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Trad climbing in the old days, how it all arose
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Shiv


May 8, 2008, 7:15 AM
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Trad climbing in the old days, how it all arose
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I'm doing a project on the social world of climbers as part of my degree and as part of it i would love to know a little more about the history of climbing, how it arose, how the tools have evolved (including everything, rope, shoes, harnesses as well as trad gear and bolted routes) and a bit about the ethos of climbing (not mountaineering, just climbing). If anyone has any thoughts on the subject I would be fascinated to hear what you have to say


WVUCLMBR


May 8, 2008, 7:19 AM
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ask and ye shall receive:
http://www.johngill.net/


Shiv


May 8, 2008, 7:26 AM
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much thanks Smile

my project is on a novice climber learning from a community of experienced others, and what she has mostly been doing is sports routes rather than bouldering, any thoughts?


WVUCLMBR


May 8, 2008, 10:58 AM
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Are you doing this just to get some dude? Tongue
I think people would be more willing to help if we knew this was just a guy tricking a girl 4 sex and not some "class project". Oh, and if any clucking goes down please post pics. Thanks.


Shiv


May 8, 2008, 6:50 PM
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ok, well i am a girl for one thing... so no, not a ploy. it is really a project, tho to be honest, i only started it today and it is due in Monday, so really, any help would be most appresiated Pirate


WVUCLMBR


May 9, 2008, 6:07 AM
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Sweet...girl on girl action.....what is the topic?.....u mentioned it was about her learning sport climbing from others? Give me a little more info and I'll try and help.


Shiv


May 9, 2008, 7:00 AM
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its all about the social world of climbers, like unwritten rules etc. and also like how the tools act back on the person, like how developments in climbing shoes, for example, have helped climbers progress. the history thing is just a small part of it really, its more about how someone new to the sport learns the rules and how to act in this new environment. its for social sciences at cardiff uni


WVUCLMBR


May 9, 2008, 8:54 AM
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Ok.....I'm gonna give you a bunch of helpful links and then you can decide what you need:
http://www.coolsportz.com/...tiquette/default.htm
http://www.coolsportz.com/...-history/default.htm
http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ring=mentor;#1027638
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climbing_shoe

Rockclimbing is like most other sports in that one learns by doing/observing. The main difference being that our sport can be fatal if certain precautions aren't met.


Shiv


May 9, 2008, 9:33 AM
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thankyou, those were helpful, particually the stuff about mentoring. It's useful to see what people think about their social relationships with other climbers.

So, out of curiosity, what would you say are the unwritten rules that climbers need to follow? Like for example not talking/ singing (for example :p) about falling when a person is lead climbing


WVUCLMBR


May 9, 2008, 9:48 AM
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I would compare it to watching a play or broadway show....sometimes it is appropriate to laugh/yell and sometimes you know that a person needs quiet to work.
Here are a couple I live by:
Only give Beta (advice) when asked.
Limit conversation with belayer as they need to focus on job @ hand.
Keep a safe distance back to avoid rockfall and distracting climber/belayer.
Avoid stepping on rope.
Spot person till 1st clip is made.
Don't eat their sandwich when they aren't looking.


Shiv


May 9, 2008, 9:54 AM
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lol, all good advice, especially the sandwich one! I find it difficult to know when to give advice, but i usually work by making a suggestion if someone seems very stuck, but appart from that leaving them to it. I wouldn't like to be told where to go before i had had a good think about it myself.

ps i like the broadway show analgy, i might just quote you Cool


reg


May 9, 2008, 10:38 AM
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may i cut in?
watch this vid for lots o history about climbing etc.


WVUCLMBR


May 9, 2008, 11:00 AM
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Excellent video reg...it's available on Netflix if you have it.


quiteatingmysteak


May 9, 2008, 11:02 AM
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Shiv wrote:
its all about the social world of climbers, like unwritten rules etc. and also like how the tools act back on the person, like how developments in climbing shoes, for example, have helped climbers progress. the history thing is just a small part of it really, its more about how someone new to the sport learns the rules and how to act in this new environment. its for social sciences at cardiff uni


So your asking where to find unwritten rules in writing?

Heh.

It used to be if you wanted to climb it was an apprentice/master relationship, with a lot of risk and responsibility and reward.

Now, the new climber goes to the gym for a few months, buys some gear from eBay, gets John Long's How to Rock Climb v4, starts Toproping at crowded crags (simultaneously meeting other new climbers and working out their heinously newbie mistakes, sometimes via trial and error, sometimes via threads on rc.com labeled "Is this anchor good?"), decides to start leading some of the routes they are toproping, when they amass the 3 cams and half set of nuts necessary to send the 25' 5.8 crack at their local dig they become 'trad climbers,' and after years and years of perfection you get a very talented and rounded climber (or a complete bimbo. Only time will tell).


onceahardman


May 9, 2008, 11:33 AM
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Ummm...

