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jeremy11
May 1, 2008, 9:27 PM
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If Dr Piton is still lurking here, I've read you heartily endorse the Frog System for ascending as the better way. Is this still the best even for lower angle terrain, or just for near vertical and overhanging?
(for the few times you actually need to jug on lower angle terrain)
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the_climber
May 1, 2008, 10:06 PM
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Pete got the permanent banz from the Management. He's still over on the Taco though.
As for your question, personally I avoid the Frog System for jugging on low angle terrain. Prefering to use a more typical jumaring set-up so as I have a one foot free to use on the rock.
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stymingersfink
May 1, 2008, 10:42 PM
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jeremy11 wrote: If Dr Piton is still lurking here, I've read you heartily endorse the Frog System for ascending as the better way. Is this still the best even for lower angle terrain, or just for near vertical and overhanging? (for the few times you actually need to jug on lower angle terrain)
that's what my experience teels me, but YMMV
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jeremy11
May 1, 2008, 10:45 PM
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yeah, I was kinda thinking that might be the case. basically I don't want to get both two handled ascenders and a chest ascender, but I'm sure the chest ascender could be rigged for normal ascending too. I've tried the Frog system in a cave once for 40 feet on vertical/free-hanging.
so, as a right hander, would I want to get a right handled ascender and a chest ascender, or a left handled ascender and a chest ascender. Also account for cleaning aid the controversial Dr Piton says a Grigri and a handled ascender.
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stymingersfink
May 1, 2008, 10:51 PM
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jeremy11 wrote: yeah, I was kinda thinking that might be the case. basically I don't want to get both two handled ascenders and a chest ascender, but I'm sure the chest ascender could be rigged for normal ascending too. I've tried the Frog system in a cave once for 40 feet on vertical/free-hanging. so, as a right hander, would I want to get a right handled ascender and a chest ascender, or a left handled ascender and a chest ascender. Also account for cleaning aid the controversial Dr Piton says a Grigri and a handled ascender.
It's fairly easy, for the few times you'll be Froggin', to rig the handled ascender to your chest.
The "convenience" of having a dedicated chest ascender will fuck you if you don't have a pair handled ascender when it comes time to body-haul that load of pigs.
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pbcowboy77
May 5, 2008, 5:16 AM
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Pete still uses the frog. He talks about it here...
http://www.mountainproject.com/..._aid_pitch/106076312
He posts there a bunch and you can ask him whatever you want.
I'm not big on the frog method, I just use the standard method and use quick short steps. With that said I've never jugged a 200' fixed line on a overhang...
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jeremy11
May 6, 2008, 1:38 AM
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sounds like 2 handled ascenders is the way to go, and it could easily turn into a frog with the only disadvantage being the chest ascender would ride a little bit higher than a croll type.
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stymingersfink
May 6, 2008, 2:00 AM
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pbcowboy77 wrote: Pete still uses the frog. He talks about it here... http://www.mountainproject.com/..._aid_pitch/106076312 He posts there a bunch and you can ask him whatever you want. I'm not big on the frog method, I just use the standard method and use quick short steps. With that said I've never jugged a 200' fixed line on a overhang...
Even that is easy enough to straight-up jug, but then, you should still be fairly fresh that early in the game.
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quiteatingmysteak
May 6, 2008, 6:11 PM
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jeremy11 wrote: If Dr Piton is still lurking here, I've read you heartily endorse the Frog System for ascending as the better way. Is this still the best even for lower angle terrain, or just for near vertical and overhanging? (for the few times you actually need to jug on lower angle terrain)
Here is exactly what Pete would tell you!
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/big_wall_and_aid_climbing/jugging_the_froggy_way/106076796
http://www.mountainproject.com/v/big_wall_and_aid_climbing/the_better_way_to_clean_an_aid_pitch/106076312]
That second link is the way I've been cleaning steep walls. It is emphatically "the sh!t."
