Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Big Wall and Aid Climbing:
What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid?
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Big Wall and Aid Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 

Poll: What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid?
Brassies (size 1-8) 1 / 8%
Peenuts (1-5) 4 / 33%
BD micro-nuts (1-6) 2 / 17%
Ballnutz (1-2) 1 / 8%
Any cheap micro nuts on sale (i.e Omega Pacific) 3 / 25%
Other 1 / 8%
12 total votes
 

fluffystuff


Aug 14, 2008, 8:44 AM
Post #1 of 18 (3046 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2006
Posts: 40

What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid?
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I can borrow aiders, etc... so I'm just looking to buy pro for granite climbs. What would you recommend to add to my rack first? I have a mix-up of smallish stuff:
#000, #00, & #2 C3
two #0 and two #1 metolius power cams
1-4 Omega Pacific nuts
and the standard set of bd nuts, size 4-13

a few climbs on my wish list are twilight zone at the gunks (c2 5.7) and the prow at cathedral (c1+ 5.7). yeehaw! if things go great, the south face (c1 5.8) looks amazing too!

well, thanks for any help. = )


coastal_climber


Aug 14, 2008, 9:19 AM
Post #2 of 18 (3025 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 16, 2006
Posts: 2542

Re: [fluffystuff] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

You've got to get more small cams, perhaps aliens?


>Cam


hafilax


Aug 14, 2008, 11:35 AM
Post #3 of 18 (2992 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 3025

Re: [fluffystuff] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I've only done a couple of aid climbs but I would add some hooks and cam hooks.


stymingersfink


Aug 14, 2008, 11:52 AM
Post #4 of 18 (2976 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250

Re: [fluffystuff] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

fluffystuff wrote:
I can borrow aiders, etc... so I'm just looking to buy pro for granite climbs. What would you recommend to add to my rack first? I have a mix-up of smallish stuff:
#000, #00, & #2 C3
two #0 and two #1 metolius power cams
1-4 Omega Pacific nuts
and the standard set of bd nuts, size 4-13

a few climbs on my wish list are twilight zone at the gunks (c2 5.7) and the prow at cathedral (c1+ 5.7). yeehaw! if things go great, the south face (c1 5.8) looks amazing too!

well, thanks for any help. = )


Additions to your Clean Aid rack??

Pairs of hooks, starting with the Leeper Cam-Hook (but including pairs of Talon's and Cliffhangers too), as these will speed your upward progress substantially, provided you have the head for using them. When climbing a crack or seam, if the thought of taking a clean 30-40footer onto a bomber nut or cam doesn't bother you, you'll be able to move 15-20 feet over that bomber piece fairly quickly just by leap-frogging those cam hooks.

When you run out of cam-hook placements or start feeling uncomfortable with the runout, throw in a good piece and leave it behind. (NOTE: Cam-hooks are not recommended for sandstone, due to the forces at play in the camming action of the hook, which tends to blow-out sandstone crack edges, leaving behind useless pods)


Now, as far as "needing" more gear for get up a clean route... My recommendation above for running out sections on cam-hooks applies the same to utilizing cams. Cams are quick and easy to place, also quick and easy to clean. If you make use of this feature, you'll need less gear to get up any route vs. leaving every piece in its placement.

For these recommendations to work for you, you've got to develop an understanding and anticipation of where the route's going and what it's going to take to clean. If the pitch traverses heavily, it may not be possible to back-clean gear without making the jug+clean nearly impossible, however if the pitch is fairly straight up the only limiting factor is your comfort level with the fall potential.

Getting uncomfortable with it? Make that next piece a nut, as you'll not be back-cleaning it anyway. Is it a tiny nut? Maybe make another nut placement for the next piece, and add a screamer to it for insurance.


Taking this advice and integrating it into your clean climbing will enable you to climb the straight-forward C1 - C2 climbs with less gear, meaning you can do it NOW. It will also make the jug+clean faster, as you'll be cleaning fewer pieces.

As you begin getting into the more tricky C2+ routes, you'll already have enough experience to know what you need to purchase next to fill out the rack.

Smile


alpenweg


Aug 14, 2008, 12:14 PM
Post #5 of 18 (2952 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 19, 2007
Posts: 204

Re: [fluffystuff] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

good insurance

haha


fluffystuff


Aug 14, 2008, 1:10 PM
Post #6 of 18 (2926 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2006
Posts: 40

Re: [stymingersfink] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Thanks! That sounds like the road to ramping up on aid quickly. Not sure if I'd have the nerve to leap frog the hooks much... but never thought I'd be climbing trad either.

