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cracklover
May 27, 2008, 8:11 PM
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This from another forum.
I wasn't there, but apparently this happened this last weekend.
In reply to: here's the skinny, related later that eve at a party. Source- 3 guys on Modern Times. High E is crowded. A party of 3 takes off and gets to the ledge. Second party of 5 takes off too. 1st party leader takes off the GT ledge and does the last pitch. the other two in the party decide to simul climb the last pitch, cowtailed together. 2nd and 3rd climber of ist party get stuck. 2nd can't move and the third is dangling, I suppose near the GT ledge. Enter the screaming sounds. The party of 5's "leader" tosses out some webbing (and a knife I guess) to the chick dangling. Then there's the "one, two, three" count and the ledge party pulls the dangling chick just as she cuts the rope. My friends on Modern Times said, "We couldn't believe what we saw and that nobody died", the guys on Modern Times had no idea that the parties would CUT a rope or they obviously would have intervened. I can't figure out why anyone would think that this was a suitable solution. CUTTING a rope, you've got to be kidding me! I haven't heard how she made out, I figure she had to slam into the GT pretty hard. Now some ass leader thinks that he saved the day by getting that chick to cut her rope. Doh!
Was anyone here personally involved? If so, can you clarify what happened and why?
GO
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majid_sabet
May 27, 2008, 8:17 PM
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My hairs are sticking up just by reading this.
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j_ung
May 27, 2008, 8:31 PM
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This sounds hoax-ish to me.
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colatownkid
May 27, 2008, 8:37 PM
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seriously? this really happened? it sounds a hell of a lot like Vertical Limit to me...
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mheyman
May 27, 2008, 8:43 PM
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Too many reputable witnesses to be a hoax I think.
The other sites clique pretty much agreed. Course I can be taken - like any one else.
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Smikey
May 27, 2008, 8:49 PM
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Its fur real... f*$king nuts....
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Dillbag
May 27, 2008, 8:50 PM
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Unfortunately, it's the real deal...
Wasn't there, but I've been hearing about it from everyone I know that was at the cliff that day... Glad I was up in the relatively calm ADKs!
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mojomonkey
May 27, 2008, 9:06 PM
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I'm guessing this was Saturday... My partner and I went up 50-50 and I could hear all sorts of commotion from that direction. It sounded like a guy and girl both following at the same time. The girl was obviously frustrated and the yelling was pretty annoying as I sat to belay. We actually headed to rap Ursula to avoid being by that group, having no clue something so dangerous was going on.
It sounded like a pissed off/frustrated girlfriend and a boyfriend not dealing with the situation well. she was initially frustrated about the moves. Later I heard her yelling about hanging out in space with no way to get back on. Perhaps I should have headed over, but I didn't think too much of it. Plus it was a high traffic area and someone was bound to be there already. Who would think anyone would feel cutting the rope hanging up there was a good idea?
My partner (pinkarm on here) heard the 1-2-3 count. She also heard the other climbing guy say something about getting "freaked out", and "thinking it was his rope for a second".
Sounds too similar to be another group...
Insanity.
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pinkarm
May 27, 2008, 9:10 PM
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We were a few climbs over (on 50-50). We were at the top and kept hearing lots of shouting from our right. But my partner and I both tuned them out thinking it was new climbers having trouble climbing and being coached noisely, which it sounded like to us.
My partner decided to go in the other direction for the rappel and while I waited, I heard bits and pieces of the noisy party's back and forth screams.
I heard the "one, two, three" count by the girl as well as the leader's [maybe earlier] screaming <debbie>? several times...[gap]..and then something like "that's me...nevermind. I freaked out a little bit. I'm sorry"
Guess he was concerned enough for a little bit of freaking out.
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j_ung
May 27, 2008, 9:10 PM
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cracklover wrote: j_ung wrote: This sounds hoax-ish to me. Not a hoax. Many people I know were around and saw/heard some of it. Just don't know anyone who was directly involved, so I don't want to jump to conclusions until I get more solid info. GO
Gotcha. Sounds like it might have been a real live gumbyfuck, then. Keep us posted, willya? This is the best thing to hit the boards since the 30th or 40th Alien exploded. My one wild voyeur hair is itching, just itching, I tell you.