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stymingersfink
May 6, 2008, 8:01 PM
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quiteatingmysteak wrote: jeremy11 wrote: If Dr Piton is still lurking here, I've read you heartily endorse the Frog System for ascending as the better way. Is this still the best even for lower angle terrain, or just for near vertical and overhanging? (for the few times you actually need to jug on lower angle terrain) Here is exactly what Pete would tell you! Frog style The "Better" Way That second link is the way I've been cleaning steep walls. It is emphatically "the sh!t." 
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quiteatingmysteak
May 6, 2008, 8:26 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: quiteatingmysteak wrote: jeremy11 wrote: If Dr Piton is still lurking here, I've read you heartily endorse the Frog System for ascending as the better way. Is this still the best even for lower angle terrain, or just for near vertical and overhanging? (for the few times you actually need to jug on lower angle terrain) Here is exactly what Pete would tell you! Frog style The "Better" Way That second link is the way I've been cleaning steep walls. It is emphatically "the sh!t." clicky linky. The better way to post links
thanks. I'm no good at the linkeage
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mawk
Jun 19, 2008, 5:56 PM
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I just posted a video of Pete going up a free hanging line using a Petzl Pantin. We both found it to be ETS. Highly recommended.
BTW. This is either the 2nd or 3rd pitch of South Seas.
Watch here
(This post was edited by mawk on Jun 19, 2008, 9:11 PM)
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stymingersfink
Jun 19, 2008, 6:29 PM
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mawk wrote: I just posted a video of Pete going up a free hanging line using a Petzl Pantin. We both found it to be ETS. Highly recommended. BTW. This is either the 2nd or 3rd pitch of South Seas.
FAIL!
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kevinhansen
Jun 20, 2008, 10:29 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: mawk wrote: I just posted a video of Pete going up a free hanging line using a Petzl Pantin. We both found it to be ETS. Highly recommended. BTW. This is either the 2nd or 3rd pitch of South Seas. It's METS to post linkey thingys too. FAIL!
You mean that blue guy was thee Dr. Piton? I thought he was French!? LOL I pictured this thin long hair, wearing Lycra tights, tank top, and a snorkel mask. Is his ledge is a CANADIAN flag? So why did RC.com kick him off? What'd he do to yank them the wrong way? I'll take text, links, and url's for answers.
Kevin
P.S.
I've been studying his posts for sometime now and I think he's got some inovative ways of doing things. The Wallflower thing could take a hike, but by and large he's A OK in my book.
(This post was edited by kevinhansen on Jun 20, 2008, 10:32 PM)
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stymingersfink
Jun 21, 2008, 7:14 AM
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kevinhansen wrote: stymingersfink wrote: mawk wrote: I just posted a video of Pete going up a free hanging line using a Petzl Pantin. We both found it to be ETS. Highly recommended. BTW. This is either the 2nd or 3rd pitch of South Seas. It's METS to post linkey thingys too. FAIL! LOL I pictured this thin long hair, wearing Lycra tights, tank top, and a snorkel mask. Is his ledge is a CANADIAN flag? So why did RC.com kick him off? What'd he do to yank them the wrong way? I'll take text, links, and url's for answers. Kevin P.S. I've been studying his posts for sometime now and I think he's got some inovative ways of doing things. The Wallflower thing could ta ke a hike, but by and large he's A OK in my book.
Yes, it's maid out to be.
I'll not repeat the reason, as its only heresay from me, though I will say it was previous management (though the 86 was upheld by the current management as well)
"Study" his posts, sure, but recognize too that much of his "content" is WAAAAAY more complicated than the average wall climber will ever need or use (average meaning someone who doesn't work in an office for 50 weeks outta the year, with no serious gym time to compensate for the lack of physical activity)
You've obviously never met the man, have you?
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kevinhansen
Jun 21, 2008, 10:46 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: kevinhansen wrote: stymingersfink wrote: mawk wrote: I just posted a video of Pete going up a free hanging line using a Petzl Pantin. We both found it to be ETS. Highly recommended. BTW. This is either the 2nd or 3rd pitch of South Seas. It's METS to post linkey thingys too. FAIL! LOL I pictured this thin long hair, wearing Lycra tights, tank top, and a snorkel mask. Is his ledge is a CANADIAN flag? So why did RC.com kick him off? What'd he do to yank them the wrong way? I'll take text, links, and url's for answers. Kevin P.S. I've been studying his posts for sometime now and I think he's got some inovative ways of doing things. The Wallflower thing could ta ke a hike, but by and large he's A OK in my book.
