|
bullit
Oct 29, 2002, 12:05 AM
Post #1 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 15, 2002
Posts: 22
|
I have heard that you should always clip bolts from right to left. It is said that if you clip the other way, you risk the bolt hanger pening the gate of the biner.
Any ideas if this is true or not?
Bullit
|
|
|
|
|
pelliott
Oct 29, 2002, 12:15 AM
Post #2 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 10, 2002
Posts: 317
|
No...
You clip the bolt based on where you will be climbing in relation to the bolt. Left to right if you are climbing on the left. Right to left if you are climbing on the right. I learned this from Les (fo_d).
|
|
|
|
|
boduke
Oct 29, 2002, 1:01 AM
Post #3 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2002
Posts: 12
|
Does it really matter? I mean, when I first learned how to sport climb I was told that depending on the direction I climb from the bolt. The gate of the lower biner should be in the oppisite direction that you are climbing. e.g. if climbing left the gate should be facing right. I've never really found this to be an issue. I might have thought about it at one point in time but I sure don't think about it anymore mainly becuase I don't think it matters. I've never heard nor read of an incident where the biner has opened during a fall therefore allowing the rope to fly out. And since I don't think this kind of clipping would affect the strength of the biner, actual 'failure' of the biner is out. I've also never heard this as a possible recommendation after an incident. So personally I don't think it matters which way you clip the bolts. On a side note I think this arguement may be true for backclipping also.
[ This Message was edited by: boduke on 2002-10-28 18:14 ]
|
|
|
|
|
spoon
Oct 29, 2002, 1:15 AM
Post #4 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 26, 2002
Posts: 312
|
Backclipping, is not some myth that people use to scare new climbers. If you backclip, and fall the wrong way you will unclip. Look at the pictures at http://www.altrec.com/published/climb/skills/backclipwhat/
|
|
|
|
|
sushislayer
Oct 29, 2002, 1:20 AM
Post #5 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 6, 2002
Posts: 709
|
Spoon's right, backclip and you could be taking the express elevator to decking.
|
|
|
|
|
boulderingmadman
Oct 29, 2002, 1:33 AM
Post #6 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 14, 2002
Posts: 448
|
theyre not talking about backclipping. theyre talking about the act of clipping the draw into the bolt...right??
anyhow, if thats what you ARE talking about, the direction is un-important. what IS important is whether or not the gate is against the surface of the rock. in other words, can the gate be popped open on a flake or bulge or even just a crystal in the rock? also, "backlash" can cause problems. thats when you fall, the quickdraw bounces from the force, the impact of the 'biner hitting against the rock can sometimes cause the gate to pop open, regardless of how carefully you clipped into the bolt. theres not much you can do about this except lower the weight of the gate by using wiregates...
however, backclipping adn z-clipping ARE important things to consider when clipping the rope into the draw. to avoid backclipping, always make sure that YOUR end of the rope is ALWAYS between you and the belayer's end.
a z-clip is rather self-explanatory. if you are climbing a zig-zagging route where it is possible to grab the rope for a clip from in between the last two clipped bolts, you can actually neutralize your protection and cause EXTREMELY dangerous falls. to prevent these, ALWAYS ensure that youre "pulling up rope" for a clip from ABOVE the last clipped bolt...
climb safely and have fun
[ This Message was edited by: boulderingmadman on 2002-10-28 17:35 ]
[ This Message was edited by: boulderingmadman on 2002-10-28 17:36 ]
|
|
|
|
|
jhundrup
Oct 29, 2002, 2:04 AM
Post #7 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 17, 2001
Posts: 410
|
I think what boduke was saying is (backclipping aside) does it matter which way the gate (of the biner you are clipping the rope into) is facing? The answer is yes it does, even without backclipping, you can have the rope come through a biner depending on the location. I am not sure how to describe it, but the gate should always be facing away from the direction that you are climbing.
Jared
|
|
|
|
|
boduke
Oct 29, 2002, 2:31 AM
Post #8 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 25, 2002
Posts: 12
|
backclipping is another issue, sorry. Boulderingmadman is correct is his assertion about the biner orientation to the rock (ie buldges, edges, ect.) and that would effect any decision you make on clipping a bolt (One would hope the bolt is placed well enough that this isn't an issue). I think there are two issues here. First, the way the quickdraw is clipped to the bolt, barring any problems with rock, doesn't really matter. Right to left, left to right whatever. Second, the direction the rope is clipped into the quickdraw I believe doesn't make a difference. If you are climbing left from the bolt general consensus says gate should face right. Now I can understand the theory of what might happen, but what are the real chances of this happening. I've seen lots of people clip ropes any direction they please and nothing comes of it. I don't see it as an issue.
|
|
|
|
|
jt512
Oct 29, 2002, 2:33 AM
Post #9 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 12, 2001
Posts: 21904
|
This was discussed here: http://www.rockclimbing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic=15830&forum=16&start=0 recently, along with a few entertaining arguments.
-Jay
[ This Message was edited by: jt512 on 2002-10-28 18:34 ]
|
|
|
|
|
pelliott
Oct 29, 2002, 5:52 AM
Post #10 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 10, 2002
Posts: 317
|
I found two pictures that illustrate the bolt side clipping issue extremely well.
In both of these pictures, the climber mistakenly faced the gate of the biner in the direction of travel. By facing the gate away from the direction of travel, both of these problems would be avoided.
As far as the rope side goes, you can see BD's recommendation in this picture.
The gate again needs to be away from the direction of travel. In this case to prevent the bent gate from catching on the rope in a fall.
To prevent unclipping on both the rope side and the bolt side, you need the gates of both biners pointing the same way on your draws and you clip with these gates pointed away from your line of travel.
I hope this is now as clear as mud.
[ This Message was edited by: pelliott on 2002-10-28 21:59 ]
|
|
|
|
|
djmicro
Oct 30, 2002, 5:45 AM
Post #11 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 14, 2002
Posts: 73
|
It is quite funny how your climbing style changes after someone show you how easy rope unclips when you don't clip correctly.
|
|
|
|
|
duskerhu
Oct 30, 2002, 6:43 AM
Post #12 of 12
(3598 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 13, 2002
Posts: 1023
|
Nice pics pelliott...
What pelliotts upper pics show is, by clipping the bolt biner backwards (facing the direction you're climbing), when you climb past that bolt and above it, the draw can be pulled up by the rope, and the gate of the biner can slip into the bolt hanger hole. (hows that for a run-on sentence...) If you fall on that draw in that position, you risk the biner comming off the hanger, or torqueing the gate in the hole of the hanger.
If you want to just clip bolts/hangers any old way, its your skin vs. the dirt. I'll clip the safest way I know how...
Live Free!
Play Hard!
Climb On!
duskerhu
|
|
|
|
|
|
