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mturner


Apr 30, 2008, 10:20 AM
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Dealing with unwanted beta
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How do you deal with someone who is persistent on giving you unwanted beta or beta that you do not need or even that you know will not work for you? My girlfriend is fairly new to climbing and is still gaining a lot of the strengths necessary to perform many basic moves. Whether it be beta sharks or people trying to genuinely be helpful, she seems to attract a lot of beta from climbers that I would not take beta from. I don't mean to sound elitist, but many of these climbers lack the experience to give knowledgeable and efficient beta at least most of the time. Most of their advice revolves around just pulling hard until you get there or locking off regardless of technique. Also, both my girlfriend and I are fairly tall and always hear the beta of, "you're tall, you should be able to..." which always comes from shorter folks who are really in no position to say what my body type feels like when climbing. I sometimes let myself get offended and quip back, "well if I'm so tall, I should just grab the top." But overall, I have gotten pretty good at ignoring this type of beta, but the givers seem more persistent with my girlfriend, mostly because she is new. How can she and even myself, deal with beta sharks?

PS- Let me know what you think of this:
I have asked people to stop giving me beta because the process of figuring the problem out is half the fun for me. Which is true, but comes out kind of dickish to the person who is trying to be helpful.


kyleshea


Apr 30, 2008, 8:37 PM
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Re: [mturner] Dealing with unwanted beta [In reply to]
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mturner wrote:
How do you deal with someone who is persistent on giving you unwanted beta or beta that you do not need or even that you know will not work for you? My girlfriend is fairly new to climbing and is still gaining a lot of the strengths necessary to perform many basic moves. Whether it be beta sharks or people trying to genuinely be helpful, she seems to attract a lot of beta from climbers that I would not take beta from. I don't mean to sound elitist, but many of these climbers lack the experience to give knowledgeable and efficient beta at least most of the time. Most of their advice revolves around just pulling hard until you get there or locking off regardless of technique. Also, both my girlfriend and I are fairly tall and always hear the beta of, "you're tall, you should be able to..." which always comes from shorter folks who are really in no position to say what my body type feels like when climbing. I sometimes let myself get offended and quip back, "well if I'm so tall, I should just grab the top." But overall, I have gotten pretty good at ignoring this type of beta, but the givers seem more persistent with my girlfriend, mostly because she is new. How can she and even myself, deal with beta sharks?

PS- Let me know what you think of this:
I have asked people to stop giving me beta because the process of figuring the problem out is half the fun for me. Which is true, but comes out kind of dickish to the person who is trying to be helpful.

im not a very nice guy, and depending on the situation, i will react differently. the first time i will usually interrupt them and tell them plainly that although they seem to be trying to help me out, i dont want help. if i did i would ask. any repeated attempts at giving beta are often followed by my telling the person/people that they should "fuck off and find someone else to bother, cause i dont wanna fuckin hear it, i think i made that fully clear the last time we had a discussion like this, asshole."
like i said, im not a nice guy, but it generally stops them from giving me beta, or generally talking to me, again, which i am ok with.
i also dont like to give beta, even if asked. its a bit different sometimes if its someone i climb with often, but sometimes it makes it al the worst.


wonderwoman


May 1, 2008, 8:16 AM
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Re: [mturner] Dealing with unwanted beta [In reply to]
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I usually don't like unsolicited beta either. If someone is giving me unwanted beta, I usually just nicely say 'Thanks, but I really like to figure the moves out for myself'. They usually just say 'Oh, sorry!'

It works really well for me! Then they don't end up giving you beta again unless you ask for it.


kyleshea


May 6, 2008, 9:06 PM
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Re: [wonderwoman] Dealing with unwanted beta [In reply to]
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wonderwoman wrote:
I usually don't like unsolicited beta either. If someone is giving me unwanted beta, I usually just nicely say 'Thanks, but I really like to figure the moves out for myself'. They usually just say 'Oh, sorry!'

It works really well for me! Then they don't end up giving you beta again unless you ask for it.

that doesnt work for me. i have tried. hence my not so nice approach.


bizarrodrinker


May 8, 2008, 10:59 AM
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kyleshea wrote:
wonderwoman wrote:
I usually don't like unsolicited beta either. If someone is giving me unwanted beta, I usually just nicely say 'Thanks, but I really like to figure the moves out for myself'. They usually just say 'Oh, sorry!'

It works really well for me! Then they don't end up giving you beta again unless you ask for it.

that doesnt work for me. i have tried. hence my not so nice approach.

