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rrrADAM
Oct 20, 2001, 9:09 PM
Post #1 of 26
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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
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The Routes feature of RC.com can be a great tool for anyone searching for beta before planning a trip. You can PM people who have climbed that route before for exact beta like crux, pro, and other info not found in a guide book. But the information in the Dbase does not just appear. Every Region, Area, Section, and Route was entered by a user of this site. Unfortunately, only a small fraction of the users bother to enter beta on climbs they have done. I encourage everyone to visit the Routes feature of RC.com, and enter just 2 Routes that you have climbed into the DBase each time you visit. It only takes a few minutes, and the beta can be used by all. And if you're trying to build you ranking, there's no easier way of getting a lot of points than entering Routes into the DBase. It is important that the beta be entered correctly, and in an organized manner. For examples of States that are well organized visit: California, Colorado, Utah, or Washington. If your state is disorganized, I encourage you to contact the MGR of your state. If your state does not have a MGR, then I encourage you to be the MGR for your state. We have a great opportunity with this feature, but it must be utilized to meet it's expectations. It's up to all of us to make this happen. Think of all the beta that we have amoungst ourselves combined, we need to use that to our advantage. If you have any questions feel free to contact any State MGR including myself. Thanx, rrrADAM California MGR
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hardcoredana
Oct 20, 2001, 9:39 PM
Post #2 of 26
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Registered: Oct 11, 2001
Posts: 297
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Okay. I have two issues to address on this topic. First of all, I think that some people may be entering information on climbs that they have never personally climbed before in order to rack up points (you do get points for submitting info in the routes section, right?) I think these people (I'm not mentioning names) pick up guide books and just enter info from the guide book. This doesn't seem right to me. The point of the route database is to give someone information that they can't find in a guide book, isn't it? Information like, "Hey this is a great climb." or "Don't bother, this climb sucks." If you have never climbed the route, much less visited the state where the route is, how can you supply any first hand beta? Second of all, is it right/legal to publish info on climbs when there is a guidebook published already? The authors of any guide book work really hard to put that information together. Is it right to steal their information and make it free to the public? Could this website be sued for copyright infringement, or something like that? I may be showing my ignorance on the topic, but I am very curious about this.
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kriso9tails
Oct 20, 2001, 10:39 PM
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Registered: Jul 1, 2001
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Who cares about the points?!? Fill out what you can. Even if you can't get specific info, at least its possible to find out the general grades at a crag as well as the type of rock, or maybe even just basic directions on how to find the route. It gives people a starting point for planning trips. The information can be filled in later, and the person who edits gets points too (don't hold me to that though). Also, if you're going to give route beta in your description, please warn the reader (who may want to do the climb without beta) with something like *beta* or whatever. It doesn't matter what you add, just do what you can. Many of the popular routes are already listed, so you may not have much, but a little is better than nothing.
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rrrADAM
Oct 21, 2001, 6:46 AM
Post #4 of 26
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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
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People get points added to their ranking for entering any Route into the DBase, I've added several Routes I've never climbed before, but only if I new the beta. I think that people should add any Route they know the info on to build up the DBase. Routes can later be edited/updated by any user if they have more inforation to add. There is a seperate feature called "ascents", this is filled out by clicking "add new" next to 'climbed by' on the Route beta itself. The Routes I have climbed I click to add to my 'ascents', the Routes I have not climbed but entered beta for, I do not claim an 'ascent'. The best way to get beta is clicking the 'ascents' list for a climb. It will tell you if anyone has climbed it, their comments if any, so you can PM them for additional beta. For an example of this, pruse the Big Wall Routes of El Capitan in Yosemite, California. 'passthepitonspete' has entered very detailed descriptions of the climbs, as well as his feelings about the climbs in the comments section of the 'ascents' for these Routes. It's also very entertaining, he paints a great picture with words. As far as legalities, the information in guide books is public knowledge. Guide books are updated and use information from previous guide books regardless of author or publisher, I believe. If people want to increase their user rating by typing in beta from a guide book, more power to them, I encourage it. We need this beta online. Think of the possibilities, this feature is still a work in progress, but some day we/anybody can pick a Route online, get detailed beta from climbers who have climbed it, print out the beta & topo, and climb the Route. Think of climbing a Grade III multi-pitch route, instead of taking the book up with you to follow a meandering route, you can take a few pages in your pocket. rrrADAM
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metoliusmunchkin
Oct 21, 2001, 3:58 PM
Post #5 of 26
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Registered: Apr 7, 2001
Posts: 1410
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I know of many routes in my area, though there's only one problem. None of them have a grade, nor a name. If I should happen to feel the need to post this up, how should I do so? I estimate that the best solution to this is to not post the routes at all, but there really cool! OH well.
