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mtnrock


Aug 26, 2008, 1:18 PM
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when to retire a rope
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i know theres like a ton of forums on this but none say when to retire a rop only used for top rope ive never takin any bad falls on it and its only been used for top rope when should i retier it


hopperhopper


Aug 26, 2008, 1:28 PM
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Re: [mtnrock] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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mtnrock wrote:
i know theres like a ton of forums on this but none say when to retire a rop only used for top rope ive never takin any bad falls on it and its only been used for top rope when should i retier it

u tpye gud


Gmburns2000


Aug 26, 2008, 1:36 PM
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Re: [mtnrock] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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The mfg usually states when to retire their ropes, and most will say so according to a particular usage pattern (i.e. - every week vs twice per year), etc.

In short, even if you haven't used the rope, you should probably think about retiring it after about five years. That doesn't mean you should retire it then, but at the very least you should inspect it.

This feels like a troll, but woyon.


flipnfall


Aug 26, 2008, 2:18 PM
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Re: [mtnrock] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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I'll give you an address to send it to. It's a PO box.

Laugh

In seriousness, if you have doubts about it, inspect it for damage and then start using it for top roping.

GT


mtnrock


Aug 26, 2008, 2:32 PM
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Re: [hopperhopper] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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are you like trying to criticke me on how i write cause thats just lame


mtnrock


Aug 26, 2008, 2:35 PM
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Re: [flipnfall] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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good idea and then you could send me your rope and i could see how good yours is to lol but yea ive never used it for lead and its all fine


irregularpanda


Aug 26, 2008, 2:57 PM
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Re: [mtnrock] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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mtnrock wrote:
when should i retier it


When the rop (?) experiences incontinence.


Seriously, a rope peeing on itself is pretty embarrassing, especially when it's out at the crag and a bunch of the popular, shiny, new ropes watch it happen.


flipnfall


Aug 26, 2008, 3:07 PM
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irregularpanda wrote:
Seriously, a rope peeing on itself is pretty embarrassing, especially when it's out at the crag and a bunch of the popular, shiny, new ropes watch it happen.

I'm lost... Crazy

I had someone pee on me when I was climbing (they didn't see me below), but that's different and not so abstract as the statement above.

GT


canterbury


Aug 26, 2008, 10:43 PM
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Re: [flipnfall] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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flipnfall wrote:
if you have doubts about it, inspect it for damage and then start using it for top roping.

you missed the point, OP said it's already a top rope


curt


Aug 26, 2008, 11:01 PM
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Re: [irregularpanda] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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irregularpanda wrote:
mtnrock wrote:
when should i retier it


When the rop (?) experiences incontinence.

...or reaches age 65. Seriously, STFU, eat shit and die.

Curt


tradrenn


Aug 27, 2008, 2:39 AM
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Re: [mtnrock] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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mtnrock wrote:
i know theres like a ton of forums on this but none say when to retire a rop only used for top rope ive never takin any bad falls on it and its only been used for top rope when should i retier it

Few years ago someone posted a link to UIAA web site, they did some testing of lead ropes used for top roping and figure that constant top roping on lead rope makes it weaker up to 40% so I think your post has some merit to it.

Sorry I don't have a link anymore to post it so you could have a look at it.

The way I think about rope is that it is your (or mine) "live line" , if your rope is crap so is all else.

I don't top rope anymore this days, but I do charge myself $0.25 every route and $0.50 every fall that me or my partner takes on my rope. In the end I'm getting a new rope every 2 years.

I know that top roping falls seem not as hard, but that UIAA study does make you think, doesn't it ?

HTH


shoo


Aug 27, 2008, 4:19 AM
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Re: [mtnrock] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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The requirements for retiring a rope don't change for top-rope vs. lead. Do a full rope inspection. If you find any signs of damage or have other reason to suspect it, retire the rope.