I'll not repeat the reason, as its only heresay from me, though I will say it was previous management (though the 86 was upheld by the current management as well)
"Study" his posts, sure, but recognize too that much of his "content" is WAAAAAY more complicated than the average wall climber will ever need or use (average meaning someone who doesn't work in an office for 50 weeks outta the year, with no serious gym time to compensate for the lack of physical activity)
You've obviously never met the man, have you?
Kevin
Where is his hometown?
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camhead
Jun 21, 2008, 11:15 PM
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watched the video. his voice is as annoying as I have heard. heh.
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hafilax
Jun 22, 2008, 12:32 AM
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PTPP learned most of what he knows from working with Chongo and editing his book (which is a tome from what I hear). You can get Chongo's Big Wall book from:
http://www.chongonation.com
He's got a new one coming out called the Quotable Chongo which looks to be hilarious. I have my doubts about his books on physics but they could be interesting.
I read an interview with Chongo where he was pretty choked at PTPP publishing some of his ideas as Dr. Piton in R&I without acknowledgment.
If you look hard enough you can find hints of some pretty hateful attitudes toward PTPP. Most of the meat has been removed by the moderators of the various sites though.
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stymingersfink
Jun 22, 2008, 2:13 AM
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hafilax wrote: PTPP learned most of what he knows from working with Chongo and editing his book (which is a tome from what I hear). You can get Chongo's Big Wall book from: http://www.chongonation.com He's got a new one coming out called the Quotable Chongo which looks to be hilarious. I have my doubts about his books on physics but they could be interesting. I read an interview with Chongo where he was pretty choked at PTPP publishing some of his ideas as Dr. Piton in R&I without acknowledgment. If you look hard enough you can find hints of some pretty hateful attitudes toward PTPP. Most of the meat has been removed by the moderators of the various sites though.
The thing about PTPP's posts here, is that generally they are very difficult for someone with no walling experience to really "get". Hell, even for someone with some time spent on a portaledge his posts are like "WTF?, Over". Admittedly, I've not gotten on routes where I was expecting to haul enough supplies for 10+ days, so my need for extremely complicated systems to move massive quantities of junk up a wall was hovering around NIL.
IMHO, any aspiring wall climber (referred to as a BWT by PTPP) who wants to quickly build the specialized skills necessary to get up a really big hunk of stone would be better served trying to prostitute themselves out as someone's haul-bitch to an experienced wall climber. Doing so will allow you to see first hand HOW it is ALL done, as the experienced one would necessarily have to train you as they would want you trained.
For this to be successful, you would first need to build the necessary foundation of skills, such as how to solo-lead with a grigri, how to remove ANY piece of gear, and perhaps how to SUFFER in SILENCE.
I will freely admit that this is how I came to climb big walls, though I will also admit that I've only 3.5 ascents of El Cap under my belt, and none of them longer than 6 nights.
I was working in a gear shop, when a guy wandered in and began looking through the specialized aid pieces. In chatting with him, I found out that he was planning a solo trip up Lunar Eclipse, whereby I offered to meet him in the Valley on the specified date and clean/haul my way up the route (in exchange for him teaching me what I needed to know).
I brought the necessary personal equipment, and on the first day I was taught now to jug a rope while cleaning gear efficiently (I had never jugged before, and though I could do it, it took me a while to learn the efficiencies to be had while doing so). I learned first-hand about the joys of hauling, lowering out, and managing an efficient belay station (even though he solo-aided everything, which IMHO is THE BEST WAY).
In the activity of cleaning I learned more about the finer arts of placing crap gear that would hold than I'd learned in the previous two years of teaching myself trad. I also discovered that with an open mind, I could see how the suffering involved with big wallin' could be (and is) fun.
