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reg
Jun 25, 2008, 2:42 PM
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holy cow! 71 and climbing every day! i can only hope to be......well....able to do the things i want at that age. sad when people die but it's better to go quick doing something you like then to languish for years in varying states of degradation - like my mother, bless her heart.
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stymingersfink
Jun 25, 2008, 7:48 PM
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reg wrote: holy cow! 71 and climbing every day! i can only hope to be......well....able to do the things i want at that age. sad when people die but it's better to go quick doing something you like then to languish for years in varying states of degradation - like my mother, bless her heart.
Scotch in one hand, smokin' a phat bowl with the other, while several young lovelies who just can't seem to keep their hands/mouths off me show their appreciation for age and wisdom.
Barring that, I'd be happy to be lost forever in a glacial crevasse, never to be found. Leaving only stories told about around drunken campfires, fond memories of times shared, wishes to live even half as well... 
Here's to you Paul!
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onceahardman
Jun 25, 2008, 11:25 PM
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"rappelling and apparently had more rope than he thought"...hmmm
I wonder what really happened? Please let us know if you find out more.
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majid_sabet
Jun 25, 2008, 11:48 PM
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onceahardman wrote: "rappelling and apparently had more rope than he thought"...hmmm I wonder what really happened? Please let us know if you find out more.
The rock climber killed Tuesday in a fall in the Needles apparently had misjudged the amount of rope he had as he rappelled from one of the spires, according to Custer County Sheriff Rick Wheeler.
Officials: Rock climber misjudged amount of rope
The victim, Paul A. Duval, 71, of Custer, was a very experienced climber, Wheeler said. Duval climbed almost every day. But he apparently had more rope than he thought and fell to the ground in Tuesday's accident, Wheeler said.
Duval and his climbing partner were climbing on Moonlight Ridge when he fell shortly after noon Tuesday, Wheeler said.
Duval and his partner were reportedly using a new rope that was not their own and was marked differently, according to Daryl Stisser, co-owner of Sylvan Rocks Climbing School and Guide Service. Stisser, who wasn't on the scene at the time of the accident, said Duval apparently mistook some of the marks on the climbing rope, leading to the accident.
There were other climbers in the area Tuesday, Wheeler said.
Rescue crew members administered CPR but could not resuscitate him, he said. Duval was dead at the scene.
Duval, who spent much of his life as a teacher in the Boston area, was a long-time member of the Appalachian Mountain Club and was very active as a rock-climbing instructor, according to his brother, Ron Duval of Long Valley, N.J. Paul Duval's climbing experience included excursions to Europe, Africa, Mexico and throughout North America, his brother said.
He had climbed often in the Needles, Wheeler said.
Although a teenager died while climbing without safety equipment near Sylvan Lake last summer, accidents involving technical climbers are rare, according to Steve Baldwin, head of the Custer County Search and Rescue team.
Tuesday's accident was the first serious accident in the Needles area for many years, Baldwin said. "The climbers are generally so good, they pretty much take care of themselves," he said.
But the Needles' granite spires offer a range of climbing that draws serious climbers, Baldwin said Wednesday. "People come from all over the world. Difficulty wise, it's everything from nice, easy climbs to extremely technical."
Climbers may be seen on the Needles virtually every nice day during the summer, according to Craig Pugsley, visitor-services coordinator at Custer State Park. Pugsley said the park doesn't keep track of the number of climbers, who aren't required to register to climb.
Rock climbing is generally a safe sport with relatively few accidents, but like other sports, it is susceptible to error, Stisser said.
The local climbing community is mourning Duval's death, Stisser said Wednesday. "Rock climbing was a part of life that Paul loved. He loved the people, and the beautiful places it took him. He will be missed."
Stisser added, "Many I've talked to were out on the rocks again today, no doubt being a little more careful."
`
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cacalderon
Jun 25, 2008, 11:51 PM
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odd mistake for such an experienced climber.... i agree with above comment...he died doing something he loved.... this just proves that you can never be to careful...
