|
Myxomatosis
May 7, 2008, 2:37 AM
Post #26 of 105
(8639 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 12, 2007
Posts: 1063
|
I train twice a week indoors and climb outdoors nearly every weekend.
I find that the first climb back at the gym after a solid weekend of cranking I always think to myself "goddam that hold is massive!!!"  and therefore find the gym rather easy. Over hanging routes take a whole new type of technique that needs to be learnt.
The gym is a tool, its easy to get completly pumped, rest for 10 minutes, crank hard again, rest and repeat.
|
|
|
|
|
munky
May 7, 2008, 3:13 AM
Post #27 of 105
(8624 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 26, 2006
Posts: 358
|
That's crazy man. i dunno... know that at my gym and local Washington DC (sportrock, Earthtreks) gyms I climb roughly what i do outside. I've been climbing almost 10 years now, starting outside and and its only been the last 4 years or so where about half of my climbing is done indoors training in a gym. At first I felt like 5.12, V5 was way too hard but now they seem easy- in fact easier than outside and less technical. Obviously almost all gym climbing is face climbing which doesn't translate equally to the tips laybacks, jams, stems, and leavitation trickery used in many traditional crack lines. But you said you climbed sport outside too so that doesn't really prove any point. I agree that the gym rats pulling down in those dungeons regularly are some of the physically strongest climbers out there but as you probably know its quite the show when you see them outside getting bouted on 5.12s because they can't read the rock for shit. i always chuckle at that one. oh you can campus V7 inside but you're getting shut down on a 12b face climb. Shut the f- down! i love it.
|
|
|
|
|
Physicist
Jun 17, 2008, 3:41 AM
Post #28 of 105
(8500 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 19, 2008
Posts: 13
|
I feel the opposite way. I started climbing indoors at Earth Treks, and even when I hadn't climbed in ~1.5 years and started up again, I could climb 5.10s and V3s indoors. Outdoors I could only do V2s and 5.8s initially.
|
|
|
|
|
keithspernak
Jun 17, 2008, 5:49 AM
Post #29 of 105
(8468 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 1, 2007
Posts: 92
|
Have you been drinking?
|
|
|
|
|
TheHawk
Jun 17, 2008, 8:23 AM
Post #31 of 105
(8437 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 2, 2008
Posts: 12
|
I love the gym i think its a great tool. It helps improve endurance, strength in tendons and muscles, and toughens your skin so when you do go outdoors its not like taking sandpaper to your ass. The one reason i think constant gym climbers climb so hard especially in a gym, is because they have become numb to the fears associated with climbing because they are subjected to such things as falls repeatedly in a relatively safe environment. As for me i struggle outdoors, because my overactive mind always imagines the worst possible scenarios. But i have never come across a route outside rated within my abilities that i found to tough and i attribute that to my time spent in the gym.
|
|
|
|
|
Rt92
Jun 17, 2008, 10:10 AM
Post #32 of 105
(8422 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 15, 2008
Posts: 4
|
TheHawk wrote: they have become numb to the fears associated with climbing because they are subjected to such things as falls repeatedly in a relatively safe environment.
You say that, but my gyms always full of kids aged about 5 that are constantly like an inch away from causing a serious accident
(This post was edited by Rt92 on Jun 17, 2008, 10:46 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
Valarc
Jun 17, 2008, 11:14 AM
Post #33 of 105
(8417 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 20, 2007
Posts: 1473
|
Physicist wrote: I feel the opposite way. I started climbing indoors at Earth Treks, and even when I hadn't climbed in ~1.5 years and started up again, I could climb 5.10s and V3s indoors. Outdoors I could only do V2s and 5.8s initially.
I've only climbed at earth treks once, when I was visiting family, but their ratings were SOFT. A V1 at earth treks was probably the equivalent of a 5.8 at most. It has nothing to do with the actual difficulty of climbing on plastic, but rather the highly inflated ratings given by a gym that's trying to make their customers feel better about themselves.
|
|
|
|
|
jermanimal
Jul 1, 2008, 5:02 PM
Post #34 of 105
(8217 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 7, 2007
Posts: 200
|
hafilax wrote: It's probably just my gym but I find the fitness needed in the gym to be completely different from that for our local rock. In the gym: -the foot holds are huge -the routes are short and vertical to overhanging -the holds are ergonomic Outside: -the footholds are smears or jams -the routes are long and less than vertical -the holds are jams or crimps It's two different disciplines. I don't sport climb much though and have been told that my gym and outdoor grades will be closer since the fitness and techniques are more similar.
Agree.
It has been said time and time again that climbing indoors IS NOT rock climbing. Many of the indoor routes have moves you just don't need outside, but are key for indoor acrobatics.