Plus...why try an surpress your naturally dickish instincts?

For this very reason, I intentionally choose a spot to climb where no one else is. Or just make stuff up so there is no beta to give.

Or if all else fails...really be a dick and do the climb in sneakers or flip flops just so they shut the fuck up.

To the OP...the "beta sharks" probably think your girl is hot and are looking for any excuse to talk to her.


mturner


May 8, 2008, 11:48 AM
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bizarrodrinker wrote:
To the OP...the "beta sharks" probably think your girl is hot and are looking for any excuse to talk to her.

That's what I'm thinking. I guess she should just take it as a compliment. Still it gets old.


bizarrodrinker


May 8, 2008, 12:25 PM
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Re: [mturner] Dealing with unwanted beta [In reply to]
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mturner wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
To the OP...the "beta sharks" probably think your girl is hot and are looking for any excuse to talk to her.

That's what I'm thinking. I guess she should just take it as a compliment. Still it gets old.

Things used to be that way with my ex-girlfriend which was fine cause it allowed me to climb boulder by myself (which I prefer in the gym) What bothered me was the fact that she would invariably introduce me to her new "friends" (who I didn't want to meet or I would have sought them out myself) thus ending my peaceful bouldering session.


mturner


May 8, 2008, 1:58 PM
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Re: [bizarrodrinker] Dealing with unwanted beta [In reply to]
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bizarrodrinker wrote:
mturner wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
To the OP...the "beta sharks" probably think your girl is hot and are looking for any excuse to talk to her.

That's what I'm thinking. I guess she should just take it as a compliment. Still it gets old.

Things used to be that way with my ex-girlfriend which was fine cause it allowed me to climb boulder by myself (which I prefer in the gym) What bothered me was the fact that she would invariably introduce me to her new "friends" (who I didn't want to meet or I would have sought them out myself) thus ending my peaceful bouldering session.

Oh god, I can relate to that too!


zenelky


May 9, 2008, 6:33 AM
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Re: [mturner] Dealing with unwanted beta [In reply to]
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This is a tough one that I have not figured out yet. Since I am a female, and have a relatively smaller stature than the other guys (and most of the girls at the crag too) I get this almost every time I go climbing....until they see me flash their project and pull on holds that they never knew existed.

I find that the people who usually give the unwanted beta are NOT the ones who understand how your girlfriend climbs, nor do they understand the personal aspect of climbing. In my experience the people who are good, solid, understanding climbers will watch you/your girlfriend climb and fall a few times then ask "Would you like some beta?" in a very friendly non-intrusive way. They also don't get offended if the answer is "No". These people usually give very valuable beta that includes several options rather than "right foot here, left hand here".

But more often then not, it's some big muscle guy who just wants everyone at the crag to know that they've been on that route too. I have to take two approaches on this (and if it's your girlfriend who is getting the unwanted beta, she has to stand up for herself...not you, else she'll just reinforce the stereotype of the climber's girlfriend who is just there to make her boyfriend happy, not to make herself happy. These chicks, IMO, are worse than the beta throwers because they reinforce the stereotype and hence why many guys look at me and other strong women and automatically think that I'm the girlfriend who needs the beta*rant*) ANYWAY the two approaches I've had to take. The first time someone gives me beta that I don't want, if the beta thrower seems to be the type that is simply 'trying to be nice' and honestly doesn't understand me or the route I'll ask them nicely at first. Say "Thanks, but I usually have to figure out the sequence a little different". This usually puts the beta thrower in their place....if it doesn't I'm an a$$ to them and the second time I will look them in the face and say "Shut-up". Sounds mean, but if they don't get it the first time they won't get it the second time. The second approach is the just be mean approach. I usually am very mean when someone tries giving me beta mid-crux or from someone who is obviously trying to show off (you usually know these people, they're the loud ones you never actually see climbing but you you can hear them talking about their recent 5.14 flash in some exotic place from 1/2 mile away)

But again, I'm not really all that nice of a person and I climb for my own reasons. Hence I try to find climbs that are hidden or not often traveled. When I go places that are very busy, I have also given up entire days of climbing as to avoid becoming angry at myself and those around me...since I'll usually take it out on my partner who I then have to go home with. Makes for a very bad night. I also hunt down the other women who are at the crag who I know have, or heard have climbed the route I'm working on. It makes me feel privileged when another woman ask me for beta and I have gotten my best beta from other women.