In summation: IMHO, the best way to learn about big-wallin is to create the opportunity to follow someone experienced enough to teach you what you need to know, FIRST HAND. Put yourself out there, be willing to suffer a bit, be willing to do so in silence. Nobody likes a whiner. Have enough background skills to draw upon that you will be able to solve the problems you encounter with a minimum of explanation. Nobody likes trying to train a dummy.
With a little brains and a lotta heart, you'd probably be surprised what you can accomplish.
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stymingersfink
Jun 22, 2008, 4:37 AM
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wanna learn how to aid climb? See this post here, and plan a trip. Sounds like a good opportunity for someones!
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leo4aclimb
Jun 27, 2008, 12:11 AM
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Hey to all the monkeys...
Ran into Dr. Piton in the valey. he is up on " born under a bad sign " , another sketch fest on the cap... but he'll be back down in couple of weeks and will be happy to answer any questions.
in the meantime, he asked to post this on his behalf :
Hey guys,
'Pass the Pitons' Pete aka Dr. Piton here, writing to you courtesy of Leo and while sitting at a picnic table in Yosemite drinking a cool one, eh?
To answer your questions, I am no longer involved with RC.com, however I have now become the resident Wall Doctor over at the Big Wall and Aid Climbing Forum of Mountain Project dot com. Here is the URL, but I don't know the coding on this forum to make it into a link. Could someone please do that for me? Cheers.
http://www.mountainproject.com/...d_climbing/103989413
I would love nothing more than for people to ask questions over there! I'm heading up El Cap just now for a couple weeks of big wall camping, so please fire away so I [and others] can do our best to answer for you. Also have a look at some of the posts I've written at Mountain Project - you will find them condensed and useful, and without the annoying bold text [sorry 'bout that, eh?] I'm happy to rework some of my old posts from RC.com, splice in some cool new photos, and give you something that's easier to read and understand.
As for a few specific questions above:
I just added the Petzl Pantin ankle ascender to my Frog system, and although it takes some getting used to, it certainly seems to be the Better Way to ascend a fixed rope. Two days ago, I was jugging on BUBS right next to a competent and strong jugger on Zodiac who was using the Yosemite jugging system, and with my Pantin, I was able to literally run up the rope at least four times as fast as he could. So I am now willing to say that even on lower-angle stuff, the Frog system will outperform the Yosemite system, which is new news to me. The Frog has always been better on free-hanging stuff. Mark's video is just kind of OK, because I was just in the process of learning how to use the Pantin. It takes some practising to get the hang of it, but man, it really works. Mark, you'd have been amazed the other day! I'll see if I can get some videos of the system today, and get them to Mark eventually to post for you.
The wallflower method really works, as Mark can tell you, but instead of tying the bags on a line, we now use a big-ass heavy-duty mesh bag from REI to store the used paper bags in. They dry out well, and burn easily [and legally in a pre-existing fire pit] on the summit.
I do have one request for the moderators of the Aid Forum here at RC.com, and that would be to make a couple quick edits to my Index to Dr. Piton Stuff:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...orum.cgi?post=250707
In several places, I put square brackets around the letter "s" to indicate plurality or not, or something stupid like that. Anyway, when they changed the coding, it turns out that square brackets around the letter "s" causes a line to be drawn through the text below it. So in my Index and many posts, you will find it annoying to read with lines through the text. If somebody could please edit my Index, and remove those square brackets around the s's, that would remove the lines. The fixes are easy to find, just look for where the crossed-out text begins.
Thanks for your help, and see you over at Mountain Project.com.
Cheers and beers,
Pete
*Edited by Epic Ed to turn the URLs into links. Pete, I'll edit your other post according to your requests if I have the time. So far, I haven't.
(This post was edited by epic_ed on Jun 27, 2008, 11:08 PM)
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stymingersfink
Jul 14, 2008, 2:01 AM
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guy just don't ever get the hint, do 'e?
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kriso9tails
Jul 14, 2008, 6:45 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: guy just don't ever get the hint, do 'e?
Personally, I was hoping for a little drama to fill the fifteen minute gap before lunch.
What a let down.
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