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dutyje


Jun 1, 2008, 4:59 PM
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Re: [dta95b7r] Girth Hitch Application [In reply to]
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dta95b7r wrote:
I would just like to add that if you are going to girth hitch two slings together just make sure you don't mix spectra and dyneema slings.

I thought it was don't mix nylon and perlon slings... or maybe it was horse-hair and pubic-hair slings... I can never remember.


dta95b7r


Jun 1, 2008, 5:38 PM
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Re: [dutyje] Girth Hitch Application [In reply to]
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I think you are correct sir. I remember hearing about nylon being cut by a dyneema sling.


dutyje


Jun 2, 2008, 5:54 AM
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Re: [dta95b7r] Girth Hitch Application [In reply to]
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dta95b7r wrote:
I think you are correct sir. I remember hearing about nylon being cut by a dyneema sling.

Hmm.. that's not what I said. You had said not to mix Dyneema and Spectra slings. My post was a subtle way of pointing out that Dyneema and Spectra are the same material. They are just different brand names.

That's why I said "Nylon and Perlon" -- they are the same thing. Perlon is a brand name of nylon used in cords.


anonymouse


Jun 2, 2008, 6:36 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Girth Hitch Application [In reply to]
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Ok guys, I can't believe this thread has gone on this long without this link being posted:

http://www.bdel.com/...p_archive.php#110906

So while we all agree that the girth hitch is not the best hitch to use, there is absolutely no truth to the idea that a girth hitched (dyneema or otherwise) sling could actually cut another sling. Let's all try and put that myth to rest.

Edit: If you don't read all the way to the bottom, you might get the very wrong impression that a smaller sling does actually cut a larger one. The pull tests only show that they reduce the overall strength, not that they do something as dramatic as cut the sling. Be sure to make it all the way through to see the pictures of Sherman's cut sling, and the failure mode of a pulled sling.


(This post was edited by anonymouse on Jun 2, 2008, 6:40 AM)


Partner j_ung


Jun 2, 2008, 7:29 AM
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Re: [majid_sabet] Girth Hitch Application [In reply to]
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majid_sabet wrote:
coastal_climber wrote:
majid_sabet wrote:
mhix13 wrote:
I'm guessing not to do it with the wire in case it's (the wire itself) frayed and the metal burs can compromise the sling?

Why not girth hitch it with another sling?

GH slings to sling is a bad idea.

Wasn't there a case of a sling being cut because it was girth hitched to another? I think the info was on this site.


>Cam

yes

I think I even have the photos from a dude who GH two trad anchors. One leg of the master point failed due to GHing. I'll see if I could find that photo and post it.

If you're talking about the John-Sherman Mammut Dyneema break, Mammut disputes the report. Their official response was that the sling was probably already damaged prior to its break. FWIW, though, I agree that girth hitching runners together is far from optimum. And girth hitching a runner to a stopper a wire is a recipe for disaster. If you must connect a sling to a stopper wire without a biner, doubling the sling through the wire is far superior. And even then, you should probably pick the thickest sling on your rack.


adatesman


Jun 2, 2008, 7:49 AM
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Partner j_ung


Jun 2, 2008, 7:56 AM
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Re: [adatesman] Girth Hitch Application [In reply to]
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adatesman wrote:
j_ung wrote:
FWIW, though, I agree that girth hitching runners together is far from optimum. And girth hitching a runner to a stopper a wire is a recipe for disaster. If you must connect a sling to a stopper wire without a biner, doubling the sling through the wire is far superior. And even then, you should probably pick the thickest sling on your rack.

Actually, knudeNoggin and I have been kicking this around a bit over email lately and I'm hoping to get something put together for The Lab sometime soon. The quick version is that he found this site which shows slings attached to cable with friction knots (looks to be a via ferrata application). kN's thought is that girth hitching to wires will cut the cord fairly easily, but maybe using a friction knot (as used on that site) might yield better results.