Good luck to her.


feedmerocks


Jun 2, 2008, 3:35 PM
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My girlfriend seems to WANT all the beta I care to give her, but at the same time, I tend to lean on her too hard and we both become grumpy or worse. It is a fine balance that I/we have not worked out yet...


robmcc


Jun 2, 2008, 11:17 PM
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I've always found a simple, yet loud "No beta!" to be an effective way of stopping it.

When I'm not in the middle of a climb, I'll then explain, if they're still around, that figuring out how to do it is part of the fun.

Rob


mamajama


Jun 15, 2008, 7:25 AM
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Those spraylord bastards are like flies on shit when there is a new hottie around. I think it's an ego thing and a lust thing. If you are with a looker then expect attention. If you can't deal, head for the hills. That being said, nobody wants to hear the feverish pitch of the not so elusive jawflapper. His hands caressing the air around your sweet thing. Why do you care if you come across as being dickish? If they impose on your good time, wipe off your grimace and shoot them an intense look!Mad


kyleshea


Jun 24, 2008, 9:54 AM
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bizarrodrinker wrote:
mturner wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
To the OP...the "beta sharks" probably think your girl is hot and are looking for any excuse to talk to her.

That's what I'm thinking. I guess she should just take it as a compliment. Still it gets old.

Things used to be that way with my ex-girlfriend which was fine cause it allowed me to climb boulder by myself (which I prefer in the gym) What bothered me was the fact that she would invariably introduce me to her new "friends" (who I didn't want to meet or I would have sought them out myself) thus ending my peaceful bouldering session.

hehe, ive been that guy. hey bf, ide like to introduce you to my new friend...


bizarrodrinker


Jul 10, 2008, 8:17 AM
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Re: [kyleshea] Dealing with unwanted beta [In reply to]
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kyleshea wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
mturner wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
To the OP...the "beta sharks" probably think your girl is hot and are looking for any excuse to talk to her.

That's what I'm thinking. I guess she should just take it as a compliment. Still it gets old.

Things used to be that way with my ex-girlfriend which was fine cause it allowed me to climb boulder by myself (which I prefer in the gym) What bothered me was the fact that she would invariably introduce me to her new "friends" (who I didn't want to meet or I would have sought them out myself) thus ending my peaceful bouldering session.

hehe, ive been that guy. hey bf, ide like to introduce you to my new friend...

Y'all is what's wrong with climbing


mturner


Jul 10, 2008, 8:23 AM
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bizarrodrinker wrote:
kyleshea wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
mturner wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
To the OP...the "beta sharks" probably think your girl is hot and are looking for any excuse to talk to her.

That's what I'm thinking. I guess she should just take it as a compliment. Still it gets old.

Things used to be that way with my ex-girlfriend which was fine cause it allowed me to climb boulder by myself (which I prefer in the gym) What bothered me was the fact that she would invariably introduce me to her new "friends" (who I didn't want to meet or I would have sought them out myself) thus ending my peaceful bouldering session.

hehe, ive been that guy. hey bf, ide like to introduce you to my new friend...

Y'all is what's wrong with climbing

Actually, your grammar is what's wrong with climbing


bizarrodrinker


Jul 10, 2008, 8:25 AM
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mturner wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
kyleshea wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
mturner wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
To the OP...the "beta sharks" probably think your girl is hot and are looking for any excuse to talk to her.

That's what I'm thinking. I guess she should just take it as a compliment. Still it gets old.

Things used to be that way with my ex-girlfriend which was fine cause it allowed me to climb boulder by myself (which I prefer in the gym) What bothered me was the fact that she would invariably introduce me to her new "friends" (who I didn't want to meet or I would have sought them out myself) thus ending my peaceful bouldering session.

hehe, ive been that guy. hey bf, ide like to introduce you to my new friend...

Y'all is what's wrong with climbing

Actually, your grammar is what's wrong with climbing

Actually the grammar is correct...it's an inside joke which if you knew the person in question would make perfect sense.


kyleshea


Jul 29, 2008, 12:38 PM
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Re: [mturner] Dealing with unwanted beta [In reply to]
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mturner wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
kyleshea wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
mturner wrote:
bizarrodrinker wrote:
To the OP...the "beta sharks" probably think your girl is hot and are looking for any excuse to talk to her.

That's what I'm thinking. I guess she should just take it as a compliment. Still it gets old.