Clearly if you want to climb outside better, climb outside more. If you want to climb indoors better, climb indoors more.
|
|
|
|
|
rtwilli4
Jul 6, 2008, 5:26 AM
Post #35 of 105
(8061 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 14, 2008
Posts: 1867
|
I get spanked at the gym whenever I go, which I rarely do. I do think it's harder.
However, it is no comparison to real climbing. There are many variables outdoors that make up for the difficulty of the moves in a gym.
Don't get me wrong, I respect those who pull hard on plastic and feel sorry for those that have no access to outdoor climbing but, like it said, its no comparison. You have to deal with so many things outdoors that are not present indoors.
I have done most of my scary climbing in Thailand on sharp, fragile rock, with rusty bolts, fixed anchors that are SO old and f cked, with wind blowing and rain pouring. Not to mention that you have to kayak there and step right off the boat onto the verticle rock and then rap back down into the boat (assuming your rope doesn't get caught on the sharp, velcro-like rock when you pull after the first rap. All of that, and this is only SPORT climbing!
I invite any 'gym rat' to come climb the 5.10 towers in the Andaman sea... I guarantee you'll shit your pants and pump out way before we get to the top. Then shit your pants again on the way down :)
(This post was edited by rtwilli4 on Jul 6, 2008, 5:27 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
rockgirlCO
Jul 10, 2008, 7:33 PM
Post #36 of 105
(7951 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 8, 2008
Posts: 36
|
I started outdoors and only in the last two years started spending my winters indoors in order to keep in shape. (It has definitely helped me progress.) Some of the observations below are what others have concluded and some are my opinons:
I've been told:
*indoor routes are generally sustained (almost all of the moves are the grade), while outdoors, a route will be graded based on its hardest move (there might be only 1 move at its grade).
*a 5.X indoors can generally be considered a 5.X -2 outdoors (e.g. 5.10 roughly equals a 5.8); I've found this to be a good guideline, not a rule. I'm not foolish enough to think that if I can do a 5.10 indoors, I can do a 5.10 in Eldo. (Eldo keeps me humble.) Elsewhere I might do just fine.
As a new sport leader outdoors, I'm practically embarrassed by what grade I am leading vs. what I do in the gym. I've been analyzing the difference, from a leader perspective, and I think the biggest difference is all psychological. I have to find all my holds and figure out the moves above pro outdoors, and it is pretty hard to escape from that seed in your subconscious, even when very focussed, even when rationalizing the situation. (Yes I've read Arno's book.) Beyond that, I'm not sure why I'm substantially less afraid indoors (while leading)...holds/bolts/belayers can fail indoors too.
Re: CO gyms, having climbed a lot at both R&J and BRC, both have some really good setters and both have some into sandbagging (it seems). In the end, whether you like that sort of monkeywrenching is up to you. I like "flow" in my routes personally. I went to Earthtreks, MD one time and it seemed like the routes were set by boulderers: a required dyno for the first move on all the routes I did. I didn't like it but I bet the people who are use to going there didn't have as much of a problem as I did.
In the end, I have to agree with a previous post: the gym is just training for the real thing. If you can get outside all the time, why bother with the gym?
|
|
|
|
|
angry
Jul 10, 2008, 7:51 PM
Post #37 of 105
(7943 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
Eldo might be a little exception. I can climb about the same there, on lead, as I can at the gym.
Everywhere else, I'm better than at the gym.
I still don't understand how someone can crank at the gym and not outdoors. Move for move, the plastic is so much harder.
|
|
|
|
|
hafilax
Jul 10, 2008, 7:59 PM
Post #38 of 105
(7931 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 12, 2007
Posts: 3025
|
I climb cracks and slabs (and combinations thereof) outside so the skills I develop in the gym don't translate well. I can boulder at about the same level inside as out in my area though. Especially if the problem is at about 45.00 degrees 
I also peter out at about the exact height of my gym. I really need to start running laps to break that mental and physical barrier.
|
|
|
|
|
rockgirlCO
Jul 10, 2008, 8:06 PM
Post #39 of 105
(7928 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 8, 2008
Posts: 36
|
Not doing multi-pitch routes has lowered my endurance and there's not a darn thing climbing the gym will do about that! Just have to get outside (running, hiking, climbing multi-pitch).
|
|
|
|
|
patmay81
Jul 10, 2008, 8:15 PM
Post #40 of 105
(7922 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2006
Posts: 1081
|
I wish there was a gym where I live, then I could do some "real" rock climbing. As it is I am stuck bouldering on the beach or driving to the crag- those things are really dirty and there's no drinking fountain!
|
|
|
|
|
ryanb
Jul 10, 2008, 8:55 PM
Post #41 of 105
(7898 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 4, 2004
Posts: 832
|
angry wrote: Eldo might be a little exception. I can climb about the same there, on lead, as I can at the gym. Everywhere else, I'm better than at the gym.