(This post was edited by cacalderon on Jun 26, 2008, 12:57 AM)
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stymingersfink
Jun 26, 2008, 12:45 AM
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drector wrote: cacalderon wrote: odd mistake for such an experienced climber.... i agree with above statement, "he died doing something he loved".... this just proves that you can never be to careful... I didn't see where the article said this (it's being misquoted) but it's a crock of s&&t. No one loves being liked in a fall and no one dies doing what they love. My condolences and sympathy to the family. It is sad when anyone has an accident that kills them. Dave
and yes, aside from the last moments of his climbing career, it is easy to imply that he was otherwise doing something he loved, as he had been engaged in technical climbing (and all the activities directly associated with it) for a good portion of his life.
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curt
Jun 26, 2008, 1:03 AM
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onceahardman wrote: "rappelling and apparently had more rope than he thought"...hmmm I wonder what really happened? Please let us know if you find out more.
Yeah, that statement doesn't make too much sense to me either. A more careful reading of the article, however, leads me to believe that this was another accident that occurred from a climber mistaking one of the newer marks found relatively near the ends of a rope being mistaken for a middle-mark.
That's just a guess, of course. My condolences to his friends and family.
Curt
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socalclimber
Jun 26, 2008, 1:49 AM
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curt wrote: onceahardman wrote: "rappelling and apparently had more rope than he thought"...hmmm I wonder what really happened? Please let us know if you find out more. Yeah, that statement doesn't make too much sense to me either. A more careful reading of the article, however, leads me to believe that this was another accident that occurred from a climber mistaking one of the newer marks found relatively near the ends of a rope being mistaken for a middle-mark. That's just a guess, of course. My condolences to his friends and family. Curt
Sounds like the ends were uneven and he wasn't paying attention to the ends.
Sad news indeed.
All the best to the family and friends.
(This post was edited by socalclimber on Jun 26, 2008, 1:50 AM)
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potreroed
Jun 26, 2008, 1:59 AM
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This is terrible news. Paul was a close friend of ours and will be sorely missed. Our condolences to Karen and the rest of his family and many friends. Apparently the rope he was using was not his and had more than one mark on it. At 71 he could outclimb me any day.
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coolcat83
Jun 26, 2008, 2:39 AM
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My condolences to his family and friends.
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majid_sabet
Jun 27, 2008, 4:54 PM
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Fatal Fall Caused By Rope Problem
Published: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:17 AM CDT
RAPID CITY (AP) — A climber who fell to his death in Custer State Park apparently misjudged the amount of rope he had as he rappelled down a rock formation in the Needles area, authorities say.
The victim, Paul A. Duval, 71, of Custer, was an experienced climber who climbed almost every day, said Custer County Sheriff Rick Wheeler.
Duval and his climbing partner were climbing on Moonlight Ridge when he fell shortly after noon Tuesday.
They were reportedly using a new rope that was not their own and was marked differently, according to Daryl Stisser, co-owner of Sylvan Rocks Climbing School and Guide Service.
Stisser, who was not on the scene at the time of the accident, said Duval apparently mistook some of the marks on the climbing rope, leading to the accident.
Rescue crew members administered CPR but could not resuscitate him, Wheeler said.
A teenager died near Sylvan Lake last summer while climbing without safety equipment, but accidents involving technical climbers are rare, said Steve Baldwin, head of the Custer County Search and Rescue team.
“The climbers are generally so good, they pretty much take care of themselves,” he said.
The Needles’ granite spires offer a range of climbing that draws serious climbers, Baldwin said.
“People come from all over the world,” he said. “Difficulty wise, it’s everything from nice, easy climbs to extremely technical.”
Duval spent much of his life as a teacher in the Boston area.
He was a longtime member of the Appalachian Mountain Club and was very active as a rock-climbing instructor, according to his brother, Ron Duval of Long Valley, N.J. His climbing experience included excursions to Europe, Africa, Mexico and throughout North America.
Stisser said the local climbing community is mourning Duval.
“Rock climbing was a part of life that Paul loved,” he said. “He loved the people, and the beautiful places it took him. He will be missed.”
