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cloven-hitch
Jul 1, 2008, 6:23 AM
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Does anyone know the best way to submit to the mags for photos. what's the format, pitch, introduction, size, etc?
Thanks in advance.
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kriso9tails
Jul 1, 2008, 7:35 AM
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I feel like this is a silly question, but one never knows: you have started by checking contribution guidelines already, yeah?
They are usually online, and not as consistent as one might think.
Rock and Ice
climbing
Alpinist
Size? All a matter of context, but they are probably all printing at 300dpi, so assuming that the average magazine is close to (or probably marginally smaller than) letter, full single page is roughly 2550 x 3300.
If I were asking for submissions, personally, I'd prefer the full file, uncropped, as rgb tiff, no compression, but not everybody is me. If they want to use your images based on your low res samples you can always ask their preferences.
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guangzhou
Jul 2, 2008, 11:30 PM
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cloven-hitch wrote: Does anyone know the best way to submit to the mags for photos. what's the format, pitch, introduction, size, etc? Thanks in advance.
As stated above, check out each of the magazines
photo-guidelines.
What was overlooked was that the single best way to get photos published is to provide the magazine editor with the complete package. Another words, write the article and send the photos together.
Cheers
Eman
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fiend
Jul 3, 2008, 5:05 AM
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guangzhou wrote: What was overlooked was that the single best way to get photos published is to provide the magazine editor with the complete package. Another words, write the article and send the photos together.
That's not even remotely true for any of the climbing rags except Alpinist. This only works if you're:
a) Established
b) Famous
c) Returned from something truly EPIC
d) Submitting photos to go along with an article written by someone who conforms to a, b, or c.
Outside of that, there's a slim shot at the galleries, a slimmer shot at the cover, and if you've shot a local comp or something then maybe a thumbnail in the news section... although I don't think they print that stuff so much these days.
This is a little more snow/skate focused, but most of it applies across the board: http://www.wheelsandwax.com/v3/content/view/33/28/
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climbsomething
Jul 3, 2008, 6:28 AM
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guangzhou wrote: Another words, write the article and send the photos together.
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kriso9tails
Jul 3, 2008, 5:53 PM
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climbsomething wrote: guangzhou wrote: Another words, write the article and send the photos together. Submitting articles on spec is a major gamble... IMO
I think for smaller publications that really need content it could work out, but I can't imagine the pay is so much worth your time unless you planned on writing/ shooting whatever you're submitting irrespective of getting paid anyway. I feel like at that point you might as well just work for free.
I feel like hardly any photographer (if any at all) uses climbing mags as the maintstay of their income. I pretty much hate most magazines for their low standards, but Alpinist, the odd time I flip through one, is tolerable. Still, $700 for the cover shot? Hardly seems worth the trouble as anything more than supplementary earnings.
(This post was edited by kriso9tails on Jul 3, 2008, 5:55 PM)
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guangzhou
Jul 4, 2008, 2:08 AM
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kriso9tails wrote: climbsomething wrote: guangzhou wrote: Another words, write the article and send the photos together. Submitting articles on spec is a major gamble... IMO I think for smaller publications that really need content it could work out, but I can't imagine the pay is so much worth your time unless you planned on writing/ shooting whatever you're submitting irrespective of getting paid anyway. I feel like at that point you might as well just work for free. I feel like hardly any photographer (if any at all) uses climbing mags as the maintstay of their income. I pretty much hate most magazines for their low standards, but Alpinist, the odd time I flip through one, is tolerable. Still, $700 for the cover shot? Hardly seems worth the trouble as anything more than supplementary earnings.
I will agree, the climbing press isn't a great place to earn a living with your images and writing. A nice suplement.
Small presses offer the advantage of small regions. You could sell the same article and iages to several at once and do Ok.
Regardless, I have more luck selling the complete package than piece meal to any magazine.
Cheers,
Eman
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JoshCaple
Jul 6, 2008, 2:15 PM
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In reply to: guangzhou wrote: Another words, write the article and send the photos together.
climbsomething wrote: Submitting articles on spec is a major gamble... IMO
It is true that you can make more sales (with much more padded paychecks) by writing the stories to go with your photos. The trouble is of course that it takes significantly longer to write an article AND shoot a whole series of photos. So if you do go this road, figure out whether it is really a viable option- weigh up the expenses it will incur (including your time) vs. the likely payouts. For certain articles, as Guangzhou mentions, it may be appropriate to sell the same story to multiple markets. Just be sure that all parties are really OK with this beforehand!
Obviously different publications and different situations work differently, but I very rarely submit photo/story packages on-spec. (I do submit 'standalone images' on spec to magazines, because they are a lot easier for an editor to just 'slip in' than an article.)
Normally if I'm going to provide a story & photo package, it is because I have discussed the publication's requirements with the editor months beforehand & bounced ideas back & forth until we came up with a direction/angle/parameters for the story. Often (especially if I have worked with the editor before) it's a matter of me giving them a few ideas & seeing what sticks, but other times the editor has very specific requirements.
kriso- I can't imagine making a living from climbing magazines alone, definitely just a supplementary for me (and I've had far more financial luck with more 'mainstream' mags that are interested in the occasional climbing article. I also do non-climbing articles for those mags to keep things rolling along). For a bit of (sort of) related reading, check out http://www.wheelsandwax.com/...viewtopic.php?t=4160(warning: naughty words & funny comments)
For the original poster;
Check out http://www.wheelsandwax.com/v3/content/view/33/28/
I also saw an article a while ago by Colin Adair, ut couldn't find the link. A bit of googling & you might get lucky?
