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Alpine07


Apr 6, 2008, 2:44 PM
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Roped solo aid climb
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I had been considering trying out solo aid climbing ever since stymingersfink suggested it to me last year. Here is an overview of what I did: the first couple placement were pretty smooth, started top stepping by the second one. After those its started getting a little nervewracking, three real sketchy nut placements in a row had me a little worried that if I fell I might hit the deck, but it ended well. So I rapped down, cleaned the route, and prussiked back up. It was not a full pitch, but I wanted to pull my pack up before some crazy redneck ran off with it. I decided at this point to switch over to trad, because I was starting to run out of time, and the aid climbing was going very very slowly.

I think it would have been much easier if I had real aiders, not the slings that I had girth hitched together. But it was an enjoyable experience. If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them. Thanks.


coastal_climber


Apr 6, 2008, 3:07 PM
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Re: [Alpine07] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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Get some jugs.

>Cam


austin.timm


Apr 6, 2008, 4:27 PM
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Re: [Alpine07] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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search eBay... usually you can find some used aid slings on there that won't completely break the piggy bank. other than that keep playing around you'll get better in a hurry.


moose_droppings


Apr 6, 2008, 5:13 PM
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Re: [Alpine07] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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You doing some A3, C3 already? What do you mean sketchy nuts. Sometimes that all you get, but when you can, bounce test those suckers till there is nothing sketchy about em. Sure eases the mind. If your cleaning, you'll only have yourself to yell at.

This guys are right, get your self a set of aiders and something to jug with. Jumar, tibloc, either are a little quicker than a prusik.


Alpine07


Apr 6, 2008, 7:23 PM
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Re: [moose_droppings] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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Well when cleaning the pitch I realized that I had misjudged the first "sketchy one," and it turned out to be pretty good. The second one there wasnt much of a crack to put it in, and it popped out when I unweighted it. And I'm pretty darn sure that the third would not have held a fall. So it was not as bad as I thought it was while climbing, but it would have given me a bit of a fall.

Yeah, I will be getting aiders and jugs when I have the right amount of funds to do so, haha. Oh yeah, to anyone thats thinking about starting up aid climbing type Dr. Piton into the search funtion and you will get loads of good info. Thanks!


Partner xtrmecat


Apr 7, 2008, 3:50 PM
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Re: [Alpine07] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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Moose Droppings is right. Probably good idea to test each and every placement till you either know what is good or it doesn't matter. Going to have a couple aid ladders left over that are in pretty good condition. Only about 20 or 30 pitches on em. They are a BD 5 and a BD 6 step. Would be willing to let em go cheap after my Yosemite trip next month. They are going into the pig as backups in case and adjustable cannot make the whole trip.
Only advice I've got for you is mileage is where the speed comes from. Jugs help a lot and I prefer adjustable daisys to old fashioned ones with fifi's, which I have two extra fifi's I'd part with also.
Go get em.
Bob


Alpine07


Apr 7, 2008, 4:46 PM
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Re: [xtrmecat] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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Hey, I'm always up for a good deal on some gear. Send me a picture when you are done with them if you are serious about selling them. Thanks for the advice.


Tree_wrangler


Apr 7, 2008, 5:19 PM
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Re: [Alpine07] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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In reply to:
The second one there wasnt much of a crack to put it in, and it popped out when I unweighted it.

Still sounds like a valid placement to me, albeit body weight only. If that's all you had, then a high-five to you for finding the only good placement.

The question for you then is, "Did the rock offer me a better option than the one a chose?" And next time, that's a question to ask when choosing the placement, not after you've already come home.....(although hindsight IS 20-20)


Alpine07


Apr 7, 2008, 5:27 PM
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Re: [Tree_wrangler] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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Tree_wrangler wrote:
In reply to:
The second one there wasnt much of a crack to put it in, and it popped out when I unweighted it.

Still sounds like a valid placement to me, albeit body weight only. If that's all you had, then a high-five to you for finding the only good placement.

The question for you then is, "Did the rock offer me a better option than the one a chose?" And next time, that's a question to ask when choosing the placement, not after you've already come home.....(although hindsight IS 20-20)

Oh yeah it worked great for my body weight. And hell no to the second question, I was standing in the top steps of my "aiders" looking for anything. It was indeed the best placement that I could have made at that time with the gear I had. And rapping the route and looking over everything confirmed this.


Alpine07


Apr 7, 2008, 5:29 PM
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Actually, I now see that it was your first question, not second. hehe.