Basic rope inspection procedure:

Be in a well-lit room when you do this. Start from one end of the rope in your hand. Run the rope through your hand, keeping pressure on it the whole time. Every few inches, make a bight in the rope and squeeze. Make sure as you are doing this that you are looking at the entire rope (you can turn it around a little to see all sides).

What you are looking for:
Frayed sheath: The standard I always hear is 50% fraying. If more than 50% of the sheath is frayed, retire it. However, this is a fairly arbitrary and difficult to gauge measure.

Core shot: If you can see the core (usually white), retire it.

Glazing: The sheath of the rope will be hardened, slightly shiny, and darker than the surrounding material. This is an indication of heat damage, usually caused by too rapidly running a rope through a belay device or webbing.

Flat spots: This is where the squeeze test comes in handy. If you come across a spot that seems unusually soft or flat, chances are the core is either shifted or damaged. Shifting is fine, damage is not. It is difficult to tell which it might be without removing the sheath (which destroys the rope), so err on the side of caution.

Hard spots: This is again with the squeeze test. A hard spot can indicate core shift (not so bad as long as it isn't cause by a break elsewhere in the rope), a core break (very bad), chemical (very bad), or heat damage (also very bad). A hard spot paired with a soft spot can either indicate a core shift or break. Again, since you often can't tell, err on the side of caution.

Discoloration: Usually indicates UV or chemical damage. Retire if discoloration is significant. If you are unsure if it's just dirt, wash the rope using the manufacturer's recommendations. If discoloration isn't mostly gone, it's probably chemical or UV related. Retire.

If you have any other reason to suspect the rope, retire it.


(This post was edited by shoo on Aug 27, 2008, 4:24 AM)


coolcat83


Aug 27, 2008, 4:51 AM
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Re: [mtnrock] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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mtnrock wrote:
i know theres like a ton of forums on this but none say when to retire a rop only used for top rope ive never takin any bad falls on it and its only been used for top rope when should i retier it

in general 3-5 years(of occasional use according to blue water), but tring does put a lot of wear from constant loading/unloading of the rope, so after a while the elasticity of the rope will be reduced...so if you tr heavily on the thing for 2 years and then go leading watch out because it may not be quite at forgiving.


(This post was edited by coolcat83 on Aug 27, 2008, 4:51 AM)


Partner j_ung


Aug 27, 2008, 5:53 AM
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Re: [shoo] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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shoo wrote:
The requirements for retiring a rope don't change for top-rope vs. lead. Do a full rope inspection. If you find any signs of damage or have other reason to suspect it, retire the rope.

Basic rope inspection procedure:

Be in a well-lit room when you do this. Start from one end of the rope in your hand. Run the rope through your hand, keeping pressure on it the whole time. Every few inches, make a bight in the rope and squeeze. Make sure as you are doing this that you are looking at the entire rope (you can turn it around a little to see all sides).

What you are looking for:
Frayed sheath: The standard I always hear is 50% fraying. If more than 50% of the sheath is frayed, retire it. However, this is a fairly arbitrary and difficult to gauge measure.

Core shot: If you can see the core (usually white), retire it.

Glazing: The sheath of the rope will be hardened, slightly shiny, and darker than the surrounding material. This is an indication of heat damage, usually caused by too rapidly running a rope through a belay device or webbing.

Flat spots: This is where the squeeze test comes in handy. If you come across a spot that seems unusually soft or flat, chances are the core is either shifted or damaged. Shifting is fine, damage is not. It is difficult to tell which it might be without removing the sheath (which destroys the rope), so err on the side of caution.

Hard spots: This is again with the squeeze test. A hard spot can indicate core shift (not so bad as long as it isn't cause by a break elsewhere in the rope), a core break (very bad), chemical (very bad), or heat damage (also very bad). A hard spot paired with a soft spot can either indicate a core shift or break. Again, since you often can't tell, err on the side of caution.