**EDITED TO ADD*
After re-reading Brian's article at the above link, I feel I should point out that I disagree with the comments about the fixed nature of pricing. While it is true that many magazines are very set in their way when it comes to pricing, Brian makes it sounds like 'just accept it'. If a publication wants your images, there is no reason whatsoever that you cannot propose your own prices. Sometimes such an email will be met with refusal, but not always! At the end of the day if you are not happy with what you are being offered, don't feel pressured into accepting the rates just to get published. If you have strong images then someone else will pay what they're worth!
There are some documents around (I have them on my computer, I'll see about finding the original links) with industry standard guidelines for file specs, handling, delivery, etc. of digital images.
**EDITED TO ADD*
Universal Photographic Digital Imaging Guidelines- http://www.updig.org/
Picture Licensing Universal Scheme- http://www.useplus.com/
If you have any more specific questions, feel free to post 'em here or email me!
(This post was edited by JoshCaple on Jul 6, 2008, 3:45 PM)
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guangzhou
Jul 6, 2008, 11:30 PM
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Nice post and good views.
I have to agree, making a living from climbing or rock and ice today would be very limiting.
What's interesting to me is that people who want to market their images often get tunnel vision when it come to the market.
"I shoot climbing photos, so I'll try climbing magazine." That fine, but it only a very small part of the market that uses images that have climbers. Even within just the editorial world.
In the late 80's, climbing use to have a section in the magazine where people provide a copy of climbing photos they saw in various ads not related to climbing. At that time, it was a rare occurance, but today it's very common to see climbers in all sorts of ads and articles that have nothing to do with climbing.
Business magazine are constantly using climbing images to support their text, they also pay a better rate that most outdoor magazines.
For me, giving the editor the complete package works. I feed the article to more than one editor often, but I do have my favorite who get first choice.
Read the magazine, see what they like, and cater your writing and photos to them. Have someone edit you writing before you send it too, especially if you are writing a climbing piece for a non-climbing magazine.
Want to focus on the climbing press, look outside you home country to license your images. Your backyard is exotic to people who live on the other side of the globe.
Be ready for rejections and learn from them.
Cheers
Eman
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guangzhou
Jul 7, 2008, 1:13 AM
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Myxomatosis wrote: guangzhou wrote: Have someone edit you writing before you send it too, especially if you are writing a climbing piece for a non-climbing magazine. Yeah, make sure you proof read before sending  I think 300dpi and A4 is pretty much a minimum for any magazine article. I always try shoot in portrait too as its more likely to be a full page spread or front page 
Most mags or art directors or photo buyers will let you know what they want from a technical point of view when it come to file size and style.
As for the editing of my post, a perfect example. Of course, writing is a process and I don't do any rough draft for forums. Maybe I should.
Cheers
E
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JoshCaple
Jul 7, 2008, 2:10 AM
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Myxamytosis- You raise the very good point of shooting for format. When shooting for a publication, you have to think about more than straight up photographic composition... eg. if you are shooting a cover, obviously you need to think about mag logos/titles, barcodes, content titles etc.
I try to provide a number of angles/comps/orientations that could work in different ways & give the art director a bit more freedom.
Remember that double page spreads are even better than FPS, so don't just limit yourself to portrait. Mix it up & shoot whatever works.
Eman- If a photobuyer has specific or unusual requirements, then they will make those clear to you (when you ask them), however (unless otherwise specified) you should always work to some kind of standard practice that makes it easy for the client to find & use your photos.
As a magazine photo editor, I *often* received unsolicited 20+mB emails, with no captions, labelling system, contact information, intro letter, ANYTHING. People just dump a few photos straight from their camera to an email & send, often 10 equally rubbish shots of each angle they found on their recent climbing holiday.
I highly recommend that you don't do this!
Over the next few months I will be producing a number of short videos (which will be available on my blog) showing my total personal workflow (contacting potential clients, planning & organising a shoot, the actual shoot, image processing & storage, file delivery, etc for both editorial & commercial jobs). Obviously this is only the way I do it, but hopefully it will be helpful for those looking to make money from photography.
For editing your writing, you can have someone read it over (sometimes I'll pass around a draft between some friends to get some feedback & suggestions) but it's also very important to be able to self-edit. Just like with your photos, be a bit ruthless critiquing & editing your written work. This is not just with articles for publication, but also in your correspondence. If I was an editor reading some of your posts, I might assume that you have serious issues with grammar (:P) & thus would be unlikely to commission you for a story!!
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guangzhou
Jul 7, 2008, 10:21 AM
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Josh, all good points.
I know a few editors at fairly big Magazines and they say the same thing about receiving emails with crap ideas and badly attached images.
As for a personal editor, I have a few excellent proof readers who read my stuff and make comments. sometimes I take the critic, sometimes I don't. I always listen. Like Mark Twain once said, "every writer needs his own personal editor."
First time I visited you blog, nice clean look. Amazing what can be accomplished with blogspot. Looking forward to seeing to videos.
Interesting post, but I need to sort some gear for a Big Wall First Ascent attempt. 2000 ft of untouched rock, can't wait.
Cheers
Eman
http://class5photos.blogspot.com/
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cloven-hitch
Jul 9, 2008, 9:29 PM
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Thanks all for the thoughtful responses. Really appreaciate it.
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guangzhou
Jul 9, 2008, 11:19 PM
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You did get some good responses.
Something to think about, every photographer who markets his or her work does it differently. One thing they all have in common in that they keep getting the images out where the buyers are.
Submit photos you think are relevant. Make sure you edit them ruthlessly first, and be ready of rejections along the way. Submit, submit, submit.
Editors also like to know you're serious about this. Submitting consistently good and great images to editors will send the right message. Just make sure the images are the type of photos they use regularly, you don't want to waste the buyer's time.
Cheers,
Good Luck
Eman
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