Things used to be that way with my ex-girlfriend which was fine cause it allowed me to climb boulder by myself (which I prefer in the gym) What bothered me was the fact that she would invariably introduce me to her new "friends" (who I didn't want to meet or I would have sought them out myself) thus ending my peaceful bouldering session.

hehe, ive been that guy. hey bf, ide like to introduce you to my new friend...

Y'all is what's wrong with climbing

Actually, your grammar is what's wrong with climbing


ahhhhhhh hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaa!!!


amax


Sep 18, 2008, 12:30 AM
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Interesting question. As a beginning climber I have been dealing with this quite a bit. I have also experienced this problem in other sports. The simple solution is to politely tell people that you want to concentrate on performing a task. If they don't get it, its best to avoid climbing with them or when they are around. Too much instruction can really hurt the mental game and, as a consequence, the physical performance. It particularly tough to deal with unwanted attention if you are a young woman (boy, I see this all the time in my sport). My climbing mentor has been climbing for more than 30 years. Every time I climb with him, I learn something new. However, he rarely gives me beta when I am on the route.


karlita


Sep 23, 2008, 12:06 PM
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I'm a short female and the unwanted beta happens to me sometimes. Like many others here, I like figuring it out on my own, and will only ask for beta after I've tried it my way.

My approach is simple and very effective. I usually say: "Shhhh!" and smile at the beta-spray lord. A nice smile (not sarcastic) so they know that: hey, I'm struggling, and I want to struggle in peace, damnit.

Try it! Smile Let me know how it goes for you!


Maddhatter


Sep 27, 2008, 5:43 PM
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feedmerocks wrote:
My girlfriend seems to WANT all the beta I care to give her, but at the same time, I tend to lean on her too hard and we both become grumpy or worse. It is a fine balance that I/we have not worked out yet...

I have been climbing with my wife for over 15 years and we still have not (worked it out!) LOL
I try to not give Beta unless asked, but it can be hard some times. Most times people mean well so be nice. If that does not work, Tell them to shut the fuck up. Don't get all pissy and fuck your whole day up about it though.


clausti


Oct 27, 2008, 5:07 PM
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as a female and someone who can be touchy about unsolicited beta, a technique i've never had fail:

turn around and put a finger to your [/her] lips and go SHHHHH.


clausti


Oct 27, 2008, 5:10 PM
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karlita wrote:
I'm a short female and the unwanted beta happens to me sometimes. Like many others here, I like figuring it out on my own, and will only ask for beta after I've tried it my way.

My approach is simple and very effective. I usually say: "Shhhh!" and smile at the beta-spray lord. A nice smile (not sarcastic) so they know that: hey, I'm struggling, and I want to struggle in peace, damnit.

Try it! Smile Let me know how it goes for you!

so i skipped to replying without reading all the posts, but as per above, i agree with your method!

only i'm usually not nice enough to smile.


boo


Oct 28, 2008, 6:04 AM
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ditto to the 'shhhh' method.

And to the OP, I have watched burgeoning climbers being yelled at by multiple beta masters. I get frustrated for the climber! If it seems to be really interfering, I'll step up and say, "Come on guys, (he/she) needs to listen to their belayer only."

That has consistently worked.


fresh


Oct 28, 2008, 8:36 AM
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I find this happens a lot when sport climbing but not so much trad climbing. I was clipping up this one route for the first time a few weeks ago and so many people were trying to give me beta that they actually had to yell to get their voices heard over everyone else giving me beta. really annoying. I think beta can be really helpful sometimes, but trying to follow it mid-climb is way too confusing.. like, there's a foothold below to the right.. no the other right.. yeah that one.. oh it sucks? sorry can't tell from down here. I've always tried to just not listen to it but it can be really distracting even so.


ladyscarlett


Dec 24, 2008, 1:33 PM
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Too bad ignoring them doesn't work for her.
I have a tendency to tune out everything but my climb and climbing buddies. After a few minutes of talking to themselves, they stop. I'm guessing it becomes obvious I'm not listening.

The cold shoulder/be oblivious method isn't very nice, though, but the other suggestions sound good. I'm sure your girlfriend has an idea of who around her would give the most helpful beta when wanted. If not, I'm sure you would let her know.

This makes me remember funniest beta I've heard yet.
One guy kept telling his 6'2 - 190 leader to watch me (5'2 newbie, seconding) climb a chimney pitch, to get beta on how to do his first ever chimney trad lead. I don't know, is it possible that we would actually climb it the same way?

Thanks for sharing the tips.

ls

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