Discoloration: Usually indicates UV or chemical damage. Retire if discoloration is significant. If you are unsure if it's just dirt, wash the rope using the manufacturer's recommendations. If discoloration isn't mostly gone, it's probably chemical or UV related. Retire.

If you have any other reason to suspect the rope, retire it.

This is reasonably good info, but I'll amend it to say that you don't necessarily have to retire the whole rope when damage is confined to a small portion of it. When damage is close to an end, but the rest of the rope seems okay, just chop the end off.


shoo


Aug 27, 2008, 6:11 AM
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Re: [j_ung] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
This is reasonably good info, but I'll amend it to say that you don't necessarily have to retire the whole rope when damage is confined to a small portion of it. When damage is close to an end, but the rest of the rope seems okay, just chop the end off.

Agreed. Now to add the Shoo-approved rope whipping (cutting and sealing) technique. I've found that this works much, much better than anything else I've used, including heat knives.

Materials:
Tape: Although electrical tape is the most common, I prefer masking tape for this application. It cuts through easily, doesn't stretch (helps keep the rope tight), and doesn't leave behind a gross sticky reside after you remove it.
Knife: You're looking for something sharp (very) and with a straight edge.
Flame: I prefer a butane lighter, but I've done it perfectly well with a match, Bic lighter, and a propane torch as well.

1. Choose where you want to cut the rope.
2. Wrap the masking tape extremely tightly around the rope at that point. You're aiming to compress the rope as much as possible. This helps it bond when you apply flame. Wrap 2-3 times around, straight around.
3. Put taped rope on a hard surface.
4. Cut straight through the center of the tape. This should be really easy. If you're having a hard time with this and sawing back and forth more than once or twice, either the tape isn't tight enough or your knife isn't sharp enough.
5. Apply flame. Try to avoid direct contact between the flame and the rope. There is a point at which the end will melt, but won't char. That's what you're aiming for. Continue to apply flame until the entire surface has an even, thick coat of solid, brownish, melted nylon.
6. Wait a couple of minutes to let it harden. You can remove the tape after a couple of seconds if you prefer. Or you can keep it on if you want, I guess. Makes it easier to find the ends.


(This post was edited by shoo on Aug 27, 2008, 6:13 AM)


markc


Aug 27, 2008, 6:14 AM
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Re: [j_ung] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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j_ung wrote:
This is reasonably good info, but I'll amend it to say that you don't necessarily have to retire the whole rope when damage is confined to a small portion of it. When damage is close to an end, but the rest of the rope seems okay, just chop the end off.

That was my thought, as well. Even if the good portion is relatively short, it may come in handy as a gym or crag rope. Just make sure your partners are aware that it's no longer a standard length.

As I understand it, one of the major factors for rope retirement is a reduction in their dynamic properties over time. If you're toproping, that's not a major concern. Shoo did a nice job of covering rope inspection. If all else is well, I don't have any major concerns with using an older rope strictly for toproping. (Most people I know that have been climbing a while have an old semi-retired rope for that purpose. It saves you lead line(s) from the abuses of toproping.)


robbovius


Aug 27, 2008, 6:45 AM
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Re: [mtnrock] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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mtnrock wrote:
when should i retier it

well, what tier are you trying to get to? the upper tier? or the mid-shelf?

is the rop's reteirment plan fully amortized? than yor goldin.


chossmonkey


Aug 27, 2008, 8:08 AM
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Re: [shoo] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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shoo wrote:
The requirements for retiring a rope don't change for top-rope vs. lead.
I'd disagree.


Partner drector


Aug 27, 2008, 8:17 AM
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Re: [mtnrock] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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mtnrock wrote:
are you like trying to criticke me on how i write cause thats just lame

I think he was trying to help you and the rest of us. No one likes reading badly written crap. It's like trying to talk to a really ugly person at a party; they might have interesting stuff to say but... "what was that? I didn't notice what you said because you are so ugly." If your going to write this badly, you had better get comfortable being reamed for it on the Internet.