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rrrADAM
Oct 21, 2001, 5:00 PM
Post #6 of 26
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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
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jess, make it correct, look at Ca, Co, UT, or Wa to get an idea of what it should look like. You can edit any Area, and click Region to move. Any more ???, just ask. rrrADAM
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russman
Oct 21, 2001, 5:21 PM
Post #7 of 26
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Registered: Nov 2, 2000
Posts: 2848
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Jess If you are willing to put in the time to rearagen and update the info on the page. I will help you move things around and get things organized with your help. Drop me a PM and we can talk more about it. The Russman
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rrrADAM
Oct 21, 2001, 10:08 PM
Post #8 of 26
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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
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You're good men jess & russ.
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metoliusmunchkin
Oct 21, 2001, 10:10 PM
Post #9 of 26
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Registered: Apr 7, 2001
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I second that, for you guys to take the time from your lives, and do some 'work' on this site, is really good! Cudos!
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rrrADAM
Oct 21, 2001, 10:23 PM
Post #10 of 26
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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
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Jess, I took a look, I can help you with this as well. Just let me know how I can help. rrrADAM
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hardcoredana
Oct 22, 2001, 5:04 AM
Post #11 of 26
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Registered: Oct 11, 2001
Posts: 297
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rrradam, Thank you for the explanation on the difference between "Routes" and "Ascents". I will feel more comfortable adding information on climbs that I haven't necessarily climbed before. What exactly do you mean by "beta"? In the description section, are we supposed to give beta that could possibly ruin someone's onsight? Or are we just supposed to give enough information so that climbers can identify the climb? For example, if the crux is after the 4th draw, should we put that in the description section? Or should we just say that the climb begins to the left of the crack and the right of the arete? kriso9tails: I'll admit I care somewhat about the ratings. But I suspect that there are others out there who care too--they just hide it better than I do.
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rrrADAM
Oct 22, 2001, 5:50 AM
Post #12 of 26
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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
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Just enough to get them to the climb, and maybe state the type of climb. i.e. Crack, roof, crimpers, friction... I mean beta as in information. rrrADAM
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kriso9tails
Oct 22, 2001, 12:58 PM
Post #13 of 26
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Registered: Jul 1, 2001
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Hey, I didn't mean to say that the ratings aren't fun, but they aren't really important. I was bumped from 5th highest rated user to 12th, which was great simply because it means that there have been a ton of posts, photo's, and routes added. I'd give up all of my points to see the entire routes section filled with almost every route ever climbed. If you're going to give detailed beta or any crux information just give a warning. *beta ahead* *This will ruin the onsight if you read this* whatever. Please do this! I often don't want beta until I've blown the onsight attempt.
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rrrADAM
Oct 24, 2001, 5:53 AM
Post #14 of 26
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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
Posts: 17553
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kriso9tails, I agree with you, I'd even give everyone some of my magic gear if they filled the DBase with all climbs done to date worldwide. At this point, anyone can go and pruse routes in France and Thailand, instead of just reading about them in magazines. rrrADAM
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jeffe
Oct 24, 2001, 1:56 PM
Post #15 of 26
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Registered: Aug 24, 2001
Posts: 125
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Can the program be modified to include our favorite ice climbs?
