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An Anchor to Beat On [Part I of the Anchors - Analysis series]
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Partner epoch
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Jul 21, 2008, 6:48 PM
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An Anchor to Beat On [Part I of the Anchors - Analysis series]
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Opposed Nuts, each truck in their own right. Connected with clove-hitched slings. The chordalette was only weighted in the direction that it was set for.

[edit:]This anchor was weighted for toproping directly below the power-point and was weighted for lowering the climber into position as well as arresting any falls that may have happened.[/edit]

Beat Away.


[fixed the title]


(This post was edited by epoch on Nov 16, 2008, 5:09 PM)


zeke_sf


Jul 21, 2008, 7:16 PM
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Re: [epoch] An Anchor to Beat On [In reply to]
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If we beat on your anchor, who has to clean up?

I just wanna know what I'm getting into.


coolcat83


Jul 21, 2008, 7:16 PM
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complicated yet it looks well thought out. was that the only placement you could get? i'm assuming the feature was bomber too. other than that, i like it...just kinda purdy when you analyze it


sky7high


Jul 21, 2008, 7:17 PM
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I'm worried bout the angles of the opposed nuts, seems like there's some force multiplication there.
I also don't like the cordelette, but let's not open that can of worms.

Perhaps you can find an horizontal nut/tricam/hex/cam placement that works both up and down.


(This post was edited by sky7high on Jul 21, 2008, 7:18 PM)


Partner epoch
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Jul 21, 2008, 7:26 PM
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Took about 2 minutes to set up. The crack is a thin sub-tips seam that was smaller than my black Alien. Only small nuts were used for the placements. Flush contact was made on both sides of each nut and each was placed in a slight constriction.


fulton


Jul 21, 2008, 7:42 PM
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I'd like to see that anchor under load -- unless I was climbing on it.


Partner xtrmecat


Jul 21, 2008, 7:44 PM
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If it was all I had I'd holler "belay on" and then "Do Not Fall" and make real sure to not fall on the next pitch either.
Bob


zeke_sf


Jul 21, 2008, 7:50 PM
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I would pop a Jebus nut.


phillygoat


Jul 21, 2008, 7:53 PM
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That looks like science class.


stymingersfink


Jul 21, 2008, 8:12 PM
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Re: [sky7high] An Anchor to Beat On [In reply to]
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sky7high wrote:
I'm worried bout the angles of the opposed nuts, seems like there's some force multiplication there.
I also don't like the cordelette, but let's not open that can of worms.

Perhaps you can find an horizontal nut/tricam/hex/cam placement that works both up and down.
ShockedI'd be worried about the angles there too e-kop. That location looks like a prime candidate for a few pitons though, if it's going to be a regular-type thing.Smile


stymingersfink


Jul 21, 2008, 8:14 PM
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Re: [epoch] An Anchor to Beat On [In reply to]
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epoch wrote:
Took about 2 minutes to set up. The crack is a thin sub-tips seam that was smaller than my black Alien. Only small nuts were used for the placements. Flush contact was made on both sides of each nut and each was placed in a slight constriction.
which appears to be about as good as you were gonna find there.

Agree too with the "belay's on" and "don't fall" sentiments as well.

Were you out of rope, out of seam, or out of gear to decide to anchor there?

edit to add: 'cause if every nut there is smaller than your black alien....


(This post was edited by stymingersfink on Jul 21, 2008, 8:16 PM)


moose_droppings


Jul 21, 2008, 8:25 PM
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Only 2 minutes to set up?

The angle formed on the runner to the first set of opposed nuts (left leg on anchor) form an angle over 90, and the other two runners that make the center leg and right leg look to be close to 90. Really not that big of deal in the over all scheme of things. I'd trust it as long as what you say is true about the placements being bomber in constricted placements since there will be a downward force on them as well as the oppositional force.

Edited to add, the kn strength of the small nuts don't bother so much since there are six to distribute the weight to.


(This post was edited by moose_droppings on Jul 21, 2008, 8:29 PM)


billl7


Jul 21, 2008, 8:40 PM
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If I didn't have a great stance then I would have factored in some 'dynamic' equalization for sure.


skiclimb


Jul 21, 2008, 10:38 PM
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All nuts opposed?? Relying on horizontal pull to remain secure??

Sketch at best...

Seems you've done a complicated but fair job in trying to ensure a fairly horizontal pull under load but fact is your gonna get a fair amount of downward force especially on a couple of the right side peices if something bad happens...I'd bet it would blow under serious shock loading

Did you test it? If so what happenned?


(This post was edited by skiclimb on Jul 21, 2008, 10:43 PM)


billcoe_


Jul 21, 2008, 10:40 PM
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I'd climbing on it all day long and it probably will take an upwards too.

But I can say that I've never set up an anchor like that...yet anyway:-) I can say that my first though was that it looks like it would take a long time to set up and take down. But 2 min? You must have skillz. Congrats.


notapplicable


Jul 21, 2008, 10:47 PM
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Re: [epoch] An Anchor to Beat On [In reply to]
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epoch wrote:
Opposed Nuts, each truck in their own right. Connected with clove-hitched slings. The chordalette was only weighted in the direction that it was set for.

