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tundraline
May 13, 2008, 6:00 PM
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"The entire North Shore and Palisade Head are NO CHALK areas!" Says who? The Omniscient Grand Chalk Vizier and Poo-Bah of Duluth and Beaver Bay? Don't forget, climbing shoes, perlon ropes and Camalots are also banned by order of the Grand Vizier. No climbing before 10 a.m. either, just because.
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irregularpanda
May 13, 2008, 6:07 PM
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tundraline wrote: "The entire North Shore and Palisade Head are NO CHALK areas!" Says who? The Omniscient Grand Chalk Vizier and Poo-Bah of Duluth and Beaver Bay? Don't forget, climbing shoes, perlon ropes and Camalots are also banned by order of the Grand Vizier. No climbing before 10 a.m. either, just because. It sounds like you have two options: Egg somebody's house. Or move out of the midwest. OOOOHH OOOHHHH I almost forgot the third option. Get invited to dinner at the grand pooh bahs house, and then sew shrimp into his curtains. By the time he figures out where the smell is coming from, it'll be way too late to do anything about it. hehehe.
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chadnsc
May 13, 2008, 6:42 PM
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tundraline wrote: "The entire North Shore and Palisade Head are NO CHALK areas!" Says who? The Omniscient Grand Chalk Vizier and Poo-Bah of Duluth and Beaver Bay? Don't forget, climbing shoes, perlon ropes and Camalots are also banned by order of the Grand Vizier. No climbing before 10 a.m. either, just because. Ah come now, you can troll better than that. This has been discussed before at length. Do a search of this site or read a bit of the guidebook for climbing in Minnesota or Wisconsin. Both of these sources will touch on the ethical, access, and land ownership issues associated with why using chalk on the North Shore is discouraged.
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tundraline
May 13, 2008, 6:50 PM
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Lest anyone forget, the Grand Vizier's edict now has international jurisdictional effect in Ontario, and therefore extends up the North Shore to Thunder Bay, into the BWCA and beyond into the Quetico. The "no chalk" edict is a Rule, not a simple "discouragement." Just because the park rangers do not know about the Rule, do not enforce the Rule, and know not where the Gand Vizier lives, does not mean that the Rule is not in effect.
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chadnsc
May 13, 2008, 7:16 PM
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While I don't know much about climbing in Canada 'eh or the BWCA I’m pretty sure no rules, laws, or edicts have been passed regarding using chalk there or anywhere on the North Shore. With the exception of Mystical Mountain where private land owners don't allow chalk the use of chalk is discouraged on the North Shore. That is unless the 'Grand Vizier' has come out of retirement. Again, do a search or better yet ask the question at http://minnesotaclimbing.com where Glenn Burns is the moderator. Glen is also the president of the Minnesota Climbers Association and I'm shure he will be able answer your questions much better than I. Hell, Glenn may even be able to put you in touch with the ‘Grand Vizier’ so you can voice your complaints in person. If he offers I’d take Glenn up on this offer as the old Vizier doesn’t use the internet much.
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chossmonkey
May 13, 2008, 7:28 PM
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tundraline wrote: "The entire North Shore and Palisade Head are NO CHALK areas!" Says who? The Omniscient Grand Chalk Vizier and Poo-Bah of Duluth and Beaver Bay? Don't forget, climbing shoes, perlon ropes and Camalots are also banned by order of the Grand Vizier. No climbing before 10 a.m. either, just because. Who put fire ants in your undies?
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tundraline
May 13, 2008, 7:31 PM
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Thanks for the most helpful clarification and information, chadnsc. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
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chadnsc
May 13, 2008, 7:35 PM
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No problem. I'm glad I could be of some help!
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Fenst
May 14, 2008, 1:13 AM
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I've heard that you can't use chalk on the nortshore because of sea kayakers. They don't want to see chalk on the cliffs they visit.
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chadnsc
May 14, 2008, 12:39 PM
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As I said before their are many reasons why the use of chalk is discouraged. No single user group be it climbers, hikers, boaters, or kayakers do not hold absolute influence over the 'no chalk ethic'. Take the advice given to the OP and use the resources I linked so you can fully understand the reasons behind this local ethic
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dynosore
May 14, 2008, 12:53 PM
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What is it about the Lake Superior region that makes climbers bicker so much? Same BS on the east end of the lake. Relative to other climbing areas these are practically deserted, yet people find things to gripe about and reasons to hate each other on an ongoing basis. The Lake is cursed I tell you, cursed! ....or maybe we're all just mad because we live in the Midwest.......
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chadnsc
May 14, 2008, 1:43 PM
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Bickering? Oh, I think you've mistaken someone not from this area being perplexed by a local ethic. It's an honest misunderstanding confusion and bickering especially on the internet. Besides the locals on the North Shore don't bicker about silly thinks like chalk, we're way to busy complaining about the weather and run out offwidths. Now if you'll excuse me the 'Grand Viser' wants me to get back to work.
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tundraline
May 14, 2008, 2:40 PM
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Dynosore: The fault is mine if there is any bickering to be detected in the thread. As you will see by referring to chadnsc's admirably restrained and yet informative posts above, he provides a notable example of excellent and unusually adept internet etiquette and behavior, which I commend. Although I do not live in Minnesota, I grew up there and used to climb at Palisade Head in the 1970s (but never used chalk anyway). I recently heard about the no-chalk rule on the North Shore and it struck me as very odd and over-reaching (and still does). Nevertheless, if a local community of climbers arrives at a generally agreed upon rule like "no chalk" and they wish to follow it, that of course is their choice. I'm not so sure, however, that if I were on vacation on my way to Thunder Bay as an "outsider" passing by Palisade Head and decided to stop there to lead climb (not top rope) a route that I would make the decision not to use chalk under any and all circumstances. If the rock were cooperative and I didn't need it, I wouldn't use it. On the other hand, if things got slimy I don't think I would lose any sleep over having used it. I guess what I am saying is I would respect the local rules of ethics on the North Shore regarding chalk so long as they made some sort of sense under the circumstances at hand. IMHO, there would appear to be more than a few situations where an absolute rule proscribing the use of chalk under any and all circumstances throughout the length and breadth of the North Shore (excepting Mystical Mountain) does not make sense. But this is all academic anyway, as I do not climb at Palisade Head any longer, and am unlikely to do so again (although I did get to Nightfall on the Devil Track River this past winter, and hope to get to Orient Bay next winter). I hope the rocks at Palisade Head are still doing well. It is a beautiful place and merits all the protection it can get from local climbers.
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