Tree_wrangler


Apr 7, 2008, 5:30 PM
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Welcome to Aid, then.

And like xtremecat suggested, I'll also suggest adjustable daisies. I can't figure out how the old-style still sells.


Alpine07


Apr 7, 2008, 5:33 PM
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Thats good to know. I had been thinking they were just for sissy sport climbers trying out aid.Cool


Alpine07


Apr 8, 2008, 7:48 PM
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So about ascenders. Would it be worth going with something like the petzl mini traxion? That way you have an ascender and a pulley in one device.


Truck


Apr 9, 2008, 5:41 AM
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Re: [Alpine07] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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no.
stick with the jugs.

If you want cheap use tiblocs...but jugs and aiders will make a huge difference over what you are using. If you are not haulin yet and just aiding 1 pitch wonders, you don't need anything but jugs and aiders. if you start needing to haul pigs(as opposed to small packs which you really don't need a pulley for) then a pulley becomes more necessary....but for now, Jugs and aiders


Truck


madbolter1


Apr 9, 2008, 7:43 PM
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Re: [Alpine07] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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I highly recommend aid-bouldering. It won't help much with teaching you efficiency in using your aiders, but there is nothing like it to give you a sense of how to engineer and test placements.

For example, start with just a set of stoppers. Try every conceivable, ridiculous way you can position one to make a placement work. Then work with two or even three. Turn one upside down and stack it beside one right-side up. Let your imagination go crazy.

Same thing with other sorts of gear. Check out combinations. (On one climb I was able to fill a huge crack by stacking the inside cams of friends against one hollow side of hexes in order to fill a huge slot.)

If you aspire to do hard nailing routes, you will benefit from hours spent trying all sorts of piton placements. Again, work with combinations. Try different sorts of tie-off tactics to reduce leverage. You can bring expanding nailing into the realm of reason by mastering the art of "cable camming" using small nuts and pitons together. The options are limitless, and the more experience you have with creative placements, the more you will enjoy (and be safe on) harder and harder routes.

Try hooking. Particularly the tiny form of this art is more rock-type dependent, but it will at least get you used to how hooks flex, creak, chip, etc., and you can learn how to move up on them.

I can't recommend aid bouldering enough. You will learn how to think and engineer with the sort of imagination and confidence that it takes to do wilder and wilder aid routes.

Have a blast! All the best.


kevinhansen


Apr 13, 2008, 7:13 PM
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Re: [madbolter1] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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I once stacked three of my biggest nuts side by side, but never heard of mixing active and passive gear in one placement! If it worked, then it worked.
OK so with Rope Soloing... I spent 4 hours on one pitch of C2. Naturaly a Soloist device would have helped, but the time wasn't lost on tieing and untieing clove hitches. I'm looking for rope soloing tips.
Kevin
I'm always looking for a partner.
I live 1 hour from ZION and have Fridays and Saturdays off, drop me a line.
kevin_likes_to_climb_much
@hotmail.com


stymingersfink


Apr 17, 2008, 12:39 PM
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Re: [Alpine07] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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well, since you took me up on that suggestion, perhaps you'll take me up on a couple more:

Until you've got enough experience to be able to predict possible outcomes, don't try doin' sketch placements anytime where failure will result in a groundstrike. Hold off on the sketchy nuts till you're off the ground far enough with good gear under you to keep you in one piece.

Don't EVER look at your gear while you test it.

ALWAYS wear a helmet.

Petzl makes the best jugs, IMHO.

Ladder-style aiders (like Misty or Yates) are better than the offset-style (like BD makes)

Two standard-style daisies, one Kong adjustable fifi. The adjustable aiders/adjustable daisies are best left for jugging (IMO), the adjustable fifi is fucking key though on challenging pitches.

Kneepads of the volleyball variety. A layer or two of duct tape over the surface of them should extend their service life quite well.

Dedicated static line once you start hauling. 70M line is handy, especially if pitches traverse, as the tail can be used to lower out the bag.

Mariner's knot for docking pigs.

Take everything you read with a grain of salt. Try it out, see how it works for you, but don't settle into one particular method till you've had the chance to compare it with a similar one which may be just as effective but fits your style better.


kevinhansen


Apr 18, 2008, 6:45 PM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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stymingersfink wrote:
Dedicated static line once you start hauling. 70M line is handy, especially if pitches traverse, as the tail can be used to lower out the bag.
Mariner's knot for docking pigs.