Beat Away.
[IMG]http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg186/reticentbehavior/DSC02195.jpg[/IMG]


If I followed that pitch I would be grining from ear to ear when I saw that rig. Not because of any desire to belay off it mind you but because it just looks so darn neat!


caughtinside


Jul 21, 2008, 10:54 PM
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11 biners 5 slings 6 nuts and a cordelette.

I would have kept climbing.

Or stanced it if you had a ledge.


glytch


Jul 21, 2008, 10:58 PM
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I'd trust that anchor far more for a horizontal pull in either direction than a vertical one. The angles at which the nuts are in opposition are nothing short of terrifying if attempting to pull vertically. Taking as given that that's the only gear available, I'd have sliding x'ed each pair of nuts which would have provided plenty of opposition within pairs of nuts given a vertical pull but would have substantially eased the force multiplication from the american-triangle-ish setup. I'd also have equalized all 3 nut pairs using an ACR or one of the other zillion setups provided in the deluge of anchor rigging threads.

With those two modifications, I'd feel better about the anchor... not good, mind you, but better...


stymingersfink


Jul 21, 2008, 11:31 PM
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caughtinside wrote:
11 biners 5 slings 6 nuts and a cordelette.

I would have kept climbing.

Or stanced it if you had a ledge.
epoch wrote:
notice that break in the rock in the upper left hand corner?

I'm curious as to just what that is...



and how far off the deck it actually would be found.


zibircut


Jul 22, 2008, 3:07 AM
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that's actually 12 biners, 6 nuts, 4 slings, one cordelette and probably another locker needed.

Nice set up, especially, if your two minutes set up time is right. that set up might have taken me atleast ten minutes or plus.

- it's gear intensive.
- considering all three anchor points are opposed, in thin seams by micro-nuts, would make me a bit nervous.
- not sure what else, I would have done tho. So nice solution there.


Partner epoch
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Jul 22, 2008, 4:30 AM
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stymingersfink wrote:
caughtinside wrote:
11 biners 5 slings 6 nuts and a cordelette.

I would have kept climbing.

Or stanced it if you had a ledge.
epoch wrote:
notice that break in the rock in the upper left hand corner?

I'm curious as to just what that is...



and how far off the deck it actually would be found.

I had other options availiable, yes. However I intentionally chose to make an anchor in this seam simply because of this scenario. What you see in the upper-left corner is a 3 foot wide chimney. I am looking down at the anchor at my feet.

I used this as a TR anchor on the sea stack at Acadia. It was tested. Opposed nuts always seem to freak out some climbers. Simply because of the inherent fear of force multiplication. Now, wouldn't someone want to make an opposed placement as their first piece off the ground? What is different about this than a placement as such.

Also, by counting the individual biners and such, yes, it is a bit excess. If I were leading I'd probably either continue climbing until I found a suitable crack, or down climb to the last known crack.

I placed this anchor simply because I could.


chossmonkey


Jul 22, 2008, 4:46 AM
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epoch wrote:
Opposed Nuts, each truck in their own right. Connected with clove-hitched slings. The chordalette was only weighted in the direction that it was set for.

Beat Away.

Its a death trap.

Not from the opposed nuts, but from the wide angles between connecting them.

If it was a TR anchor why didn't you extend the power point further from the seam? That might have helped out the big angles.


reg


Jul 22, 2008, 5:11 AM
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epoch wrote:
Took about 2 minutes to set up.

there is no way you did that in "about" two minutes.


jt512


Jul 22, 2008, 7:40 AM
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epoch wrote:
Opposed Nuts, each truck in their own right. Connected with clove-hitched slings. The chordalette was only weighted in the direction that it was set for.

Beat Away.

Can you say "cascade failure"? This is exactly the kind of anchor where optimal equalization should be the priority. Tying those placements together with a cordellete seems a terrible idea. You need a sliding X or equalette here.

Jay


the_climber


Jul 22, 2008, 8:59 AM
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stymingersfink wrote:
sky7high wrote:
I'm worried bout the angles of the opposed nuts, seems like there's some force multiplication there.
I also don't like the cordelette, but let's not open that can of worms.

Perhaps you can find an horizontal nut/tricam/hex/cam placement that works both up and down.
ShockedI'd be worried about the angles there too e-kop. That location looks like a prime candidate for a few pitons though, if it's going to be a regular-type thing.Smile

Carries t3e st33lz and hammer home t3e solidz belayz!

.Really though the pic is firewalled and I won't be able to see it till later.
If it's limestone file the long KB's down to more of a point (ie. less chissle like) and they'll both start and set easier, not to mention clean easier. If it's granite that blunt chissle end seem to work/set better
.


(This post was edited by the_climber on Jul 22, 2008, 9:01 AM)

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