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stymingersfink
May 23, 2008, 8:11 PM
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notapplicable wrote: tolman_paul wrote: I can understand the approach, I almost did that on the regular route on fairview after having climbed the route roped. I knew physical free soloing the route was a cinch, but mentally the roof move about 700 feet up was too much for me at the time. Then I realized I'd be short changing myself the experience if I carried gear for a single move on the route, and if my mind wasn't right to free solo it, I just didn't belong on that rock sans rope. I just think that the most critical item in free soloing is the mindset. It's completely focusing on being comfortable on the rock and focusing on what you are doing. Carrying gear means you have doubts about what you are putting yourself into, and those doubts need to be out of your head when you free solo. Much better to not go up, or come down if you're head isn't in the game vs thinking, well I'll take some gear along just in case. Yep, yep.
I've been on that rock with an unexpected summer rain before, while roped up with a partner. The 5.7 quickly started feeling 5.10+. I'd not wish that on anyone, especially free-soloing.
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valeberga
May 23, 2008, 8:21 PM
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tolman_paul wrote: Carrying gear means you have doubts about what you are putting yourself into, and those doubts need to be out of your head when you free solo.
tolman_paul wrote: Carrying gear means I have doubts about what I am putting myself into, and those doubts need to be out of my head when I free solo.
I think the categorization of climbing activities based upon the mental state of the climber is ridiculous in general, and largely the result of the sport climbing fad. We love to put numbers and little labels all over the things we do, but in the end all of this mental stuff is illusory. The only really objective definition I can think of for freesoloing is that you are free climbing what is considered a rock or ice climbing route, without being connected to a rope or protection, where if you fall you will probably die due primarily to the distance fallen. You are free to add anything you want to this definition, but it's very likely that I won't agree with you.
(This post was edited by valeberga on May 23, 2008, 8:34 PM)
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tolman_paul
May 23, 2008, 8:41 PM
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Sportclimbing mindset? I started climbing when it was just climbing, and I don't understand the sport climbing mindset. I never said carryiing gear while free soloing isn't free soloing, though others did say that. If you find offense at those questioning carrying gear, why is that?
I've always thought free soloing was a very personal endevour, and should only be done for oneself. I do recognize with the net and folks reading over posts that others will get ideas about activities they haven't tried before. Now if someone had thought they weren't up for climbing something with only shirt and shoes, and then realized aha, I'll carry a small rack just in case, they might get on something they really shouldn't be on.
But the act of carying gear on a free solo is an self acknowledment that you might be putting yourself into a situation you can't handle w/o gear, otherwise why would you carry it??? Some people like to push their solos closer to their edge, others don't know where there edge is from the ground and will find out on the rock. I personally can't see putting myself in the situation soloing where I'll carry gear just in case. If I'm close enough to my edge to need gear, then I'll rope solo the route. I've probably roped soloed 100 times for every free solo.
More people get hurt/killed free soloing when they had gear with them vs. the shirt/shoe approach. It's not a macho thing, or a bragging thing, but it is a very real thing and should be acknowledged. It's not to say the shirt shoe guys are some how better or anything. But the point is, they know what they are up against and are focused on what they need to keep it together.
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valeberga
May 23, 2008, 8:49 PM
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tolman_paul wrote: Much better to not go up, or come down if you're head isn't in the game vs thinking, well I'll take some gear along just in case.
You suggest that one must not carry gear for their 'head to be in the game.' But how can you pretend to know how someone else mentally prepares, or that they are even playing the same mental 'game' that you are?
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valeberga
May 23, 2008, 9:09 PM
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tolman_paul wrote: Now if someone had thought they weren't up for climbing something with only shirt and shoes, and then realized aha, I'll carry a small rack just in case, they might get on something they really shouldn't be on.
But as far as I understand most freesolos are nowhere near the climber's limits. For me the rope and gear is just "why not?" kind of thing. For others, perhaps they are in a mindset where the thought of taking anything with them would ruin the experience. But again, we're talking about mental stuff, which doesn't really change the activity itself.
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elvislegs
May 23, 2008, 11:34 PM
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i think the key to this rediculous discussion is not state of mind, but commitment. while a big, sudden, mistake will end the same way in both scenarios; slower mistakes like getting pumped, getting rained on, bonking, or getting benighted will end much differently for our gear-free soloist than for our free-free soloist. the physical circumstances are not the same for both climbers because one of them has gear. even if it never comes out of the pack, they have been working with a net in many ways that matter.
also, this thread was much more entertaining near the beginning, when more people thought that the idea of a free solo lead rack was a joke...
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valeberga
May 24, 2008, 12:22 AM
Post #57 of 69
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'Net' is a poor choice of words. A net catches a fall. Emergency gear in one's pack will not. Preparing for what would most likely be non-climbing circumstances (at a cost of a few kilograms) in no way changes the nature of the climbing. Either way, the climbing itself is the same--uninterrupted free climbing with no distractions, where failure isn't an option.