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stymingersfink
Jun 27, 2008, 6:28 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: Fatal Fall Caused By Rope Problem Published: Friday, June 27, 2008 12:17 AM CDT RAPID CITY (AP) — A climber who fell to his death in Custer State Park apparently misjudged the amount of rope he had as he rappelled down a rock formation in the Needles area, authorities say. The victim, Paul A. Duval, 71, of Custer, was an experienced climber who climbed almost every day, said Custer County Sheriff Rick Wheeler. Duval and his climbing partner were climbing on Moonlight Ridge when he fell shortly after noon Tuesday. They were reportedly using a new rope that was not their own and was marked differently, according to Daryl Stisser, co-owner of Sylvan Rocks Climbing School and Guide Service. Stisser, who was not on the scene at the time of the accident, said Duval apparently mistook some of the marks on the climbing rope, leading to the accident. Rescue crew members administered CPR but could not resuscitate him, Wheeler said. A teenager died near Sylvan Lake last summer while climbing without safety equipment, but accidents involving technical climbers are rare, said Steve Baldwin, head of the Custer County Search and Rescue team. “The climbers are generally so good, they pretty much take care of themselves,” he said. The Needles’ granite spires offer a range of climbing that draws serious climbers, Baldwin said. “People come from all over the world,” he said. “Difficulty wise, it’s everything from nice, easy climbs to extremely technical.” Duval spent much of his life as a teacher in the Boston area. He was a longtime member of the Appalachian Mountain Club and was very active as a rock-climbing instructor, according to his brother, Ron Duval of Long Valley, N.J. His climbing experience included excursions to Europe, Africa, Mexico and throughout North America. Stisser said the local climbing community is mourning Duval. “Rock climbing was a part of life that Paul loved,” he said. “He loved the people, and the beautiful places it took him. He will be missed.”
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marc801
Jun 27, 2008, 7:04 PM
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From the News from the Needles blog:
"Paul Duval, a Needles pioneer, icon and friend to us all, died yesterday in a climbing accident at the Moonlight Ridge area. The accident involved mistaking the mark near the end of a rope for the mark at the center of the rope and resulted in rappelling off the short end."
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fitzontherocks
Jun 27, 2008, 7:10 PM
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marc801 wrote: From the News from the Needles blog: "Paul Duval, a Needles pioneer, icon and friend to us all, died yesterday in a climbing accident at the Moonlight Ridge area. The accident involved mistaking the mark near the end of a rope for the mark at the center of the rope and resulted in rappelling off the short end."
Crap. I was afraid of that. I've heard of more than one person mistaking the 10' marks (or whatever they are) for the middle mark.
This was also in the first article:
"Rock climbing is generally a safe sport with relatively few accidents, but like other sports, it is susceptible to error, Stisser said."
Even under these tragic circumstances, I'm glad someone brought some perspective to the table.
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majid_sabet
Jun 27, 2008, 7:24 PM
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If this was a rap on a full 60 meter then most climbers split the rope and toss it over in a lot of cases you could be 10-30 feet short on one end if you just guess the center mark.
How could you toss two ends off the ledge and have 10 feet mark on one side and 150 feet on the other side and not notice the difference?
(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Jun 27, 2008, 7:24 PM)
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getout87
Jun 27, 2008, 7:31 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: If this was a rap on a full 60 meter then most climbers split the rope and toss it over in a lot of cases you could be 10-30 feet short on one end if you just guess the center mark. How could you toss two ends off the ledge and have 10 feet mark on one side and 150 feet on the other side and not notice the difference?
Double rope rap?
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majid_sabet
Jun 27, 2008, 8:27 PM
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getout87 wrote: majid_sabet wrote: If this was a rap on a full 60 meter then most climbers split the rope and toss it over in a lot of cases you could be 10-30 feet short on one end if you just guess the center mark. How could you toss two ends off the ledge and have 10 feet mark on one side and 150 feet on the other side and not notice the difference? Double rope rap?
You can not make a mistake like that on a double rope rap cause you only tie one end to the other and there is no way that climbers leave a knot some 140 feet off from the rap ring.
I think the guy ran a single rope thru the rap ring but then use the tape as the middle mark(assuming the accident report is accurate).Well that tape was not the center mark but the end mark.
But still, even if you rap at night , there is no way you could lower 150 feet of rope on one side of the rap ring and only keep 10 feet on the other side. The weight of the rope on one side could pull the other side right out of rap ring.
Does anyone knows if he was on a multi-pitch rap anchor and if so ,was he on the first rap anchor from top ?