Yes yes all very good advice, infact I bought a 100 meter Bluewater static line while in the Big Ditch 5 years ago and have since had to slice had to retire it. I'm thinking about getting another one because it was nice to haul once every 2-3 pitches if the route would permit.
What I'm looking for is a way to speed up the Roped SOLO process. This is what I do so far;
1) build multiDirectional anchor at the base.
2) Lead pitch using self belay on Silent Partner (or GriGri or Clove hitches) cliping dynamic line.
3) Build new MultiDirectional Anchor & fix both lines to chains, then Rap to base on static line clipping it to pro for directional help while cleaning.
4) Clean bottom anchor, then Jumar (with Petzl Jugs) up the static line while cleaning.
5) Haul when 100 meter line runs out, with pig hanging off of a Fifi hook.

Is there a better way? Cuz this takes FOREVER!
Any tricks that speed things up? I've tried the counter weight haul using the "Mini-triaxion" and I like it, bit you get to haul more often.
kevin
Attachments: KevinTouchstone0408.JPG (114 KB)


foolry


Apr 18, 2008, 6:54 PM
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Re: [stymingersfink] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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stymingersfink wrote:

Two standard-style daisies, one Kong adjustable fifi. The adjustable aiders/adjustable daisies are best left for jugging (IMO), the adjustable fifi is fucking key though on challenging pitches.
I'll second that, the Kong adjustible fifi is my most prized aid climbing possesion. What device (if any) are you using to self belay? The gri-gri has always worked for me but I know Petzl doesnt' reccomend it. I feel it's fine as long as you back it up with cloves.
Thomas


stymingersfink


Apr 21, 2008, 10:43 AM
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Re: [foolry] Roped solo aid climb [In reply to]
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foolry wrote:
stymingersfink wrote:

Two standard-style daisies, one Kong adjustable fifi. The adjustable aiders/adjustable daisies are best left for jugging (IMO), the adjustable fifi is fucking key though on challenging pitches.
I'll second that, the Kong adjustible fifi is my most prized aid climbing possesion. What device (if any) are you using to self belay? The gri-gri has always worked for me but I know Petzl doesnt' reccomend it. I feel it's fine as long as you back it up with cloves.
Thomas
Grigri (unmodified), clove b/u under that, with klemheist re-belay (usually about mid-pitch) to support the weight of the rope when it starts to self-feed through the gri.


Alpine07


Apr 21, 2008, 3:47 PM
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stymingersfink wrote:
well, since you took me up on that suggestion, perhaps you'll take me up on a couple more:

Until you've got enough experience to be able to predict possible outcomes, don't try doin' sketch placements anytime where failure will result in a groundstrike. Hold off on the sketchy nuts till you're off the ground far enough with good gear under you to keep you in one piece.

Don't EVER look at your gear while you test it.

ALWAYS wear a helmet.

Petzl makes the best jugs, IMHO.

Ladder-style aiders (like Misty or Yates) are better than the offset-style (like BD makes)

Two standard-style daisies, one Kong adjustable fifi. The adjustable aiders/adjustable daisies are best left for jugging (IMO), the adjustable fifi is fucking key though on challenging pitches.

Kneepads of the volleyball variety. A layer or two of duct tape over the surface of them should extend their service life quite well.

Dedicated static line once you start hauling. 70M line is handy, especially if pitches traverse, as the tail can be used to lower out the bag.

Mariner's knot for docking pigs.

Take everything you read with a grain of salt. Try it out, see how it works for you, but don't settle into one particular method till you've had the chance to compare it with a similar one which may be just as effective but fits your style better.

Well thank ya for the advice. Although, having just bought a new rope and topped off my set of cams (going to Colorado next month, Wooohoo) I dont think I can afford any more gear for a good while. So aid climbing gear is going to have to hold off until I have the proper funds. Thanks!


kevinhansen


Apr 21, 2008, 9:53 PM
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stymingersfink wrote:
foolry wrote:
stymingersfink wrote:

Two standard-style daisies, one Kong adjustable fifi. The adjustable aiders/adjustable daisies are best left for jugging (IMO), the adjustable fifi is fucking key though on challenging pitches.
I'll second that, the Kong adjustible fifi is my most prized aid climbing possesion. What device (if any) are you using to self belay? The gri-gri has always worked for me but I know Petzl doesnt' reccomend it. I feel it's fine as long as you back it up with cloves.
Thomas
Grigri (unmodified), clove b/u under that, with klemheist re-belay (usually about mid-pitch) to support the weight of the rope when it starts to self-feed through the gri.