They didn't call it "Trad Climbing" in the old days.Frown

It was (and still should be) "technical rock climbing".


quiteatingmysteak


May 9, 2008, 11:51 AM
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onceahardman wrote:
Ummm...

They didn't call it "Trad Climbing" in the old days.Frown

It was (and still should be) "technical rock climbing".

Amen to that.

Sport climbing is sport climbing, but when I go out to do routes I don't say to my partner "hey, lets do some Trad climbing!' Its just... climbing.


Shiv


May 9, 2008, 3:08 PM
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lol, yeah the unwritten rules written down Tongue


DaveB.


May 10, 2008, 11:31 AM
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Shiv wrote:
I'm doing a project on the social world of climbers as part of my degree and as part of it i would love to know a little more about the history of climbing, how it arose, how the tools have evolved (including everything, rope, shoes, harnesses as well as trad gear and bolted routes) and a bit about the ethos of climbing (not mountaineering, just climbing). If anyone has any thoughts on the subject I would be fascinated to hear what you have to say

In a nut shell:

The "Traditional" style of climbing originated
out of Mountaineering, which utilized various alpine
skills usually for the ultimate goal of accending
the mountain peaks throughout the world then.

Meaning the accent to the top of something required
the person to start from the bottom and employ
their skills to reach the top. Rock climbing finnaly evolved into a sport of it's own, as kind of an off-shoot of mountaineering. Thus this ethic (ground-up) carried over into the sport as what is now considered "TRAD" climbing.

In the early days:
As this new sport developed into climbing rock for
its own ends. Most of the technology of the day required climbers to use a weakness such as
natural fissures or cracks to aid in the accent;
for both accending purposes and to teather themselfs to the cliff for safety in case of a fall.

Then-
As technology got better it allowed people to climb
rock walls with tiny features that were not often
possible before. It was at this point that people
began to question this ethic of "Trad (ground-up)" to
what is "most difficult(sport)" without necessarily the
gound- up part. Why not do things just for the
goal of difficulty without the higher risk that G-U
ethic often requires ? This became what they now call "sport climbing" or the pre-placement of
bolts or pins, gear etc. before the accent is made.

Now-
This has become a often heated debate amoung the
climbing community as the issue of style vs. saftey
is still passionatley discussed amoung the climbing community.

Thats about it me thinks....


dingus


May 10, 2008, 11:48 AM
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Shiv wrote:
its all about the social world of climbers, like unwritten rules etc. and also like how the tools act back on the person,

OK, here's the important stuff:

Potato goes in front.

The tools will stick it to you every chance they get.

For some, BEING a climber is far more important than actually CLIMBING. You have to decide for yourself if its the climbing, or the image, that you crave.

(the figurative you)

DMT


WVUCLMBR


May 12, 2008, 4:53 AM
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Dingus is right. Being a climber is wayyyyy more cooler than actually climbing. I mean climbing is really dangerous, but if all you do is buy a bunch of gear and hang out @ crags, you get all the coolness of being a rockclimber without all the danger. My new favorite thing to do is sit at the base of a badass climb and make it look like I'm about to get on it. Then when other climbers roll by they think I'm badass.....then once they are out of sight I eat my sannywichhes.


notapplicable


May 12, 2008, 6:05 AM
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WVUCLMBR wrote:
My new favorite thing to do is sit at the base of a badass climb and make it look like I'm about to get on it. Then when other climbers roll by they think I'm badass.....then once they are out of sight I eat my sannywichhes.

Damn and I thought you were one of the local hardmen meditating for a send when I saw you pondering moonshine.

http://www.rockclimbing.com/...5.11d_R/X_37652.html

Turns out your a big old poser.

Hero worship is a dead end...FrownFrownFrown


WVUCLMBR


May 12, 2008, 7:07 AM
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Moonshine isn't runout enough for me. You goin to rendezvous punkass?


notapplicable


May 12, 2008, 9:50 AM
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WVUCLMBR wrote:
Moonshine isn't runout enough for me.

**Swoon**Blush


WVUCLMBR wrote:
You goin to rendezvous punkass?


Even if they are climbers, that's just to many people for me man. Makes me all twitchy and what not.

I have a serious time crunch with the job I'm on now but this time next month I will be out your way for 4-5 days. I'll hollar at ya when I know dates.


WVUCLMBR


May 12, 2008, 1:06 PM
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Cool man...we will have to do some of that "trad" climbing.....either that or you can teach me kool "aid"Tongue


rogue10186


May 17, 2008, 6:24 AM
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Here's an interesting site for you about the history of passive pro... http://www.needlesports.com/...museum/nutsstory.htm

They've also got a link that covers the history and development of active pro on there too.

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