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jakk


Sep 23, 2008, 10:08 PM
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emergency pitons for alpine rock
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I'm looking for recommendations for a small set of pins to be taken on moderate alpine rock routes - not really for regular climbing pro, just for rap anchors when the s*** hits the fan and clean pro won't do. Want to keep it small and light, maybe 3 or 4, as versatile as possible.

Since durability is not an issue, is it worth it to go for titanium?

I've never placed a pin in my life, so any recommendations would be appreciated.

Jakk


jackscoldsweat


Sep 23, 2008, 11:05 PM
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Re: [jakk] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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how do you propose to place them? do you bring a hammer? an ice tool? if it's a moderate alpine rock route, you wouldn't need to hammer anything. right?
perhaps a rock could work in a pinch?

in any case, good luck finding titanium pins. that is unless they have resurfaced recently. and if so, please contact me.

in the alpine realm:: angles work miracles especially 1/2. dont forget a long dong, a couple bugs., and a few knifes.



JCS


jakk


Sep 23, 2008, 11:22 PM
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Re: [jackscoldsweat] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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Well, I'm looking for advice on that too, but I had indeed thought of either taking a hammer instead of an adze for any glacier approach, or of improvising with a rock if need be.

Haven't tried them, but Liberty Mountain at least still lists the Ushba titanium pins:

http://www.libertymountain.com/shop/product.asp?p=1003&pg=1&c=341&o=0&s=5


jackscoldsweat


Sep 23, 2008, 11:57 PM
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Re: [jakk] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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well, for what it's worth, i have only ever dragged pins along on high alpine climbs, (ie mixed snow,ice,rock). for moderate alpine rock climbs, i leave the pins at home. hammers are too heavy. and should the sheet hit the fan, then i'm using down climbing, slings, nuts, and cams to get the hell outta there.

liberty mtn. has been advertising titatnium pins since their aquisition. they should do us all a favor and delete the page. as they can't deliver the product. perhaps they could have many moons ago, but those days have long since past. then again, anything is possible.

JCS


mattb1921


Sep 24, 2008, 8:08 AM
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jackscoldsweat wrote:
well, for what it's worth, i have only ever dragged pins along on high alpine climbs, (ie mixed snow,ice,rock). for moderate alpine rock climbs, i leave the pins at home. hammers are too heavy. and should the sheet hit the fan, then i'm using down climbing, slings, nuts, and cams to get the hell outta there.
JCS

I agree with this. I only have pins with me when I have the old ice tools in hand. I like knifeblades for where I climb because I can get them into almost anything. If sh*t hits the fan while on just rock I have no problem leaving gear. In the past I have always been able to get away with leaving nuts.


sungam


Sep 24, 2008, 8:41 AM
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Re: [mattb1921] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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Alot of people carry pegs for scottish winter climbing, since you can crack one into a frozen crack if the fan is spraying shit everyhere.
Although the only time I've witnessed this the peg ripped, and the dude just about hung himself on my leader's lines, but that's another story.


GeneralZon


Sep 24, 2008, 9:02 AM
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Re: [jakk] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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With the cost of the titanium pins, you might as well buy some nuts. $25/pin vs. $8-12/nut.


brianinslc


Sep 24, 2008, 9:40 AM
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Re: [jakk] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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jakk wrote:
I'm looking for recommendations for a small set of pins to be taken on moderate alpine rock routes - not really for regular climbing pro, just for rap anchors when the s*** hits the fan and clean pro won't do. Want to keep it small and light, maybe 3 or 4, as versatile as possible.

Since durability is not an issue, is it worth it to go for titanium?

I've never placed a pin in my life, so any recommendations would be appreciated.

Where would you anticipate using them? Might make difference in pin selection.

In limestone areas, I'd think a couple soft iron pins would be good.

For "just in case", I usually carry a couple of knifeblades and a couple of shallow angles. Can usually beat in a nut in just about any other size crack (and carry a few for that purpose).

Good luck finding functional Ti pins. They're pretty scarce. The USHBA ti pins that Liberty most recently carried aren't a great configuration for what I'd call all around use. They're a straight channel type pin. My bet is a shallow angle at about the same weight would work in the same placement and actually have more holding power (springy).

If you can find them, the old Latok pins were great. They're a knifeblade configuration but a bit thicker than a thin Chouinard/BD knifeblade. I've got a couple and they seem to handle abuse reasonably well. They kinda act like a soft iron pin (fairly malleable).

I climb some alpine or remote rock with a light hammer. Grivel Thor. Seems adequate and has a nut tool built into the handle as well. Decent pick for cleaning cracks.

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC


shimanilami


Sep 24, 2008, 9:51 AM
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Re: [jakk] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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Pins seem like overkill for a "moderate alpine rock route", IMO. And heavy. And useless probably.

