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Adrian_Falcus
May 21, 2008, 4:22 PM
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shockabuku wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I should have known better than to attempt to rationally arguing anything on this site. Yep, I can't contest that statement. Adrian_Falcus wrote: knieveltech wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I imagine the most obvious reason is that you have no right to simply kill a creature for no discernible reason. The snake bit you because the snake obviously felt threatened, big deal. Your life, or any other humans for that matter, is not more important than the life of any other creature. People be people. Food be food. Only very silly people get the two confused. Color me silly then, and adopt a modest proposal. I have yet to hear anyone give me a rational reason for why human life takes precedent over other creatures aside from "duhh, only teh retards hippys likes animals better!" I would honestly love to hear some rational opinions on the matter. Here's the answer: because I get to decide. I decide whether or not to kill the snake (or at least try) or to leave it alone. Because I can. That's nature. It's (somewhat) random. I get to use my biases, my own sometimes good, sometimes faulty decision making, etc. to decide on life and death. It's beautiful, it's horrible, it's life. No other reason. Nothing has any "value" outside of what it's given. If I assign no value to the snake life, well, it gets none.
This is, for the most part, the answer most commonly given. However we as humans have been going around doing what we want (because as you said, we can) for around 10,000 years or so, and well...it hasn't worked out so well in my opinion. The problem isn't that we shouldn't be able to make individual value judgments on things, it's how we act upon these judgments. Humans have been granted the amazing power of foresight and judgment, which many creatures lack. If we continue to go around doing as we please we will inevitably pay the ultimate price- extinction. After all, we are but a speck on the timeline of our planets history, the earth will live on after we are gone- provided we don't kill all living organisms on it in our attempts to prolong our race.
Valarc was correct when he stated the overall problems of our world vastly outweigh the killing of a few snakes in one's path, but this mindset in itself leads to a machiavellian-esque scorched earth policy if we all adopt it. Hell, most of us have already acknowledged and enacted this mindset either consciously or subconsciously in many respects.
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knieveltech
May 21, 2008, 5:15 PM
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stymingersfink wrote: knieveltech wrote: Adrian_Falcus wrote: I would honestly love to hear some rational opinions on the matter. I don't believe you would, actually. If human life isn't inherently precious to you above all other considerations then you are clearly suffering from profound mental/emotional problems. Seek therapy. Depends on the human life. THere's a lotta fuckers out there I'd rather see dead than a single rattlesnake. You probably feel the same way too, whether you admit/realize it or not. We'll start with the mother-killers and father-rapers, move on to the mother-rapers and father-killers. Where it goes from there, IDC, but you see my point. Some people should be killed for the good of the human race, the only reason they're still alive is 'cause it's against the law to kill 'em.
Hell I've known folks I'd've killed just for the pleasure of watching them die, but sorry-ass motherfuckers aside....
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shockabuku
May 21, 2008, 6:27 PM
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Adrian_Falcus wrote: This is, for the most part, the answer most commonly given. However we as humans have been going around doing what we want (because as you said, we can) for around 10,000 years or so, and well...it hasn't worked out so well in my opinion.
Well, it hasn't worked out that badly either and, as you note, that's your opinion.
Adrian_Falcus wrote: The problem isn't that we shouldn't be able to make individual value judgments on things, it's how we act upon these judgments. Humans have been granted the amazing power of foresight and judgment, which many creatures lack. If we continue to go around doing as we please we will inevitably pay the ultimate price- extinction.
I'm guessing you consider that an undesirable, preventable, consequence.
Adrian_Falcus wrote: After all, we are but a speck on the timeline of our planets history, the earth will live on after we are gone- provided we don't kill all living organisms on it in our attempts to prolong our race.
I'd be surprised if we could manage to kill all the other living organisms but anyway, I think it's our attempts to dominate each other where we really go wrong. Our attempts to prolong our race are probably secondary to that or at best go hand in hand.
Adrian_Falcus wrote: Valarc was correct when he stated the overall problems of our world vastly outweigh the killing of a few snakes in one's path, but this mindset in itself leads to a machiavellian-esque scorched earth policy if we all adopt it. Hell, most of us have already acknowledged and enacted this mindset either consciously or subconsciously in many respects.
I don't know if I have the long term patience and dedication to really change anything significant. It's obvious that most of the rest of this country doesn't. I think we're doomed, Doomed (with a capital D) I tell you.
