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hengadachalam
Jun 13, 2008, 2:07 AM
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i have a friend (6a+ to 6b climber) who recently started training on indoor boulder traverses (on mainly flat walls, little incline) with a quickdraw clipped to the finger straps at the rear of his rockshoes, hence restricting his foot movement/span. he says this improves his footwork and that it works though i can't fathom how it does. anyone with knowledge on this?
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spikeddem
Jun 13, 2008, 5:14 PM
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So when I first read this I did understand what you meant at all. When I woke up this morning, the first thing I thought upon waking up was that you meant each carabiner of a single quickdraw is clipped into a respective finger strap on each shoe.
I could see it probably doing some good for footwork.
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getout87
Jun 13, 2008, 5:44 PM
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I could see it possibly working, more so on your core and lock off strenght from picking up and placing both legs at once. I'm not so old on the footwork issue though. Just put on som ankle weights and climb with veeeerrrrry quiet feet (as in, think like a ninja) That has worked the best with me.
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spikeddem
Jun 14, 2008, 4:35 AM
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getout87 wrote: I could see it possibly working, more so on your core and lock off strenght from picking up and placing both legs at once. I'm not so old on the footwork issue though. Just put on som ankle weights and climb with veeeerrrrry quiet feet (as in, think like a ninja) That has worked the best with me.
I doubt the idea is to follow a route, and rather to rainbow traverse across the wall. So, it's probably defeating the purpose to lift off both feet simultaneously.
*Awaits "rainbow traverse" jokes*
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jt512
Jun 14, 2008, 4:53 AM
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Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here.
Jay
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caughtinside
Jun 14, 2008, 5:09 AM
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jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay
I feel we could lern something from these 6a hardmen.
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spikeddem
Jun 14, 2008, 5:15 AM
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jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay
Reach alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to Jay's first day of climbing. Now, undoubtedly you were climbing 5.12s, so try to remember the other new guy that was across the gym from you. He, lacking inherent climbing godliness, had shitty footwork. You don't think it would have forced him focus more on his feet?
That said, I believe quiet feet would be more effective.
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caughtinside
Jun 14, 2008, 5:32 AM
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spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay Reach alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to Jay's first day of climbing. Now, undoubtedly you were climbing 5.12s, so try to remember the other new guy that was across the gym from you. He, lacking inherent climbing godliness, had shitty footwork. You don't think it would have forced him focus more on his feet? That said, I believe quiet feet would be more effective.
Well, no need to use a quickdraw or a sling when you can just tie your shoelaces together.
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jt512
Jun 14, 2008, 6:04 AM
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spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay Reach alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to Jay's first day of climbing. Now, undoubtedly you were climbing 5.12s, so try to remember the other new guy that was across the gym from you. He, lacking inherent climbing godliness, had shitty footwork. You don't think it would have forced him focus more on his feet?
No. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
Jay
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musicman1586
Jun 14, 2008, 7:46 AM
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hengadachalam wrote: i have a friend (6a+ to 6b climber) who recently started training on indoor boulder traverses (on mainly flat walls, little incline) with a quickdraw clipped to the finger straps at the rear of his rockshoes, hence restricting his foot movement/span. he says this improves his footwork and that it works though i can't fathom how it does. anyone with knowledge on this?
That makes no sense at all to me, I'll try it perhaps and give some real feed back, but I just got back from the gym not too long ago, and I'm thinking about the various traverses I always do to warm up, and I don't see any way that such a thing would even allow me to use proper footwork. Maybe if there's a hold every 3 inches it would force me to inch along, but good foot work is so much more than making sure your keeping a foot on a hold. I could name lots of things that this would not help you train, like flagging, drop knees, heel hooks, toe hooks, hand-foot matches. It might help you work on bicycles alot, but really its one of the most illogical and least thought out things I've heard in a long time.
If you want some real things that I've seen real results from in myself and others who I've helped in training, there's two things that I like alot. I'm no professional trainer, but they atleast make more logical sense, even if they're not the best thing out there.
First thing that works well for teaching beginners to use their feet has been to tell them to do routes and traverses with their arms locked straight, as in not bending them at all, which keeps them from pulling with their arms and relying solely on their feet to make progress. It also teaches them about balance and how to turn their bodies side to side when moving in particular directions.
The other is to tell them to climb in slow motion. Sounds lame, but it works on footwork, balance, lock off strength, endurance, etc. Just try to make every move as slow as possible, both feet and hand movements, it forces you to position your body in the optimal way, because if your off-balance your only going to be able to stab at holds.
