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Pro athletes or CLIMBERS?
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beerandblood
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Oct 20, 2001, 9:04 PM
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Pro athletes or CLIMBERS?
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Oct 20, 2001, 9:13 PM
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Good point beer, the late '60s, the '70s, and even the early '80s is the era of half of the climbers 'sponsored', and they were not pros.

They were the the pioneers of climbing, and were not in it for money, recognition, or the sponsers. They climbed truely for themselves. There was no such word as 'spray' back then, because they didn't do it for their egos. They were very humble.

I think the title should be changed as well. Some of the people in this catagory might even be offended.


rrrADAM



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Oct 20, 2001, 9:57 PM
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There are a lot of kids who climb at my gym that think I'm great. Can I be in there also?


metoliusmunchkin


Oct 20, 2001, 10:02 PM
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Straight forward as usual beerandblood; stating good opinions as always! I am sorry to inform you that it is not the 'non-pro' climbers that we hear about unfortunately. Those climbers that you have mentioned in your post, I have never heard of I'm sorry to say. These really great climbers that aren't pro, really deserve more recognition. I agree completely with what you say.
Climb On.


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Oct 20, 2001, 10:56 PM
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John Gill is the father of bouldering. He was putting up sick problems in the late '60's that still ruin modern day climbers. i.e. The Thimble in Custer State Park, S.D.. He is the strongest boulderer ever, even surpassing Chris Sharma easily. Don't get me wrong, I wish I could climb like Chris, he's the strongest climber of our era, but you should know climbing history.


rrrADAM
p.s. Piano, you belong there as much as someone else who is already there.


metoliusmunchkin


Oct 21, 2001, 9:46 AM
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rrrAdam: Unfortunately, I have never heard of John Gill, and I would greatly appreciate it, if you could suggest anything to me, to accquire any sorts of information concerning him. He seems very interesting, as I am sure many of the climbing greats of the 60's and 70's and 80's were.
Thanks a bundle!
Pat.


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Oct 21, 2001, 9:57 AM
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Check the "Pro" Athletes, beerandblood is hook'n up John Gill.


metoliusmunchkin


Oct 21, 2001, 10:31 AM
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Alright, thanks, I'll check that out right now...


passthepitonspete


Oct 21, 2001, 12:39 PM
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Oh, rrradam, I have to disagree!

Royal Robbins "humble"? To quote him (or at least paraphrase him) from the famous story of the first ascent of Tis-sa-ack:

"Why, it's probably the most craftsmanlike bolt ladder of that many bolts in the world!"

Do you really think most of the great climbers of the past were humble? I don't think so, any more than the great climbers of today are humble. True, they didn't need to talk big to garner sponsorship, but that sure as heck doesn't mean they were humble.

I've never thought of people like Reinhold Messner as being humble! Well, at least when they were in their climbing peak. Even the vain tend to humble a bit with age.

Now maybe I'm wrong, but I've never thought of the leading climbers of yesteryear as being any more humble than those of today, sponsorship or not. I think in a sport like ours, big egos need to go with the big ascents. It takes balls to risk your life to do something hard (sport climbers may not understand this last statement!) but I think if you're pushing the limits in the mountains, chances are you might have a bit of an ego to go with it. Nothin' wrong with that, is there?

That being said, I've hung out in Yosemite with several climbing greats - Jim Bridwell, Leo Houlding, Thomas Humar.

Jim is the humblest guy you'd ever want to meet. I think it's because he has nothing at all left to prove.

Ditto for Thomas - Climbing Mag considered him the world's best all round climber, and man, has that boy done some ultra sick stuff! And he's the nicest guy you'll ever meet. Prior to his solo ascent of Reticent Wall, he even bought one of Chongo's big wall books.

As for Leo, he seems like a regular guy too. Maybe when you reach the level of these guys you don't need an ego any more.

I think it's the lesser good climbers who think they're more bitchin' than they really are who have the biggest egos. I was sure one of them twenty years ago when I started climbing just cuz I could lead 5.10s and not too many others could! Big deal - who cares? Fact of the matter was that there were plenty of climbers who were far better than me, and I wasn't anywhere as bitchin' as I thought I was!

Funny thing about climbing, though - it has a way of humbling you when you start thinking you're bitchin'er than you really are. Like when you hop on some route you think you can send, and it spanks your ass but good!

That oughta take the wind out of the egotists' sails, eh? Sure works on me.

Cheers, Pete

Also, do you REALLY think John Gill was stronger than the great boulderers of our age like Chris Sharma? That seems highly unlikely to me. True, Gill was lightyears ahead of the world when it came to bouldering talent, and put up problems that are still desperate even by today's standards, but I don't see how that could make him stronger than Sharma or Nicole or the others.

Stronger than his contemporaries, sure.

But what was the hardest problem Gill ever put up? V what? It can't be anywhere near the V double digits of today, can it?

I seem to remember that back in the 70's, Midnight Lightning was considered the World's Hardest Boulder Problem, and what is it now? Even with the missing hold I think it's "only" V8. Isn't this route harder than anything Gill ever did?

Maybe this should be posted in the bouldering forum, and we can ask the aficionados of that sport. I don't know much about bouldering or its history, that's for sure.

Just some thoughts for what they're worth.

Cheers, Pete

[ This Message was edited by: passthepitonspete on 2001-10-21 12:44 ]


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Oct 21, 2001, 2:47 PM
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The title of the post refers to changing the name of the Pro Athletes feature. It's a suggestion, therefore it's posted in the Suggestions... Forum.

As for Chris to John, maybe I was not correct in comparing their abilities. But 95% of boulderers don't even know who he is, and he is the father of bouldering. People said he was crazy, that bouldering in it of itself was not climbing, and that nothing would ever come of it. He paved the way, and for that, he deserves mass props.


rrrADAM


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