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thegrassr00ts
Aug 29, 2008, 5:42 PM
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Hey all,
I have been climbing for about 2 years, and I;m starting to push into the mid 5.11's. I'm really tall and lean and I climb with a lot of people who are significantly better than me, and they all agree that I have very good technique, footwork, and use my length (huge ape index) well in terms of tension. As far as power and straight strength I feel pretty confident, I can usually crank about 25 pull-ups until I fail. What I am finding though is that I am beginning to plateau at this level because my fingers simply aren't strong enough to be comfortable on harder routes on small crimps, pockets, slopes, and edges. I have a hangboard and do dead hangs and boulder at least 3 times a week, but I'm looking for some sort of workout besides HIT because I don't have access to a strip, that really focuses on recruiting finger strength. The dead hangs just don't seem to be doing it and I feel like every aspect of my climbing in far ahead of my finger strength so I'm looking for something to catch it up quickly and hopefully shoot into 12's. If anyone has any suggestions it would be most appreciate, specifically aimed at a hangboard. Thanks.
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jt512
Aug 29, 2008, 6:07 PM
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thegrassr00ts wrote: Hey all, I have been climbing for about 2 years, and I;m starting to push into the mid 5.11's. I'm really tall and lean and I climb with a lot of people who are significantly better than me, and they all agree that I have very good technique, footwork, and use my length (huge ape index) well in terms of tension. As far as power and straight strength I feel pretty confident, I can usually crank about 25 pull-ups until I fail. What I am finding though is that I am beginning to plateau at this level because my fingers simply aren't strong enough to be comfortable on harder routes on small crimps, pockets, slopes, and edges.
What do you mean by "be comfortable." I'm not comfortable on hard routes, either. Part of learning to climb hard is to accept the fact that it's not comfortable. On some routes you feel like you're going to fall on every move. Part of the challenge is to accept that that's the way it is.
In reply to: I have a hangboard and do dead hangs and boulder at least 3 times a week, but I'm looking for some sort of workout besides HIT because I don't have access to a strip, that really focuses on recruiting finger strength. The dead hangs just don't seem to be doing it and I feel like every aspect of my climbing in far ahead of my finger strength...
Dead hang from smaller holds, then add weight. For crimp strength, I like to dead hang from campus board rungs. Usually, the edges of the rungs are rounded off, which makes it harder to hold on. Also, climb routes that work your weaknesses. If you need to build crimp strength, climb crimp routes. If you can set routes at a gym, you can train pretty intensely by setting routes that relentlessly work a particular weakness.
Jay
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thegrassr00ts
Aug 30, 2008, 1:57 AM
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Thanks man. By comfortable I mean I can climb mid 5.11 but can't cut loose with both my hands on crimpers. My finger strength and core strength is so far behind my technique, power, and endurance that I'm looking to feel solid on tiny holds. I understand the discomfort of climbing and learning to cope with that, but if I can't do the move, I don't even get the chance to try to tame that discomfort. Anyways, thanks for the advice, I'll keep dead hanging and am just going to have to suffer for a while climbing crimpy routes.
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rjtrials
Aug 30, 2008, 4:26 AM
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thegrassr00ts wrote: Thanks man. By comfortable I mean I can climb mid 5.11 but can't cut loose with both my hands on crimpers. My finger strength and core strength is so far behind my technique, power, and endurance that I'm looking to feel solid on tiny holds. I understand the discomfort of climbing and learning to cope with that, but if I can't do the move, I don't even get the chance to try to tame that discomfort. Anyways, thanks for the advice, I'll keep dead hanging and am just going to have to suffer for a while climbing crimpy routes.
I dont know where you are climbing exactly, but in my experience, there are no 'tiny holds' on 5.11 and on very few 5.12 routes.
Just believe that you CAN hold onto and move off of the hold. Try again and again and again. Come back in two days and then try some more. Put 10 solid burns on a route (all the way to the top is all that counts) and THEN see if the holds are still too small...
BTW, i recently put three days into a route and still lack several moves on the route! You need to invest TIME into getting used to pulling on smaller holds. Training wont give you that confidence, just getting on routes will.
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jt512
Aug 30, 2008, 5:00 AM
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rjtrials wrote: I dont know where you are climbing exactly, but in my experience, there are no 'tiny holds' on 5.11 and on very few 5.12 routes.