Best thing to have in the rack: mp3 player
Worst thing to have in the rack: iceaxe... catches on stuff, and tools might point out that you are not freesoloing because you just bust it out and drytool any time you want 
(This post was edited by valeberga on May 24, 2008, 12:30 AM)
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sully264
May 24, 2008, 12:34 AM
Post #58 of 69
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In reply to: Worst thing to have in the rack: iceaxe... catches on stuff, and tools might point out that you are not freesoloing because you just bust it out and drytool any time you want
Is free solo dry tooling really not free soloing? Ready? Argue!
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valeberga
May 24, 2008, 12:46 AM
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That freesoloing stuff sounds super dangerous and committing! So glad I'm not doing that as long as I wear a harness!
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valeberga
May 24, 2008, 1:08 AM
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tolman_paul wrote: It's not to say the shirt shoe guys are some how better or anything. But the point is, they know what they are up against and are focused on what they need to keep it together.
That may be how all of the pretty famous climbers in the magazines with too much time on their hands are doing it these days, but it's not the only circumstance under which solo climbs are undertaken.
You know it's interesting to consider that by modern standards of protection, the pioneers of big climbs were probably for all intents and purposes essentially onsight freesoloing everything, and probably knew it, even with all of the sh*t they were hauling up the wall. But I guess the sportos would prefer to call that "X-rated," even though the climbing and the consequences are pretty much the same.
(This post was edited by valeberga on May 24, 2008, 1:14 AM)
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notapplicable
May 24, 2008, 3:39 AM
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elvislegs wrote: also, this thread was much more entertaining near the beginning, when more people thought that the idea of a free solo lead rack was a joke...
Yeah but that line of discussion ran its course pretty quick.
This wankery however, can go on for pages...
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notapplicable
May 24, 2008, 3:44 AM
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sully264 wrote: In reply to: Worst thing to have in the rack: iceaxe... catches on stuff, and tools might point out that you are not freesoloing because you just bust it out and drytool any time you want Is free solo dry tooling really not free soloing? Ready? Argue!
Leashed or leashless?
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shockabuku
May 24, 2008, 3:42 PM
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valeberga wrote: But I guess the sportos would prefer to call that "X-rated," even though the climbing and the consequences are pretty much the same.
You're shootin' holes in your own argument. "Sportos", by and large, don't bother with "X-rated" ideas, that's a "trad daddy" concept. Can we drag out any "other words" to put in quotes.
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valeberga
May 24, 2008, 4:41 PM
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shockabuku wrote: valeberga wrote: But I guess the sportos would prefer to call that "X-rated," even though the climbing and the consequences are pretty much the same. You're shootin' holes in your own argument. "Sportos", by and large, don't bother with "X-rated" ideas, that's a "trad daddy" concept. Can we drag out any "other words" to put in quotes.
The fallacy of modern "climbers" is in thinking that rock climbing has more to do with how to label and rate things, than with climbing up some rocks.
Anyway, we're posting on the internet because we just can't keep our mouths shut, so I'm sure this can just continue ad nauseum...
(This post was edited by valeberga on May 24, 2008, 5:40 PM)
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areyoumydude
May 24, 2008, 6:09 PM
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j_ung wrote: areyoumydude wrote: Hey, that's my dog slack. If he wonders off at the crag, do you follow along calling, "Slack! SLACK!"?
 Luckily he doesn't wonder off.
He did think his name was "Take" for a while after many trips to The Creek.
(This post was edited by areyoumydude on May 24, 2008, 6:10 PM)
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zeke_sf
May 24, 2008, 7:15 PM
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areyoumydude wrote: j_ung wrote: areyoumydude wrote: Hey, that's my dog slack. If he wonders off at the crag, do you follow along calling, "Slack! SLACK!"? Luckily he doesn't wonder off. He did think his name was "Take" for a while after many trips to The Creek.
Climbing terms for dog names? Sweet idea! "Off Belay! Off Belay! Crap, where did Off Belay go? Oh shit! That guy just fell!"
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shockabuku
May 24, 2008, 11:37 PM
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valeberga wrote: shockabuku wrote: valeberga wrote: But I guess the sportos would prefer to call that "X-rated," even though the climbing and the consequences are pretty much the same. You're shootin' holes in your own argument. "Sportos", by and large, don't bother with "X-rated" ideas, that's a "trad daddy" concept. Can we drag out any "other words" to put in quotes. Bullsh*t, there are bolted sport routes that get retroactively called R and X. The fallacy of modern "climbers" is in thinking that rock climbing has more to do with how to label and rate things, than with climbing up some rocks. Anyway, we're posting on the internet because we just can't keep our mouths shut, so I'm sure this can just continue ad nauseum...
Yes, there are some, not put up nor used by "sportos".
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wallrat
May 25, 2008, 3:32 AM
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Dude, that's a hang-dog.
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