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rocks_good_hippies_bad
Aug 28, 2008, 3:22 PM
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I'm thinking about picking up or just making a rope bucket to use on long climbs (Cannon Cliff) to help with rope management. However, as I'm usually the stronger climber I tend to lead most if not all the pitches. How is leading two or more pitches in a row? Is pulling the rope from the bottom of the bucket a pain in the ass?
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kennoyce
Aug 28, 2008, 3:38 PM
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I find a way to alleviate this problem is to swap rope ends at the top of each pitch. Granted this does take a minute to do, and it also necessitates the use of slings to hang on rather than just clove hitching the lead rope into the master point. Even with these downsides it is still way better than trying to feed out slack from the bottom of a full rope bucket. Hope this helps.
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rocks_good_hippies_bad
Aug 28, 2008, 5:26 PM
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Yeah, I thought about that but it seems that would negate any time savings. Think the bucket might only work for swapping leads.
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altelis
Aug 28, 2008, 5:32 PM
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The two fastest ways I know of for leading in blocks in regards to rope management is:
1) Retie at every belay
2) Stack the rope NEATLY over your tether and make each consecutive loop smaller, then FLIP the stack
(WILL NOT WORK WITH DOUBLES/TWINS)
Honestly, I've found that retying is the fastest because invariably the flip method will produce some relatively large clusters, and the time saved goes out the window once that happens.
WARNING: of course remember that retying at each pitch (especially when you are getting tired/cold/etc) introduces many more possible times for fucking up, ie miss-tying your knot. just be careful is all.
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climbingaggie03
Aug 28, 2008, 6:19 PM
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I lead in blocks and either coil it on a sling and then flip it, or if i'm on a ledge, I'll stack it, and then re-stack it to get my end on top. It takes maybe 2 mins and I don't have to worry about screwing up my tie in.
also I think I read in a speed climbing book that you can clip in with 2 lockers and then switch ends by simply unclipping and re-clipping, I don't do this cause the idea of taking a lead fall with my tie-in being 2 lockers makes me nervous (although I don't worry about the non locker on my pro failing, so maybe it's all in my head) but some people do it and it works for them.
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pmyche
Oct 9, 2008, 10:16 PM
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iamthewallress
Oct 10, 2008, 3:07 AM
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Usually, in the time it takes of the leader to deal w/ rack and get ready to leave, the second can have the rope restacked. Neither take that long if you're dialed, and both take forever if you're not.
If you're moving warp speed and short fixing, there won't be many times where you're at he same belay anyway.
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anthonymason
Oct 13, 2008, 8:32 AM
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I use the Snake Charmer(FISH) rope bag for my aid -solo trips it works great for me.
I have a traditional rope bucket and it is a pain arse, check out the Snake charmer great design, especially if you are like me often soloing, and doing all of the work.
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lambone
Oct 14, 2008, 9:39 PM
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My Block system with Partners is this:
3 ropes- Lead Line, Haul line, and 6mill 200ft tag line
Tag line is stacked in it's own small rope bag (small Metoliuos wall bag)
Lead and Haul stacked in Fish Snake Charmer.
When leading in blocks I will get to the belay, second ties a knot in the tag line and clips on: tag bag with extra tag line still flaked inside, haul rope with hauler, water, bullet pack, radio, extra rack, and anything else.
First I build the anchor, go off belay, then pull up any extra slack in the lead line and fix it to the power point.
Next, I pull up the tag with a Petzl Mini Traxion. Set the hauler and haulline on a seperate anchor and get the haulbag free from below ASAP.
Then I restack my Tag line, and put myself on belay with a grigri with a fatty steel auto-safety locker and the rest of the lead line, back up knot of course.
Then I lead out while the second cleans...and/or third jugs a free line. The second then gets to the belay and haul the bag while I'm still leading. Then as soon as the bag is up they can restack the haul line, and put me on belay.
If perfectly timed this all happens before I either 1. run out of slack in the lead line. 2. Run out of gear for the pitch. If not perfectly timed I start yelling at the second to hurry the F-up and smoke a cig.
One thing I have decided to do lately is use two seperate figure eight on a bight knots (not clovehitches which can sieze) at the power point, one for the cleaners fixed line, and one for my soloingt anchor. That way if I whip there isn't a ton of force applied to one knot pulling in two seperate directions (up and down). If you do whip the second jugging on the cleaning rope will give you somewhat of a dynamic belay. Don't factor-2 on the anchor, put in good gear right off the belay and use a couple screamers!
All this is dependeant on the second being willing and physically able to do the hauling on their own. Or having a third partner to help with heavy pigs. Often I don't start leading in Blocks and short fixing until higher on the wall when the pigs are lighter. At the bottom the hauling just takes too long and requires both bodies on the line to move it.
(This post was edited by lambone on Oct 14, 2008, 9:55 PM)
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irregularpanda
Oct 14, 2008, 9:50 PM
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edited, because I'm a moron today.
(This post was edited by irregularpanda on Oct 14, 2008, 10:13 PM)
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billl7
Oct 14, 2008, 10:47 PM
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For rope buckets, there is an alternative to pulling the rope from the bottom, albeit a little more pricey. Copied from another thread:
billl7 wrote: On the issue of rope management at the belay: Besides careful stacking, a completely different option is for both partners to carry something like the Black Diamond Super Slacker Rope Bag, http://www.rei.com/product/610123 (available elsewhere - REI just had the 1st good pic that I found). When you get to the belay and after setting up the anchor: * unzip the rope bag; * place it around the rope and zip it back up; * cinch tight the end where your rope comes out of the bag (might need a loose big knot in the rope to keep it from slipping out that end); * clip the bag to the anchor with the open end up; * as you bring up your second, periodically stuff the excess slack into the bag. When your partner arrives and if he/she will lead the next pitch then rope management is simply in the reverse (pay rope out from the bag). If instead you will continue leading, cinch shut the top end of the bag, flip it over, open the other end, and take out any big knot. But before you cast off on lead, take with you the rope bag your partner was carrying. I tried this last Sunday on a 7 pitch route and it afforded nearly effortless rope management at belays. Also, the rope will stay cleaner when the alternative is to 'stack' it on a dirty ledge. On the other hand there is the cost, a little extra weight, and a couple minutes spent setting it up and putting it away at each belay. Bill L Edit: Also, on the climb, we were using double ropes. The above method completely removed the extra noodle factor of double ropes. |
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