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onceahardman
Jun 27, 2008, 9:03 PM
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Really sad.
This is why, if I can't see the rope ends, I always thread the rope, feeding both ends down simultaneously, and tie a fat knot if I'm unsure of the distance to the ground or anchor.
Always. Every time. Be vigilant.
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notapplicable
Jun 27, 2008, 9:35 PM
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majid_sabet wrote: How could you toss two ends off the ledge and have 10 feet mark on one side and 150 feet on the other side and not notice the difference?
I think end marks are more like 20+ ft. from the ends and who said anything about feeding the rope through rings. Maybe he clipped in to biners or snaplinks.
Not saying its the easiest mistake to make but its happened a number of times to people with alot of vertical miles.
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tharlow
Jun 27, 2008, 10:56 PM
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Sad story, Paul sounded like a great guy and I feel for his family and friends. I cannot believe how many times I have heard of this happening, experienced climbers mistaking the end marks for middle marks. It seems that Paul and the way he lived his life are an inspiration, and hopefully his death will serve as a lesson, a reminder to not take anything for granted and always double check. Of all of the ways to die while climbing, this seems like one of the worse as it should be easily avoided.
Peace
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majid_sabet
Jun 27, 2008, 11:26 PM
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notapplicable wrote: majid_sabet wrote: How could you toss two ends off the ledge and have 10 feet mark on one side and 150 feet on the other side and not notice the difference? I think end marks are more like 20+ ft. from the ends and who said anything about feeding the rope through rings. Maybe he clipped in to biners or snaplinks. Not saying its the easiest mistake to make but its happened a number of times to people with alot of vertical miles.
I seen cases where climbers fell from the end of the line where one side was 10-40 feet shorter but I can not picture a veteran climber with 40+ years of experiences under his harness put a 10 or even 20 feet end mark in the rap ring (biner,whatever) and not notice the massive rope on the other side before rapping.
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notapplicable
Jun 28, 2008, 3:27 AM
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majid_sabet wrote: notapplicable wrote: majid_sabet wrote: How could you toss two ends off the ledge and have 10 feet mark on one side and 150 feet on the other side and not notice the difference? I think end marks are more like 20+ ft. from the ends and who said anything about feeding the rope through rings. Maybe he clipped in to biners or snaplinks. Not saying its the easiest mistake to make but its happened a number of times to people with alot of vertical miles. I seen cases where climbers fell from the end of the line where one side was 10-40 feet shorter but I can not picture a veteran climber with 40+ years of experiences under his harness put a 10 or even 20 feet end mark in the rap ring (biner,whatever) and not notice the massive rope on the other side before rapping.
Oh, dont get me wrong. This is kind of accident is really bizarre and something that should never happen to a person who is paying event he least bit of attention.
All I'm saying is that if it was an impossible feat, it wouldnt happen so often. Doubling back a harness is about the simplest task in climbing but people fail to do it all the time. Some times people screw up, sometimes they have done a route 100 times and tossed the rope the same way 100 times and then 1 time they have a different rope...
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majid_sabet
Jun 28, 2008, 4:40 AM
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notapplicable wrote: majid_sabet wrote: notapplicable wrote: majid_sabet wrote: How could you toss two ends off the ledge and have 10 feet mark on one side and 150 feet on the other side and not notice the difference? I think end marks are more like 20+ ft. from the ends and who said anything about feeding the rope through rings. Maybe he clipped in to biners or snaplinks. Not saying its the easiest mistake to make but its happened a number of times to people with alot of vertical miles. I seen cases where climbers fell from the end of the line where one side was 10-40 feet shorter but I can not picture a veteran climber with 40+ years of experiences under his harness put a 10 or even 20 feet end mark in the rap ring (biner,whatever) and not notice the massive rope on the other side before rapping. Oh, dont get me wrong. This is kind of accident is really bizarre and something that should never happen to a person who is paying event he least bit of attention. All I'm saying is that if it was an impossible feat, it wouldnt happen so often. Doubling back a harness is about the simplest task in climbing but people fail to do it all the time. Some times people screw up, sometimes they have done a route 100 times and tossed the rope the same way 100 times and then 1 time they have a different rope...
Best is just wait for his partner to come up and explain what exactly happened that day.
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