Some quick and dirty testing on the pile of 5' core stands sitting in the workshop (~factor 1, 50 pounds of weight) was giving me breaking strengths of ~240 lb-force for loops of core strand made from a pair of strands attached with butterfly bends (they'd break at one of the knots). Girth hitching a loop to the wire from a stopper would give ~140 lb-force and failure was at the girth hitch. Quite interestingly, using a 5 wrap sheet bend gave ~250 lb-force breaking strength for the two drops I tried it with. Failure came at the point where the strands made their first full turn around the wires at the top of the stack of wraps and both ends of the loop severed (two cuts... the GH had only one cut).

Given the fragile nature of core strands and the apparent possibility of obtaining full strength when attached to a wire, it looks to me like this is worth further investigation.

-a.

I suppose that's sort of interesting, but even if it bears fruit, it stills impractical for trad protection, if for no other reason than that it would take a long time and two hands to rig.


knudenoggin


Jun 4, 2008, 9:50 AM
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Re: [j_ung] Girth Hitch Application [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
If you're talking about the John-Sherman Mammut Dyneema break, Mammut disputes the report. Their official response was that the sling was probably already damaged prior to its break. . . .
I previously answered this above, and yet someone apparently missed that?
And, no, Mammut did NOT suspect prior damage--thanks for the URLink to their
report, but many will (continue) to ignore reading that and recall only what is
posted here, so let me post Mammut's conclusion:

Mammut believes that the broken sling in question was cut by a sharp object.
...
The most plausible scenario, borne out by the linear characteristics of the break and location of the break outside the knot, is that the sling was cut with a very sharp object.


And THAT points Mr. Sherman's problem in an entirely different direction.

But, no doubt, in a couple weeks or ... , we'll again see someone posting that
skinny slings of HMPE can easily be cut or do the cutting ... .
(And maybe we'll still be finding WMD & prior Al Queada in Iraq, as long as Cheney
lives.)

Unsure


fulton


Jun 4, 2008, 11:07 AM
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Girth Hitch Application [In reply to]
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Never girth hitch anything to a wire.

When girth hitched, webbing's strength is reduced up to %60.
If you make a habit of girth hitching your cam slings and falling on them they will become worn.

Spectra does not do well when knotted or hitched in general (of course it will hold, but again, its a wear issue [see below]):


(BD has done all the tests as far as connecting slings together sans biners:
http://www.bdel.com/...p_archive.php#110906
This is a great resource which I am sure many of you are already familiar with)

The other thing to consider is that your second will have to remove the gear and, hopefully, re-rack it to some extent before they arrive at the belay. If the cam doesn't have a biner on it then the second will have a difficult time of being orderly.
Especailly when swapping leads, the second wants to be able to remove the cam (and draw) and rack them on their own harness the way they like it for the next lead, thus minimizing time during change overs.

You know, climbing is often about compromise and finding solutions for the situation you are in at the moment--sometimes a girth hitch will be advantageous over using a biner, such as an alternative to having a biner rub against an edge and potentially open the gate. And sometimes you will want to conserve your biners for later, and sometimes you will want to conserve weight, though with light weight biners that practice has gone by the way side.

In many cases, you can make a "basket" instead of uisng a girth hitch. Baskets actually double the holding power of the sling, whereas a girth hitch reduces it a good bit. The basket technique is often used by riggers, who are more concerned with overall strength of a system, not rope drag.


knudenoggin


Jun 9, 2008, 3:35 PM
Post #35 of 35 (2581 views)
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Re: [fulton] Girth Hitch Application [In reply to]
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fulton wrote:
Spectra does not do well when knotted or hitched in general (of course it will hold, but again, its a wear issue [see below]):
[image]...
Geesh, could you not even get more than ONE post distant from the refutation
of your insinuation???!!
That is a photo of a CUT sling, not one doing poorly when knotted.
You must take the cake ... !

Unsure

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