That's a good point. I've been shocked, that when viewed objectively, how big some holds that feel tiny really are. Go on tension above the hold that feels tiny to you, and look at it from above. In my experience, seeing how big a hold that feels tiny really is can give you a lot of added confidence.
Jay
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fyj434
Aug 30, 2008, 12:28 PM
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Not so sure about the dead hangs, but hay what ever floats your boat. I know for me it is throwing( pottery that is) It gives you some amazing finger strength. It works all the tendons in your hands...and finger...but if you cant get a hold of a pottery wheal than just keep hang boarding....really builds contact strength.
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organic
Sep 2, 2008, 1:47 AM
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rjtrials wrote: thegrassr00ts wrote: Thanks man. By comfortable I mean I can climb mid 5.11 but can't cut loose with both my hands on crimpers. My finger strength and core strength is so far behind my technique, power, and endurance that I'm looking to feel solid on tiny holds. I understand the discomfort of climbing and learning to cope with that, but if I can't do the move, I don't even get the chance to try to tame that discomfort. Anyways, thanks for the advice, I'll keep dead hanging and am just going to have to suffer for a while climbing crimpy routes. I dont know where you are climbing exactly, but in my experience, there are no 'tiny holds' on 5.11 and on very few 5.12 routes. Just believe that you CAN hold onto and move off of the hold. Try again and again and again. Come back in two days and then try some more. Put 10 solid burns on a route (all the way to the top is all that counts) and THEN see if the holds are still too small... BTW, i recently put three days into a route and still lack several moves on the route! You need to invest TIME into getting used to pulling on smaller holds. Training wont give you that confidence, just getting on routes will.
I don't know what this guy is smoking but I have been on plenty of 5.12 routes and they can have pretty small holds, very tiny holds in fact especially in the 5.12c/d range.
Back to the OP: Finger strength can be quite elusive because to me it has so many subtlties. But basically if you have a hang board do dead hangs(8-10 seconds) or pull-ups(5ish) on different grips and add weight if it is easy. For you core do some mutha fuckin' sit-ups and when those are easy do sit-ups with weights and when those are easy use a weight machine. Basic training is not that difficult remember just add resistance if it feels easy.
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granite_grrl
Sep 2, 2008, 7:06 PM
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thegrassr00ts wrote: Thanks man. By comfortable I mean I can climb mid 5.11 but can't cut loose with both my hands on crimpers.
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jto
Sep 3, 2008, 6:56 PM
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Donīt try feeling comfortable on routes but train yourself being more comfortable feeling very uncomfortable  That means understanding that lactate is a very good friend and not an enemy.
5.12īs have veeeery tiny holds if the route is a slab or even vertical. If tiny means edges smaller than 1/3 of an inch.
So train what you need. If crimping is the game, thatīs it. Itīs best done on boulders where you can build more strength and then little by little build up good PE too. If climbing itself is somehow impossible Iīd do system board sets and hangboarding.
On hangboards Iīd do more reps than straight sets. That means donīt just hang 10 secs or so and thatīs it. Do reps of 5-15 secs and 5-15 of them in one set. Pauses between reps can be just enough to put some chalk on after 5 or so reps so 5 secs is ok.
Set amount can be quite high but it really depends on how many days per week you train. On a basic phase try to add volume more than just the amount of weight. So: more sets, reps, hang time...
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flipnfall
Sep 3, 2008, 8:49 PM
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This may sound really simplistic, but I think an easy obtainable workout routine would be to go to your local climbing gym and just traverse using medium to smaller holds that you feel most solid on and keep doing this until you can't hang on anymore. Do this for an hour or two every other day and I can PROMISE you that you will quickly increase your finger strength on a wide range of hold types.
Best of luck!
GT
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thegrassr00ts
Sep 3, 2008, 9:04 PM
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Thanks guys,
In response to granitgrl, I don't know how hard you climb, or where you typically climb at, but I boulder a lot and my main cliff is Rumney, and sometimes, you have to cut your feet loose. I always put a heavy emphasis on technique in my style of climbing, but what I've realized is that sometimes this is just a sport of hanging on. As for the traversing suggestion, I do that anyway, and that seems to more work my forearms and increase my pump endurance. It seems the pyramid suggestion is working the best, hanging on many different holds for set amounts of time increasing in increments throughout the set. Also, simply using the hangboard like a big hold, moving from one to the other.