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porkchop_express
Jun 5, 2008, 5:59 PM
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Having been a philo major in college, I have no choice but to pipe up after seeing this thread careening wildly into the realm of speculative argument;
However I was planning on visiting Sinks Canyon this summer and was wondering if it would be possible to climb safely without getting bitten by a rattler? I would prefer to avoid contact with venomous snakes but I would really like to check out the canyon...Is it like a 'look where youre walking' type of scenario to go in there in July and August or is it basically a deathwish?
For what its worth (nothing, actually) I have no desire to kill any animals however cuddly or otherwise they may appear- but if its me or it, well, i'd as soon be the one to live. That said, if I could simply forgo the ethical grandstanding and just give them a wide berth, then that's my preference.
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palidon11
Jun 5, 2008, 6:07 PM
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a little off topic, but the pic made it to the break.com galleries..
http://www.break.com/pictures/your-worst-hiking-nightmare514196.html
(This post was edited by palidon11 on Jun 5, 2008, 6:08 PM)
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stymingersfink
Jun 5, 2008, 6:28 PM
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fixed.
(This post was edited by stymingersfink on Jun 5, 2008, 6:29 PM)
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krusher4
Jun 5, 2008, 6:35 PM
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Does this effect the Wild Iris area?
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bob_54b
Jun 5, 2008, 6:58 PM
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actually, the photo was taken 15 miles east of Riverton in the Gas Hills, nowhere near Lander. I know the people who took the picture (it's a small town) and it was on the Fremont County Schools website for a while..
but, the rattlers are out and migrating to their summer places, which means the dolomite, so, just keep an eye out and leave them alone...they control the rodents and it's bad karma to kill the Nagas...you'll come down with all sorts of rheumatic disorders.
like they say...Wyoming, nothing but wind and rattlesnakes. you gotta love it.
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robdotcalm
Jun 5, 2008, 7:13 PM
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bob_54b wrote: actually, the photo was taken 15 miles east of Riverton in the Gas Hills, nowhere near Lander. I know the people who took the picture (it's a small town) and it was on the Fremont County Schools website for a while.. but, the rattlers are out and migrating to their summer places, which means the dolomite, so, just keep an eye out and leave them alone...they control the rodents and it's bad karma to kill the Nagas...you'll come down with all sorts of rheumatic disorders. like they say...Wyoming, nothing but wind and rattlesnakes. you gotta love it.
Does this mean that the OP lied about the location of the rattlers just to keep people away from Sinks Canyon so that he and his cohort could have it to themselves?
r.c
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billcoe_
Jun 5, 2008, 9:14 PM
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Kill every damn rattlesnake ya see. Let the Bull Snakes and King snakes move into the neighborhood and take care of the mice.
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bob_54b
Jun 6, 2008, 1:40 PM
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undoubtedly he did, perhaps tired of the masses from Colorado/Utah/Jackson that horde every weekend at the main area like some great group grope that seem incapable of being apart from their fellow humans and their moronic dogs.
I thought of saying nothing about it, but, shit, maybe I should now join the Chamber of Commerce for beautifying the image of Lander.
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wyoclimb
Jun 6, 2008, 8:33 PM
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The best part is seeing their moronic dogs get bit
by rattler . Ive' seen 2 dogs get it that shit hasta hurt. One was a local dog
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victorblanco
Jun 17, 2009, 5:41 AM
Post #88 of 89
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a little late; but, what the hell? here is the deal: you dumb shits! locals don't want your dumb asses wrecking local areas via greasing up routes (try brushing once in a while when lowering off of popular routes), over crowding areas/walls and parking incorrectly at area (sinks: park straight in you fucking morons) or hogging routes (fuck you coloradoans {slash east coast or west coast morons who moved to the rocky mountains and not natives} for putting up top ropes and trying to monopolize routes. also, don't bring your dog to the crag if they mis-behave, they will get reprimanded (kicked, hit with a quickdraw or shot) locals notice this shit and will call you on your discrepancies. what?!!!In reply to:
(This post was edited by victorblanco on Jun 17, 2009, 5:47 AM)
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zeke_sf
Jun 17, 2009, 7:21 PM
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victorblanco wrote: a little late; but, what the hell? here is the deal: you dumb shits!
You're by no means too late on this one. Being an intertard has no statute of limitations, broski.
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