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rck_climber
Oct 24, 2001, 8:28 PM
Post #16 of 26
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Registered: Aug 28, 2001
Posts: 1010
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I'm pretty sure Mark is working on a solution to that, but I'm sure he'll chime in w/ a reply here shortly. Know it was brought up, not sure what the resolution on it was. Will check it out w/ the techie admins. Mick
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rrrADAM
Oct 24, 2001, 8:31 PM
Post #17 of 26
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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
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All they'd have to do is add Ice and Mixed to the type of climb menu, and add the ratings in the ratings menu. rrrADAM [ This Message was edited by: rrradam on 2001-10-24 13:34 ]
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rck_climber
Oct 24, 2001, 8:50 PM
Post #18 of 26
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Registered: Aug 28, 2001
Posts: 1010
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Oh yeah, as far as adding routes, I've added one or two and try to put as much information as possible to locate the route, then give a little about the climb, but try not to ruin the on-sight by giving too much beta. Then on the few ascents I've put up, I detail the climb explicitly, that way people have the option of looking at the route in the section for very little beta, OR if they want/need more beta, they can check out one of my (very) few ascents. Mick
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rrrADAM
Oct 26, 2001, 7:31 AM
Post #19 of 26
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OK, I just checked, and as of 10-24-01 there are 5,821 Routes total in the RC.com data base. There are 100's of thousands of Routes worldwide, there are over 3,000 established climbs in Joshua Tree National Park alone just to mention one place. We really need to start entering some Routes into this DBase to make it worthwhile. It's really easy, just try, and add one: http://www.rockclimbing.com/routes/ rrrADAM
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krillen
Oct 26, 2001, 2:46 PM
Post #20 of 26
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Registered: Jul 19, 2001
Posts: 4769
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The onlly reason I haven't posted any routes/beta is because they are 1.) already up or 2.) I want to sit down wite the guide book and compare MY experience on it, to the book's description. On eth subject of Copyright. They only way RC.com could be prosecuted is if some one posted word for word stuff from a book and then refused to take it down after it was pointed out.
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rrrADAM
Oct 28, 2001, 9:31 PM
Post #21 of 26
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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
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We don't need to copy it word for word. Just the route name, grade, and protection would suffice.
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rrrADAM
Nov 11, 2001, 5:41 AM
Post #22 of 26
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Registered: Dec 19, 1999
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OK, we're doing pretty good here now... Approximately 15 people are entering routes into the DBase continually. But each and every one of us who has climbed outside posseses information that they could share with the other users of this site. Don't Be A Tightwad !!! GIVE IT UP !!! rrrADAM (The Motivational Speaker)
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talons05
Dec 17, 2001, 7:02 PM
Post #23 of 26
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Registered: Aug 23, 2001
Posts: 1435
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AMEN! And the peasants rejoice... AW [ This Message was edited by: talons05 on 2001-12-17 11:03 ]
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missedyno
Dec 18, 2001, 1:29 AM
Post #24 of 26
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Registered: Nov 21, 2001
Posts: 4465
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i'm cursed with never remembering the names of climbs i do....
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saltspringer
Dec 18, 2001, 7:41 AM
Post #25 of 26
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Registered: Oct 12, 2001
Posts: 274
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Personally, I don't feel comfortable submitting a route unless I've had some sort of direct experience with it (ie: tried it or developed it) and know that I can give accurate info from personal experience, otherwise, where are you getting the beta & how reliable is it? I don't think it's very cool to go through a guide book for information to add to the DB...the author's put in a lot of work to get these books published & it's up to the members of RC.com to put in a comparable amount of work collectively... Don't steal other's work just because you think it's for a good cause; respect their contribution & make an effort to contribute to this site from your own experience. Mike
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