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sungam
Jun 14, 2008, 11:47 AM
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spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay Reach alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to Jay's first day of climbing. Now, undoubtedly you were climbing 5.12s, so try to remember the other new guy that was across the gym from you. He, lacking inherent climbing godliness, had shitty footwork. You don't think it would have forced him focus more on his feet? That said, I believe quiet feet would be more effective.
Keeping your feet that close together for every move is just downright retarded.
Therefore, for thinking it's a good idea when it would actually be making his footwork WORSE, you are downright retarded.
You get nothing. You lose.
Good day, sir.
-MagnuS
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chossmonkey
Jun 14, 2008, 2:01 PM
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Sounds like a poor way to improve footwork and a good way to get hurt if you fell off.
If your buddy is really that into bondage, perhaps he should be using handcuffs on his wrists. That would definitely make you use your feet more.
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GeneralBenson
Jun 14, 2008, 8:49 PM
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hengadachalam wrote: i have a friend (6a+ to 6b climber) who recently started training on indoor boulder traverses (on mainly flat walls, little incline) with a quickdraw clipped to the finger straps at the rear of his rockshoes, hence restricting his foot movement/span. he says this improves his footwork and that it works though i can't fathom how it does. anyone with knowledge on this?
If by 'improving you footwork', you mean 'improvig your campuswork', then, you are correct. The only thing I can think of, is clipping two qd's to each fingerloop, leaving your feet not attatched to eachother. Then when you climb, try to make absolutely no clinking noise. Better yet, use hexes. Hang a rack of hexes off of each foot.
Like when I climb trad with my GF, she's so freaking quiet, it drives me nuts. Guys are so awkward and clumsy, and we make all sorts of clinking noises when we climb. I can bring up a male second with out ever looking at them, and just belay entirely with my ears, but not her. I'll see her take a stance to remove gear, and I'll listen to hear her start moving, and then she'll be like, 'up rope', and there's a pile of rope at her feet. I think I'll make her carry hexes at all times.
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iwasasportweenie
Jun 14, 2008, 10:12 PM
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hengadachalam wrote: i have a friend (6a+ to 6b climber) who recently started training on indoor boulder traverses (on mainly flat walls, little incline) with a quickdraw clipped to the finger straps at the rear of his rockshoes, hence restricting his foot movement/span. he says this improves his footwork and that it works though i can't fathom how it does. anyone with knowledge on this?
Wow. This really appears not to be a troll. It's on me, of course, if I'm wrong.
Generally speaking most routes, especially in the 6a/b range, are going to require a lot of stemming and/or high-stepping, which of course are both impossible if you've only got (approximately) one heel for two feet. If you want to get stronger, weight training, hangboarding, or climbing things with little emphasis on feet will be more effective. Though hangboarding is probably overkill for the 6b climber.
If you just want to climb and use your feet better, I'd recommend yoga, intense leg stretching, and practice stemming and high-stepping. Unless you're practicing drop kicks, pogo sticks, or the dolphin kick (for use in swimming the butterfly or "fly"), I can't think of anytime you'd want to lash your feet together. Honestly.
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spikeddem
Jun 15, 2008, 3:28 AM
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jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay Reach alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to Jay's first day of climbing. Now, undoubtedly you were climbing 5.12s, so try to remember the other new guy that was across the gym from you. He, lacking inherent climbing godliness, had shitty footwork. You don't think it would have forced him focus more on his feet? No. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Jay
Right. I'm sure your arm work would be the same putting handcuffs on and it wouldn't force you to focus on your hands. You are undoubtedly right that having tied feet would no cause anyone to focus on their feet.
You are awesome Jay!
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Alpine07
Jun 15, 2008, 3:39 AM
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spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay Reach alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to Jay's first day of climbing. Now, undoubtedly you were climbing 5.12s, so try to remember the other new guy that was across the gym from you. He, lacking inherent climbing godliness, had shitty footwork. You don't think it would have forced him focus more on his feet? No. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Jay Right. I'm sure your arm work would be the same putting handcuffs on and it wouldn't force you to focus on your hands. You are undoubtedly right that having tied feet would no cause anyone to focus on their feet. You are awesome Jay!
Maybe someone should try tying themselves to the ground to see if it improves overall climbing ability.
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GeneralBenson
Jun 15, 2008, 3:44 AM
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Alpine07 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay Reach alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to Jay's first day of climbing. Now, undoubtedly you were climbing 5.12s, so try to remember the other new guy that was across the gym from you. He, lacking inherent climbing godliness, had shitty footwork. You don't think it would have forced him focus more on his feet? No. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Jay Right. I'm sure your arm work would be the same putting handcuffs on and it wouldn't force you to focus on your hands. You are undoubtedly right that having tied feet would no cause anyone to focus on their feet. You are awesome Jay! Maybe someone should try tying themselves to the ground to see if it improves overall climbing ability.