It seems clear everywhere else is soft then right???
I noticed at the gym i went to this last winter (stone gardens in seattle) that the ratings seemed in line with the outdoors in the fall but got harder as the winter progressed. I think the issue is that the setters (mostly good and accomplished outdoors climbers who work at the gym full time) get really strong at gym skills being in there all day all winter long and so when the ratings feel in line with outdoor ratings for them they might not for the rest of us.
That said, make a pilgrimage and spend a few days on 11s and 12s at the Index, WA town walls and I guarantee that gym ratings will start to seem soft.
|
|
|
|
|
docburner
Jul 10, 2008, 10:15 PM
Post #42 of 105
(7857 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 11, 2005
Posts: 192
|
What I usually find is that somewhere in the grading there is a change in how it tracks outdoors. For example in my gym usually anything up to 10c or so is a couple of grades soft. Everything from 10d-11b is dead on. Everything after that is wildly misrated. Maybe its just because all of the setters are boulders and I doubt they ever lead.
My favorite quote when I asked one of the strongest climbers what they thought of the blue 11d and his response was "well its obviously harder then the 13s". So the worst part of our gym is you have no clue how hard the climb is going to be.
|
|
|
|
|
spikeddem
Jul 11, 2008, 4:16 AM
Post #43 of 105
(7810 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 27, 2007
Posts: 6319
|
angry wrote: This ranges from big multipitch routes, to fixing an entire sport crag and assaulting it with my mini-trax, to 9 pitch days in Indian Creek, to crack bouldering, campus training, slab climbing, ice, mixed, and even sport.
(Emphasis my own.)
|
|
|
|
|
jaybro
Jul 11, 2008, 8:19 AM
Post #44 of 105
(7784 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 2, 2005
Posts: 441
|
yer such a troll, angry, fug that climbin shid an pull plastic, just another varient ( devient?)
See you at Boogaloo 2? Same cell#?
|
|
|
|
|
winglessangel
Jul 11, 2008, 11:17 PM
Post #45 of 105
(7716 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 29, 2004
Posts: 459
|
I disagree.
IMO gym is not harder than rock, neither rock is harder than gym.
Rock climbing is one sport and gym climbing is a completely different one.
Of course, training on one can help your abilities on the other, but only up to a limit.
I say that cause you claim to be a bad-ass rock climber who can't pull a send on plastic and I know other like you. But I also know plenty of gym rats who can't send a 5.10+ sport with pre-placed draws.
|
|
|
|
|
angry
Jul 11, 2008, 11:22 PM
Post #46 of 105
(7712 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
spikeddem wrote: angry wrote: This ranges from big multipitch routes, to fixing an entire sport crag and assaulting it with my mini-trax, to 9 pitch days in Indian Creek, to crack bouldering, campus training, slab climbing, ice, mixed, and even sport.(Emphasis my own.)
I see no errors here.
|
|
|
|
|
angry
Jul 11, 2008, 11:33 PM
Post #47 of 105
(7704 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 22, 2003
Posts: 8405
|
jaybro wrote: yer such a troll, angry, fug that climbin shid an pull plastic, just another varient ( devient?) See you at Boogaloo 2? Same cell#?
I haven't changed my cell in 5 years, so if you have it, it's it. I'll send a PM.
Looking at my schedule, it looks likely. I didn't plan on it at all, but I've got nothing going on those two days at all. That's great that you put it on a monday and tuesday, those are the two days of the week I almost never work so it could happen.
BTW, I don't do the wide fetish thing, but I finally sent my longtime OW proj. I called it crumbling reality. It was appropriate in many ways. I also couldn't climb that grade in a gym.
|
|
|
|
|
dudemanbu
Jul 12, 2008, 2:29 AM
Post #48 of 105
(7685 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 3, 2005
Posts: 941
|
Angry, just wondering.. have you ever climbed in connecticut?
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Jul 12, 2008, 11:58 AM
Post #49 of 105
(7662 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26804
|
angry wrote: I think pulling plastic is bar none, the HARDEST discipline to master in rock climbing. I give major props to those so called "gym rats" those little bastards are some of the fittest climbers on earth.
Only if they would take it ouzide.
|
|
|
|
|
dondada
Aug 3, 2008, 4:11 AM
Post #50 of 105
(7090 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 4, 2007
Posts: 75
|
i agree...the gym is like "lets see how many pull-ups you can do" after doing it once your pretty much done......i can climb for hours outdoors and feel great... when i go inside i get my ass kicked in 45 min and i have 50 year old chicks cruising up 5.11's next to me and i cant scratch my way up a 5.8..out doors im a pretty solid 5.9 climber...but i do think from gym to gym makes a huge difference....vertical heven in ventura, CA had way stiffer grades than edgeworks in tacoma, WA....but in general i must agree with the op
|
|
|
|
|
|