Nonetheless, I'd take a few LA's, KB's and baby angles. And if you have to bail and leave them all on a route somewhere, please PM the location so I can retrieve them for you. Titanium would be bonus. You can leave your hammer or ice tool as well.


jeremy11


Sep 24, 2008, 10:11 AM
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hammer your nut tool in with a rock


anthonymason


Sep 24, 2008, 10:13 AM
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I typically will, have 2 (1/2) KB, 1 pecker, 1 LA, and 2 rurps.
Having this on my rack requires me to bring my third tool, so before heading up I will decide whether not to bring them.
Also handy to have are 2-3 grade 5 machine 3/4inch to 1-1/2" bolts and 2 copper heads/ with a hammer.
I have used these for some hairy bailoffs. To use the bolts, find a small seam/pocket/ solid flake.
Next find 2 nuts off your rack preferbly the ones with the smallest wires/ choke them/ and bash them.
When it comes time to rappel, do it smoothly, do not bounce down on the rap.Once on rappel don't pass up a bomber placement.
If I find a better placement lower down the route, I feel its worth the extra time to reset the rappel, since rappin' off mank, always excedes my fun factor.
Anthony


jackscoldsweat


Sep 24, 2008, 1:20 PM
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Re: [anthonymason] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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a few more words when bailing off a route.

it's far better to make short rappels when lowering over unknown terrain. you never know what's below. take what you can get.

JCS


sspssp


Sep 24, 2008, 1:33 PM
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Re: [jackscoldsweat] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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I used to carry a few pins on alpine routes. But I never used them and no longer carry them. Don't pass up good anchors (particularly something you can sling).

If you are really worried about it (and assuming you are climbing good enough rock like Sierra granite) I would carry a drill over pins. You have to carry the hammer in either case. Get a few 1/4" rivets. The weight won't be that much more than carrying a range of pins and it would give you options if you end up rapping down into a blank face/slab. (But really, I doubt it is worth it).


gimble


Oct 27, 2010, 5:10 PM
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Re: [sspssp] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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How many people actually carry pins on routes?

I sometimes do, though they hardly get used. I've had to leave a few behind a couple of times, which justified the extra weight overall.


kiwiprincess


Oct 27, 2010, 7:47 PM
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I have used pins alot on Mixed routes where I have my axes.

On a first ascent you would take some and a hammer, but if it's been done before you can use the ones the last party left to rap off. On rock i find rock bollards, and wires much more common to bail off in situations where my skill is lacking.

On the other hand I have seen my leader bash a nut into thin cracks with a hex, on something a bit lacking in good gear. I was on a sh#t belay so hoped like hell he didn't fall. We would have loved a small piton then.


USnavy


Oct 27, 2010, 8:53 PM
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Re: [jackscoldsweat] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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jackscoldsweat wrote:

in any case, good luck finding titanium pins. that is unless they have resurfaced recently. and if so, please contact me.

JCS
These guys still around?:

http://www.ushba.com/...html#alpine%20pitons


bearbreeder


Oct 29, 2010, 4:25 AM
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http://nwalpine.com/hardware


16$ titanium pins .... no idea how good they are


Lazlo


Oct 29, 2010, 5:20 AM
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Re: [bearbreeder] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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bearbreeder wrote:
http://nwalpine.com/hardware


16$ titanium pins .... no idea how good they are

I love their disclaimer!
In reply to:
DISCLAIMER – PLEASE READ!
The titanium climbing equipment (“Equipment”) sold by NW Alpine Gear, LLC (“NW Alpine”) is sourced from the Russian Federation. This Equipment is of an unknown quality. None of this Equipment has been tested or approved by anyone under any approved international quality control testing protocols, including by NW Alpine. NW Alpine does not warrant this Equipment for any use of any kind whatsoever and the use of this Equipment for climbing is done solely and completely at the users own risk. NW Alpine disclaims all liability for the use of this Equipment by anyone, whether the original purchaser or subsequent users to the fullest extent permitted by law.


sungam


Oct 29, 2010, 6:15 AM
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Re: [Lazlo] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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Their hoody... it looks familiar...


majid_sabet


Oct 29, 2010, 8:03 AM
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Re: [jakk] emergency pitons for alpine rock [In reply to]
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I bought a box of military pitons (75 pc) from ebay for $40 so for less than $0.50 a piece I think they are worth it. you can still find them on ebay .

This dude is selling 10 for $20 but I used to sell 20 for $20 myself to offload some of the extra pitons. Do some search and you could find them cheap.

http://cgi.ebay.com/...;hash=item255adbc767


(This post was edited by majid_sabet on Oct 29, 2010, 8:04 AM)


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