Will buy a black alien, a set of brassies, and two hooks.

(btw... i have the standard .3 to 3 c4s. just looking to transition the trad rack to work for aid. thanks again for the awesome, progressive advice! ha! ha! at the very least health insurance will be a good thing)


stymingersfink


Aug 14, 2008, 1:16 PM
Post #7 of 18 (2922 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250

Re: [fluffystuff] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

fluffystuff wrote:
Thanks! That sounds like the road to ramping up on aid quickly. Not sure if I'd have the nerve to leap frog the hooks much... but never thought I'd be climbing trad either.

Will buy a black alien, a set of brassies, and two hooks.

(btw... i have the standard .3 to 3 c4s. just looking to transition the trad rack to work for aid. thanks again for the awesome, progressive advice! ha! ha! at the very least health insurance will be a good thing)
don't forget to get some webbing to sling the hooks on, and a couple of things to keep in mind:

Never, EVER, EVER look at a hook as you weight it. If it pops you might lose an eye or a tooth. I usually cover the hook with my gloved hand as I step onto it.

Practice using the hooks while on the ground first, where you can try many various ways of loading the hook without danger of falling. You should quickly discover which placements work best, and just how marginal of a hook you can expect to support your weight.


flamer


Aug 16, 2008, 7:23 AM
Post #8 of 18 (2826 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955

Re: [fluffystuff] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

fluffystuff wrote:
(btw... i have the standard .3 to 3 c4s. just looking to transition the trad rack to work for aid. thanks again for the awesome, progressive advice! ha! ha! at the very least health insurance will be a good thing)

Aliens will work in many more placements vs. any other small cam on the market. They are essential for clean aid climbing.

josh


stymingersfink


Aug 16, 2008, 7:51 AM
Post #9 of 18 (2823 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250

Re: [flamer] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

flamer wrote:
fluffystuff wrote:
(btw... i have the standard .3 to 3 c4s. just looking to transition the trad rack to work for aid. thanks again for the awesome, progressive advice! ha! ha! at the very least health insurance will be a good thing)

Aliens will work in many more placements vs. any other small cam on the market. They are essential for clean aid climbing.

josh
if you're going ot go the aliens route, just get a double set of the hybrids black/blue-yellow/red. I treat them like cam-hooks any more.


summerprophet


Aug 17, 2008, 8:43 PM
Post #10 of 18 (2764 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 16, 2004
Posts: 764

Re: [fluffystuff] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Second stymies advice, don't look at hooks, or at gear when you are testing it.

As far as gear, A set each of regular brassies, and offset brassies (available from Yosemite mountain shop online) as well as smaller cams should do the trick. Them little nuts are damn expensive, I would look for a partner who has some, or is willing to shell out for them.

Small cams.... atleast doubles to as tiny as you can get. Hybrids nice for the valley.

Clean aid runs through as many tie offs as pin bashing too, get a bunch.

A few beaks are good to have if you are climbing through old copper head routes, for hooking over dead heads.

Small 1/4" bolt kit handy if you are not entirely on trade routes.

Disclaimer:
All my aid is Yosemite and Squamish, this information may be near useless in your neck of the woods, not a bad idea to ask locally.


flamer


Aug 18, 2008, 9:26 AM
Post #11 of 18 (2714 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955

Re: [summerprophet] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

summerprophet wrote:
Disclaimer:
All my aid is Yosemite and Squamish, this information may be near useless in your neck of the woods, not a bad idea to ask locally.


Maybe the best advice on this thread so far.....

josh


stymingersfink


Aug 18, 2008, 10:08 AM
Post #12 of 18 (2702 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 12, 2003
Posts: 7250

Re: [flamer] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

flamer wrote:
summerprophet wrote:
Disclaimer:
All my aid is Yosemite and Squamish, this information may be near useless in your neck of the woods, not a bad idea to ask locally.


Maybe the best advice on this thread so far.....

josh
yeah, right after never looking at hooks Wink


epic_ed


Aug 18, 2008, 5:08 PM
Post #13 of 18 (2656 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jun 17, 2002
Posts: 4723

Re: [stymingersfink] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

stymingersfink wrote:
flamer wrote:
summerprophet wrote:
Disclaimer:
All my aid is Yosemite and Squamish, this information may be near useless in your neck of the woods, not a bad idea to ask locally.