I hog-tied myself today and had an awesome dyno workout. I think I made some pretty serious improvement.
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spikeddem
Jun 15, 2008, 4:18 PM
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GeneralBenson wrote: Alpine07 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay Reach alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to Jay's first day of climbing. Now, undoubtedly you were climbing 5.12s, so try to remember the other new guy that was across the gym from you. He, lacking inherent climbing godliness, had shitty footwork. You don't think it would have forced him focus more on his feet? No. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Jay Right. I'm sure your arm work would be the same putting handcuffs on and it wouldn't force you to focus on your hands. You are undoubtedly right that having tied feet would no cause anyone to focus on their feet. You are awesome Jay! Maybe someone should try tying themselves to the ground to see if it improves overall climbing ability. I hog-tied myself today and had an awesome dyno workout. I think I made some pretty serious improvement.
Nowhere in this abomination of quotes did I say anything about for better or worse.
Thanks.
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aerili
Jun 15, 2008, 5:24 PM
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Well, you did say it here.
spikeddem wrote: I could see it probably doing some good for footwork.
BTW, this idea for technique is very stupid and I could see it theoretically deteriorating footwork instead of improving it. Just b/c your friend believes it helps him doesn't mean it does. Athletes have believed lots of nonsense has been vital to their success for thousands of years; they can misguidedly assign the improvements to stem from the wrong variable in their training, thus perpetuating further nonsense to others, unfortunately.
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caughtinside
Jun 15, 2008, 5:47 PM
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spikeddem wrote: GeneralBenson wrote: Alpine07 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay Reach alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to Jay's first day of climbing. Now, undoubtedly you were climbing 5.12s, so try to remember the other new guy that was across the gym from you. He, lacking inherent climbing godliness, had shitty footwork. You don't think it would have forced him focus more on his feet? No. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Jay Right. I'm sure your arm work would be the same putting handcuffs on and it wouldn't force you to focus on your hands. You are undoubtedly right that having tied feet would no cause anyone to focus on their feet. You are awesome Jay! Maybe someone should try tying themselves to the ground to see if it improves overall climbing ability. I hog-tied myself today and had an awesome dyno workout. I think I made some pretty serious improvement. Nowhere in this abomination of quotes did I say anything about for better or worse. Thanks.
Well if all you really want to do is hump jt's leg you might try to find a thread where he isn't 100% correct.
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jt512
Jun 15, 2008, 9:05 PM
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spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: spikeddem wrote: jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay Reach alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll the way back to Jay's first day of climbing. Now, undoubtedly you were climbing 5.12s, so try to remember the other new guy that was across the gym from you. He, lacking inherent climbing godliness, had shitty footwork. You don't think it would have forced him focus more on his feet? No. It's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Jay Right. I'm sure your arm work would be the same putting handcuffs on and it wouldn't force you to focus on your hands. You are undoubtedly right that having tied feet would no cause anyone to focus on their feet. You are awesome Jay!
Here's an idea that will benefit all of us: Tie your fingers together. A guy who types 20 wpm swears it helps your typing.
Jay
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sky7high
Jun 15, 2008, 11:19 PM
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jt512 wrote: Attempting to improve your footwork by restricting your footwork is about the most idiotic idea I've seen presented here. Jay
Although I'd be willing to bet that you've seen ideas here that are by far more idiotic , I agree with it being stupid.
Actually, if you want to improve your footwork you do the exact opposite, you tie your wrists together. Been there, done that. I didn't like it very much though.
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hopperhopper
Jun 15, 2008, 11:19 PM
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jt512 wrote: Here's an idea that will benefit all of us: Tie your fingers together. A guy who types 20 wpm swears it helps your typing. Jay
if this doesn't make him understand i don't know what will. bye henga.
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overlord
Jun 16, 2008, 10:55 AM
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restricting foot movement to improve technique is like fighting for peace 
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fluxus
Jun 17, 2008, 1:46 AM
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Yes, this is a terrible training idea. But maybe its important to explain why.
With any movement training activity we need to ask how well it simulates the motor demands of the activity that one is training for.
How does restricting the movement of the feet help a climber learn to visually identify foot holds, or move a foot to a new hold, or control the force being applied to a foot hold?
The short answer is that it won't. It's just another innovation in training that is (like most in climbing) not based on any of the cognitive, psychological or psychological demands of the sport.
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