What it really comes down is my one arm hanging ability. I have come to find as I push into higher grades that many of the sections I get stuck on I find to be very passable, when I can keep all four points on the rock. The problem is clipping. When I am on an overhung route, with marginal feet and have to hang from either arm on a crimper to make the clip, I struggle. I get very nervous about pulling out all the slack for the clip and then losing it. I guess I should have specified my question, it's a combination of how to increase finger strength and the one arm dead hanging ability. They kind of intertwine, but if anyone has any suggestions that would be great. Also, if anyone is a Rumney climber, this weekend I'll be there working Apocalypse later (5.11 c/d), so come check it out, always good to meet good climbing folk. Thanks for the suggestions, keep them coming!
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docky
Sep 14, 2008, 1:16 PM
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LOL It is funny how you can ask some people some thing and get a hole lot of bla bla bla  . Any how I climb around V8 to v10 bouldering and around 13c sport. I can say that finger strength and your core are the end all at high lvl climbing. Technique will get you only so far fact. The best thing you can do that is my bread and butter for training. Is on a wall at the crag or gym or the best a system wall. One arm to lock of pulls in different positions with your feet on full crimp. Start with your arm straight pull into a 90 degree lock of and hold for 2 seconds . Also use two finger open half crimp straight arm hangs alternate all your fingers. BUT JUST HANG with feet on at your comfort LvL for 5 seconds . The angle you can change for More Hand finger strength or body and hand finger strength. 20 to 30 degrees for pure finger strength on small holds. 30 to 90 for body and hand strength. The KEY is get a great warm up. Then when you perform the pulls and hangs squeeze your grip as hard as you can to the limit of what you feel you can handle. THERE IS A FINE LINE DO NOT PASS IT. you may add weight when you can do 5 pulls in in a row on each arm of your positions of choice. 5 to 10 sets each max . My wife and I do this to times a week and both have gained 3 grades in 1 1/2 years from training like this . Last but not least ICE after every training session for ten mins in a bucket of ice water. 5 mins in the ice 2 mins out then 5 mins in. That is what has worked for me so good luck and train hard
(This post was edited by docky on Sep 14, 2008, 2:09 PM)
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VIclimber303
Aug 3, 2010, 6:55 AM
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jto wrote: That means understanding that lactate is a very good friend and not an enemy.
I dunno bout you, but my nipples don't leak while I climb...
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harpreet
Aug 30, 2010, 10:59 AM
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Thanks for it. I call it the "Yoga Teacher Training Camp" for Home Study Yoga Teacher Certification. I've been inspired to create a full collection of home study courses for popular and important Yoga Teacher specialities, such as Restorative Yoga Teacher, Kid's Yoga Teacher, Chair Yoga Teacher, Pre-natal & Post-natal Yoga Teacher, Yoga Teacher Trainer (level II), Vinyasa Yoga, Meditation Teacher, Yoga Anatomy.For detail information click here [url=http://www.sivanandabahamas.org/yoga-teacher-training.htm]Yoga Teacher Training
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sidepull
Aug 30, 2010, 1:10 PM
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You should add 4x4's, VIR, and CIR to your workouts (near the beginning, after warmups and working technique). If you're not sure what I'm talking about find and read the Self Coached Climber. Good luck!
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Bag11s
Aug 30, 2010, 6:29 PM
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At Rumney, in general, the developers have pretty carefully located most clips at the best stances the route has to offer. Lets say that for you a particular route is too difficult to on-sight. While you are working the route, an important part of your reconnaissance has to be learning the most efficient way to get to the hard clip, the best way to exploit the hold and stance (whether there is a knee bar, heel hook, right hand clip on left side, or what-have-you), and the conservation of some contact strength in the hand you will be hanging from on the way up to the clip. At first touch some of the more strenuous clips seem ridiculous, but after sussing them out a bit, the mystery wears off and you come to be able to do it. Stance exploitation and finding the right body position to clip from is really key. Learning the routes overall rhythm is important. Holding on with minimal sufficient force is important. Rumney routes are mainly comprised of relatively short problems separated by good rests where you can take stock before launching on the next bit, Apocalypse Later being a good example. Concentrating on making focused, efficient and relaxed clips as per the subtleties of each route's particular needs will help to mitigate some of your problems with executing these climbs.
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