Maybe the best advice on this thread so far.....

josh
yeah, right after never looking at hooks Wink

Took a pecker to the lips early in my aid climbing adventures. And, no, I wasn't exploring my ghhhey side. Learned the hard way to never look at a piece you're testing. I heard about it for weeks from my climbing buddies -- about how I "blew a pecker".

Yeah, it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. Or a tooth. Or a pecker...

Ed


tomcat


Aug 18, 2008, 5:27 PM
Post #14 of 18 (2642 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 15, 2006
Posts: 324

Re: [epic_ed] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

^^^^^that's funny ^^^^

Pretty sure you don't need any hooks for the Prow.I know I didn't have any.Flashlight came in handy when i finally got one though....


Partner holdplease2


Aug 20, 2008, 7:30 AM
Post #15 of 18 (2579 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: 1733

Re: [tomcat] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Ed, I actually remember when you blew your pecker!

Ballnutz are absolutely the best thing ever, especially under roofs.

Even if you're not totally worried about whether or not you nail from a rock preservation standpoint, there are still good reasons to hone clean aid skills:

* If features are loose you are at less risk of blowing said feature off the wall if you place 180 pounds of pressure on a nut or ball nut than if you wail in a pin

* In some features, such as roofs where you would nail straight up, pins can tend to come out by pulling straight down, especially if there is even the slightest expansion in the roof. Ballnutz and tiny cams can be far more secure.

* When climbing an expanding feature, the range of tools like ballnutz and regular nuts (when placed in a constriction) can make you more secure when you do have to nail a pin.

* BD Peckers: While these may be tapped in, and not really clean aid in that case, they often take a lot less nailing than lost arrows or blades. Additionally, if they are cleaned carefully, they are far more likely to result in a secure clean placement, where they are just placed in the rock like a hook, than a lost arrow or blade which are frequently cleaned carelessly resulting in blown out nearly useless scars that require more nailing.

I'd definately get the three or four smallest sizes of ballnutz, and make sure that you know how to clean them:

1) Tap the bottom of the plate (not the ball) with your nut tool or a pin to jar it loose

2) (my favorite) A very gentle funk to the side will cause the plate to slide off of the ball, they remove like a dream. Can damage the ballnut after awhile, but done right, its super efficient, saves time, and doesn't really hurt the piece.

3) See above...leaning out on a ballnut placement in a vertical crack can have the same effect, causing the placement to fail. Be extra careful with these guys. 80% of my ballnut placements are in sligltly overhanging cracks or roofs.

-Kate.

-Kate.


flamer


Aug 20, 2008, 4:23 PM
Post #16 of 18 (2523 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955

Re: [holdplease2] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

holdplease2 wrote:
3) See above...leaning out on a ballnut placement in a vertical crack can have the same effect, causing the placement to fail. Be extra careful with these guys. 80% of my ballnut placements are in sligltly overhanging cracks or roofs.

I agree that ballnuts are a very good clean aid tool...they will work where absolutely nothing else will.
With that said pay close attention to what Kate said above. Some of my scariest moments aid climbing have come from using ballnuts...I was generally using them at the edge of what is possible with them...but they will 'wiggle' out. I've had this problem in roofs as well. Becareful 'swinging' around on them in a roof!

josh

P.S.
Kate!! What's New? Will i ever see my QD's again?
I'll be in the Valley for a couple of weeks in Sept.....we should at least drink beer!


Partner holdplease2


Aug 20, 2008, 11:04 PM
Post #17 of 18 (2483 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 17, 2002
Posts: 1733

Re: [flamer] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Hey Josh!

Your QDs are very safe on a dedicated hook on my rack pegboard. As I am incapable of mailing, I will now deposit them in my car, in the glove box, and leave them there till I see you. At that point, we'll walk to the car, with our beers, and I'll hand them to you personally!

I hear you've been tearing it up, and can't wait to hear the stories in person!

:)

-Kate.


flamer


Aug 20, 2008, 11:57 PM
Post #18 of 18 (2472 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 22, 2002
Posts: 2955

Re: [holdplease2] What would you buy first to start getting into clean aid? [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

holdplease2 wrote:
I hear you've been tearing it up, and can't wait to hear the stories in person!

Back at you! I think maybe we have some strories to swap! looking forward to it.

josh


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Big Wall and Aid Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook