to bring but you need to plan for that hypothetical 2 day snow storm that will hit since you are planning on doing it in 3 days


coconutz


Oct 27, 2002, 8:43 PM
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It depends on the type of stove you are using. I do not have to much expernce with cartrage stoves in HIGH and COLD places so my advice on those little guys wouldn't be worth much.
Of the liquid stove varity, well I can help a little. I know that it takes approx. 15-30 min to melt a chunk of snow/ice in a pan to a liquid form. This of course varies with stove, fuel type, if it is snow or ice and if the snow is very compact or very granulated like powder. I would aim for 25 min for a 2 liter Ti MSR pot with the lid and the heat reflector and the wind screen on an XGK assuming that you put approx 1/2 to 1/4 to 3/4 of a liter in the pan to help out the melting. Based on that you can do the calc yourself. i.e. how much water you are going to need for a)climbing b)eating. I assume since the climbing season is over up there that you will be doing it by the earliest, next season. you live in an area where it snows, a little, like me. so as son as it snows take out your stove you will climb with and use tha gas you will be using and experment with water v/s snow ammounts to get the fastest melt times = least amount of fuel. This is not something to figure out in basecamp, you should have it down to damn near the ounce if you are going to go light on the Cassin. Once you have your oz. per liter of water figured out it's easy.
so lets say two of you...........at 4 liters a day to drink (which is not a lot) that = 8 liters for drinking only. say you figure out you need 1.5 oz. of fuel per oz of water to bring it to a liquid state, not boiling. That would be 12oz for drinking water only for a day. and 36 for three days. Bringing water to a boil will require more fuel and more weight, so you only boil or get REAL HOT for meals to save fuel and weight. Now if you can figure out how to only have one hot meal a day you'll be golden.
As for food, my suggestion is hunt around on the web for a BMR (Basic/Basiel(sp?) metabolic Rate). This will give you the amount of calories you need to consume per day to maintain a current body weight. It can not predict the furture and it can't tell you about the past.
If you are X inches tall and are X years old and are X weight NOW and you have X amount of caloires a day you should yeild an amount of calories to keep your CURRENT weight. There are many 'exerction levels' to pic from when calculating it and obviously you pic the highest (olympic/professional/tranning/what ever) to yeild your calories. now you should go hunt out a food that is easy to digest, full of calories, easy to make (hot) and most of all light. you can have you caloric intake down to the amount of calories per day and take just the right amount of food and no extra. I'd suggest complex and simple sugaras and carbos and so fat as well (olive oil works good, tastes OK but works great).

IF you can get both of these numbers figured out, you should be soild on the amount of a) fuel you need per day per person for water and cooking and b) the exact amount of calories you'll need perday to maintain a current body (which isn't going to happen, you'll lose weight, but you can try to cut you losses and not lose much through planning).

[ This Message was edited by: coconutz on 2002-10-27 20:44 ]


holygecko


Oct 29, 2002, 6:43 AM
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don't bring any food and call it a diet hahahahahahahahahahahahaha


tradguy


Oct 29, 2002, 7:19 AM
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Bring extra gas, skimp on the food. You can live for weeks without adequate food, but only days without water. If you get hunkered down in a storm and run out of gas, you will be truly f*cked.

We always figured it on the 2's for our MSR stove:

2 people for 2 days need 22 ounces of fuel (one medium MSR bottle)

This always allowed us plenty to melt snow for water, cook hot dinners (lipton pasta & sauce meals), and have about 1 L of hot water for breakfast (1 cup of cider and packet of oatmeal each). If you didn't have hot meals, you might get by with less.

Just remember that if you plan on 3 days, you could easily have an additional 3 days of bad weather. If you get hunkered down in a storm, you could live with lower water intake and cold meals, so you could ration out your fuel to maybe 3 days for one 22 ounce bottle, but I wouldn't recommend much thinner than this. So maybe bring 1 full liter bottle, and 1 22-ounce bottle for back-up/emergency (this is assuming 2 people). This would be absolute minimal in my opinion. Estimate 4 pounds for this much fuel and the two bottles.

Other good food items:
Tuna in the pouch - not the lightest but very good climbing food.
String cheese, or perhaps just a block of swiss - again not light, but lots of calories.
Squeeze tube full of peanut butter.
GU - this stuff rocks. Absolute necessity for going light.


[ This Message was edited by: tradguy on 2002-10-29 07:29 ]


grippedclimber


Oct 29, 2002, 5:45 PM
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I would say that before you try to blast a 9000ft route in Alaska in three days you should get a lot of experience, enough to become familiar with the amount of food and water that you will need to get by on. It has taken me years to get my systems down and still I'm not confident enough to do something that commiting.(soon I will be) I think that if you don't know right away what you need to bring for something like that than you should probably use more conservative tactics or else pick a different objective. If it is going to take 3 days to do 9000ft it must be a pretty hard line so I would also think that it would be real hard to stay under 21lbs. If your not hauling you should be able to bust 9000 in 2 days no problem I do know from experience that canister stoves suck for altitude and cold. The XGK is the way to go for snow and ice melting. Mark Twight's Famous/Infamous book has a lot of great tips that I have adapted to my own style. The key I think is adapting this s--- to your own style. Everyone has good advice, but experience is the mother teacher. 3 days on a hard route in AK is balls out and you better have your s--- together before you let your balls out. GU is the Shiat and so is peanut butter. Lots of good advice from those dudes who replied before me. I just think that you should know what works for you before you commit to something that sick. If it becomes more than hypothetical, good luck to you and you are the shiat bliatch!


highambitions


Oct 30, 2002, 9:45 AM
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Son, this is a great project for us to do some research on. Since we are going to the Whites this January, we can carefully monitor our water, food, and gas consumption on the traverse, minus the altitude. What do you think? Dad


grippedclimber


Oct 30, 2002, 6:25 PM
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That's the right idea!!


kman


Oct 31, 2002, 12:20 AM
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20lbs for 3 days eh?have another


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