To answer the original question, most comments by non-experts on the internet suggest that manufacturers say five years. I don't know what manufacturers really say since I have not talked to one. My ropes don't last that long anyhow.

There are lots of used rope disposal engineers on the internet who will be happy to take it off your hands.

Dave


flipnfall


Aug 27, 2008, 8:22 AM
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Re: [canterbury] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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canterbury wrote:
flipnfall wrote:
if you have doubts about it, inspect it for damage and then start using it for top roping.

you missed the point, OP said it's already a top rope

Well then, never mind.


markc


Aug 27, 2008, 8:23 AM
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Re: [chossmonkey] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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chossmonkey wrote:
shoo wrote:
The requirements for retiring a rope don't change for top-rope vs. lead.
I'd disagree.

In my book what Shoo outlined for inspection apply to both in varying degrees. The inspection points he listed were frayed sheath, core shot, glazing, flat spots, hard spots, and discoloration. For leading purposes, I'd add the dynamic requirement. You don't want an old cord giving you a hard catch on lead, but I consider it a non-issue with standard toproping falls.


Tipton


Aug 27, 2008, 9:23 AM
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Re: [shoo] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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shoo wrote:
j_ung wrote:
This is reasonably good info, but I'll amend it to say that you don't necessarily have to retire the whole rope when damage is confined to a small portion of it. When damage is close to an end, but the rest of the rope seems okay, just chop the end off.

Agreed. Now to add the Shoo-approved rope whipping (cutting and sealing) technique. I've found that this works much, much better than anything else I've used, including heat knives.

Materials:
Tape: Although electrical tape is the most common, I prefer masking tape for this application. It cuts through easily, doesn't stretch (helps keep the rope tight), and doesn't leave behind a gross sticky reside after you remove it.
Knife: You're looking for something sharp (very) and with a straight edge.
Flame: I prefer a butane lighter, but I've done it perfectly well with a match, Bic lighter, and a propane torch as well.

1. Choose where you want to cut the rope.
2. Wrap the masking tape extremely tightly around the rope at that point. You're aiming to compress the rope as much as possible. This helps it bond when you apply flame. Wrap 2-3 times around, straight around.
3. Put taped rope on a hard surface.
4. Cut straight through the center of the tape. This should be really easy. If you're having a hard time with this and sawing back and forth more than once or twice, either the tape isn't tight enough or your knife isn't sharp enough.
5. Apply flame. Try to avoid direct contact between the flame and the rope. There is a point at which the end will melt, but won't char. That's what you're aiming for. Continue to apply flame until the entire surface has an even, thick coat of solid, brownish, melted nylon.
6. Wait a couple of minutes to let it harden. You can remove the tape after a couple of seconds if you prefer. Or you can keep it on if you want, I guess. Makes it easier to find the ends.

I always use the eye of the stove to fuse the end. It works so much better than open flame and you can easily adjust the temp.


jt512


Aug 27, 2008, 9:36 AM
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Re: [tradrenn] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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tradrenn wrote:
I don't top rope anymore this days, but I do charge myself $0.25 every route and $0.50 every fall that me or my partner takes on my rope.

Better not let me use your rope, unless you've got a trust fund, or something.

Jay


chossmonkey


Aug 27, 2008, 10:30 AM
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Re: [markc] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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markc wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
shoo wrote:
The requirements for retiring a rope don't change for top-rope vs. lead.
I'd disagree.

In my book what Shoo outlined for inspection apply to both in varying degrees.
I haven't read your book.


markc


Aug 27, 2008, 11:35 AM
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Re: [chossmonkey] when to retire a rope [In reply to]
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chossmonkey wrote:
markc wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
shoo wrote:
The requirements for retiring a rope don't change for top-rope vs. lead.
I'd disagree.

In my book what Shoo outlined for inspection apply to both in varying degrees.
I haven't read your book.

I'll send you a copy once it's finished.

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