I just got an adjustable Fi-Fi from Kong based on your reviews, sounds like its worth it. Any diagrams on how to thread it? What size cordage works best?

After seening Ron Olevsky cruze the bolt ladder in his movie "Clean Walls" I tryed his Daisyless approach. I love it! Use three aiders and only one has a regular Daisey.
1st I clip daisyless aider directly into the top piece with an oval, then the daiseyed aider into that. The daiseyed aider is the last on and first off each placement. Advantages; higher top step cuz I'm one biner closer. Sometimes the next placement is farther away than a daisey will reach. If test piece blows, I keep everything cuz its all clipped to the oval. No falls onto the last piece with an inelastic daisey, I clip the rope before instead. Drawbacks: unlearn dropping aiders because they aren't tethered anymore.
I've soloed on a GriGri which I should back up, but... However this week I'm expecting a Silent Partner in the mail. Now I have to back it up as per the instructions.
What are the advantages to the continuous loop method to self belay? Is it realy worth all that extra rigging? I'm looking for tips to speed things up.
Kevin


stymingersfink


Apr 22, 2008, 9:49 AM
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kevinhansen wrote:

I just got an adjustable Fi-Fi from Kong based on your reviews, sounds like its worth it. Any diagrams on how to thread it? What size cordage works best?
Mammut accessory cord of the 7mm variety. IIRC, kong recommends 8mm, and I found the 8mm to be too thick to be fed through the device handily. I'll see if i can find a pic in my archive...
kevinhansen wrote:
After seening Ron Olevsky cruze the bolt ladder in his movie "Clean Walls" I tryed his Daisyless approach. I love it! Use three aiders and only one has a regular Daisey.
Watched it, had some good info in there, that's for sure. I like his "T'd Off" approach, find myself using it on easy clean aid when I'm using just two aid ladders (no third floater). I still use two daisies though. (See below)

kevinhansen wrote:
1st I clip daisyless aider directly into the top piece with an oval, then the daiseyed aider into that. The daiseyed aider is the last on and first off each placement. Advantages; higher top step cuz I'm one biner closer. Sometimes the next placement is farther away than a daisey will reach. If test piece blows, I keep everything cuz its all clipped to the oval. No falls onto the last piece with an inelastic daisey, I clip the rope before instead. Drawbacks: unlearn dropping aiders because they aren't tethered anymore.
There are advantages and disadvantages to any system you will find yourself using. The question will always be: can you work safely within those limitations?

With the kong adjustable fifi, hook it through your highest aider biner, making sure it's hooked on the side with unfettered access to the spine of the biner. When you high-step, the hook will be sliding up the inside of the biner to the top of it. You'd better be ready for it, else it can be a bit of a startle.

You are aware that Fish makes a 72" daisy, right?


kevinhansen wrote:
I've soloed on a GriGri which I should back up, but... However this week I'm expecting a Silent Partner in the mail. Now I have to back it up as per the instructions.
yeah. regardless if there are instructions or not, it's always a good idea to back yer shit up.

kevinhansen wrote:

What are the advantages to the continuous loop method to self belay? Is it realy worth all that extra rigging?
Can't answer that, as I've never bothered to try the "continuous loop" method of CF'age.

kevinhansen wrote:
I'm looking for tips to speed things up.
Kevin
don't get too comfortable, stay motivated to move UP. don't dink around with something that's good enough, don't waste time testing stuff that you know ain't good enough.


kristoffer


Apr 23, 2008, 6:44 PM
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solo, you people are crazy!!!

Zephyr


kevinhansen


May 1, 2008, 10:30 AM
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Last weekend I Soloed Touchstone Wall this Friday and Saturday and I employed the continuous loop method. I LOVE IT! I only had to haul 3 times while on the wall. (Hauling takes the most time so the less I do it the better) I had enough gear to run Pitches 2,3,4 all together then haul at the top. It took so long to rap and clean I lost feeling in my legs.
Several times the Silent Partner turned into its own Cluster F. It would have been tonz better if I could have tied the Clove hitch upside down. So the tails of the lines exit the bottom of the device rather than the top. This would be significantly easier to feed the rope through on lead. What say ya'll. I noticed that the silent partner would short rope me a lot. Especially when I'm steping up into the top steps on small gear, or when I had to bust a free move once and a while.
Kevin

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