Gawd, a 5-person party? That alone ought to be illegal.
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Adk
May 27, 2008, 9:29 PM
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What a cluster that must have been. Glad no one was hurt yet I wish I knew the story of the usage of the webbing...
Glad I stayed home and played lawn hockey with the kids only to get hurt.
Old guys shouldn't play with children on the lawn and try to be a star!!!
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jmeizis
May 27, 2008, 9:35 PM
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When I first read the title I thought maybe you were talking about someone getting their rope cut on an edge on High E. That's crazy sounding though, surprised nobody died. Sure don't miss that about the Gunks.
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crimpstrength
May 27, 2008, 10:12 PM
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Does anyone here (or gunks.com) know (first) names of people involved? A good friend of mine was there, in a party of 3 or two males and one female. I seriously doubt he would put or allow his party to be put into this type of situation but I am still curious has his partners are fairly new to climbing.
Sounds terrible, I climb Gunks on weekdays spring and fall so no one bothers me.
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clausti
May 27, 2008, 10:34 PM
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OK question- I've climbed high-e, but just the once, and I picturing the rock, I cannot envision how someone would fall and being hanging so that they couldn't touch rock like what appears to have happened? somebody help me out here. I remember that the ledge under the crux pitch is like the size of my living room, and that the top pitch was really short and to the point.
and by "cowtailed" does that refer to when you belay two seconds at the same time on two ropes through a dual-slot belay device, or does that mean one person tied in on a bite and the second on the end of the rope?
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j_ung
May 27, 2008, 11:24 PM
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clausti wrote: and by "cowtailed" does that refer to when you belay two seconds at the same time on two ropes through a dual-slot belay device, or does that mean one person tied in on a bite and the second on the end of the rope?
Cowtailed means the latter, C, and typically the second and third climber are separated by only ten or fifteen feet of rope. The 3rd-pitch High-E headwall overhangs the void as much as it does the ledge and there's substantial height between the ledge and the roof, which you have to sort of squirm past to gain the headwall. Here's what I'm picturing: one of the two seconds falls and pulls the other off with him or her. The second is still within reach of the wall, but he or she can't climb on because the third is dangling underneath and unable to reach anything.
Cowtailing can be a great tool to have in your repertoire, especially if you climb a lot in parties of three. I prefer it over two-slot autoblocking for its simplicity. BUT, it also has some rather important contraindications, as the party in question may have found out. I never use it except on terrain that's less than vertical and that's ridiculously easy for all concerned.
(This post was edited by j_ung on May 27, 2008, 11:25 PM)
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clausti
May 27, 2008, 11:55 PM
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j_ung wrote: clausti wrote: and by "cowtailed" does that refer to when you belay two seconds at the same time on two ropes through a dual-slot belay device, or does that mean one person tied in on a bite and the second on the end of the rope? Cowtailed means the latter, C, and typically the second and third climber are separated by only ten or fifteen feet of rope. The 3rd-pitch High-E headwall overhangs the void as much as it does the ledge and there's substantial height between the ledge and the roof, which you have to sort of squirm past to gain the headwall. Here's what I'm picturing: one of the two seconds falls and pulls the other off with him or her. The second is still within reach of the wall, but he or she can't climb on because the third is dangling underneath and unable to reach anything.
ah, I get it now. Originally I had pictured them each following on their own rope. And yeah, I could see how person 2 could get hella stuck if person 3 was hanging between the void/ledge.
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phillipmikerevis
May 28, 2008, 4:50 AM
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just as we were rappelling on sat we saw the beginning of what i suspect was this party starting the last pitch of high e the guy leading literally hung on every piece [literally] saying that 'it was not that hard but i just hate this part' to another dude and a girl on the gt ledge
'if at first you do not succeed then maybe skydiving is not for you'
steven wright
(This post was edited by phillipmikerevis on May 28, 2008, 4:57 AM)
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curt
May 28, 2008, 5:20 AM
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Yet another reason why ropes should not be allowed on that climb.
Curt
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rtwilli4
May 28, 2008, 5:56 AM
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man i think that is the craziest thing i've ever read on this site. let me get this straight... the third was dangling and she CUT HER ROPE? I'm guessing that the webbing that was thrown to her was attached to an anchor, and that is what caught her after she cut the rope???
If they got a piece of webbing to the girl, why didn't they just pull her into the anchor/ledge or somewhere on the rock where she could climb to the anchor/ledge?
i've never been to the gunks but what the hell were 8 people doing climbing that close together anyways? is that normal? is it really that crowded there? how long is that route?
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granite_grrl
May 28, 2008, 12:01 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: i've never been to the gunks but what the hell were 8 people doing climbing that close together anyways? is that normal? is it really that crowded there? how long is that route?
On High-E, yes. The ledge just before the last pitch is huge, and the crux move of the last pitch is airy, while the first pitch is easy. The result is a lot of people climb quickly to the ledge and you get a bottle neck from a leader sitting there, trying to get the guts up to make the last move.
As for the story, I'm still having problems envisioning it. I'm with Clausti, I'm having a hard time thinking of a spot where the girl would be in a complete hanging position, unable to get back to the rock.
Gumby cluster-fuck indead.
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troutboy
May 28, 2008, 12:06 PM
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rtwilli4 wrote: let me get this straight... the third was dangling and she CUT HER ROPE? I'm guessing that the webbing that was thrown to her was attached to an anchor, and that is what caught her after she cut the rope???
Nope, would never work. Any fall onto a static piece like webbing would cause serious injury, break the webbing, or destroy the anchor.
The only way this scenario works is:
1) The "rescuers" can actually reach the victim (legs maybe) and pull her in, the webbing being only a secondary thing in case they blow the pull
2) The rescuers pull the victim inward toward the wall using the webbing just before she cuts the rope so that she drops onto the ledge and not outward into oblivion.
rtwilli4 wrote: If they got a piece of webbing to the girl, why didn't they just pull her into the anchor/ledge or somewhere on the rock where she could climb to the anchor/ledge??
I can think of 2 reasons:
1) The crux move involves a traverse out an overhang, about 15 feet above the ledge. Quite conceivable she could fall and not be able to reach the rock or be able to be reached from the ledge.
2) She was cowtailed into the rope with another climber, probably not far above. It's possible there was not enough rope for her to use momentum to swing inward enough the reach the wall.
I can think of several ways to overcome this problem, but the victims and "rescuers" obviously could not.
rtwilli4 wrote: i've never been to the gunks but what the hell were 8 people doing climbing that close together anyways? is that normal? is it really that crowded there? how long is that route?
Yes and yes (at least on High E). Route is 3 pitches, approx 225 feet. Climber would have been dangling about 180 feet in the air, with the ledge
partially below and to her left.
I'm sure we would all like to know exactly how this scenario played out, but one thing that could not have happened is that the webbing caught a direct fall (she walked away uninjured, apparently).
TS
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j_ung
May 28, 2008, 12:24 PM
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Troutboy, absent a first-hand account, those are pretty much my thoughts exactly.
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WVUCLMBR
May 28, 2008, 12:51 PM
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What I don't get is why the leader of the party of 5 would toss a knife to her? I mean if I saw someone in this situation (she was probably freakin turds) the last thing I would do is put the wrong tool in her hands. In this case giving her a knife instead of helpin on a rescue seems either lazy or stupid.
Off topic, I have found a knife to be a great motivational tool....my wife's 1st time up Seneca she freaked 5ft. from the top...refused to move....screamed "let me down!!!"...I explained that I'd let her down 60m but she was gonna have to fall the rest of the way....she still refused to move....so took out my knife and before I knew it she was on top....sure it was a dick move but she had the sandwiches in her pack and i was hunngie.
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