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Sun and time affecting strenght of ropes
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bor


Sep 29, 2008, 1:33 AM
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Sun and time affecting strenght of ropes
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Hi, does anybody know how are weather and time affecting strenghth of the rope?

I`m basejumper and me and a couple of friends have just found a jumpable wall that requires 50m rapell to reach exit point. So the question is for how long will rope left there remain reliable? How can we inspect the rope prior to rappel - any tricks?

thanks, Bor


(This post was edited by bor on Sep 29, 2008, 1:35 AM)


irregularpanda


Sep 29, 2008, 2:47 AM
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Re: [bor] Sun and time affecting strenght of ropes [In reply to]
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bor wrote:
How can we inspect the rope prior to rappel - any tricks?

thanks, Bor

I'm sure somebody else will chime in with a more thorough answer than me, so I'll give you 2 answers. The long and the short.

The short. Sun kills ropes and webbing. It kills them dangerously fast. If you are considering rappelling a rope that is already there, YOU"RE GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!

The longer. Is there a fixed rope already there? Do you have a rope to rappel with to access your project? (Assuming you know how to rappell safely) If you bring your own rope, how long would it be before you can retrieve it? If the answer to this last question is more than 2 days, I'd be surprised. In fact, if it's a fun Basejump, and you fix a rope, I imagine you'd probably do the jump at east 3 times in a day.
If you can't for some reason retrieve the rope AFTER jumping, can you strp it to yourself and bring it down as you go, or perhaps toss the rope to the bottom of the cliff before jumping (I doubt that rope would be easy to retrieve) ?

Bottom line, Sun damages ropes very quickly, but in my opinion, a day or two in the sun should be fine.


sungam


Sep 29, 2008, 6:28 AM
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Re: [bor] Sun and time affecting strenght of ropes [In reply to]
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Hey Bor, the length of time a rope will last definitely depends on it's thickness, the altitude, and how much direct sunlight it gets.
Does your whole crew jump? Don't you have any riggers or camera bitches about?
If so, you could have them climb back up the rope using ascenders, then pack the rope into a rope-bag and stash it behind the tree or something.
Otherwise you'll be wanting to replace it once in a while.
The alternative would be using 100m of rope and jumping with it- this is not recommended.
I suggest 11mm dry treated static line. Smile


bor


Sep 29, 2008, 6:44 AM
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Jumping with that much of a rope is not an option. Usualy there are no nonjumpers with us so the rope must stay there.

Rope installed is Millet triaxial 9.8mm (dynamic). The altitude is 2200 m ASL. The rope will be covered with snow for about 8 months per year and the rest there is not really much sun since wall is facing north.

I know that the rope will need replacing once in a while. Just dont know what is once in a while. 1 month, 1 season, more?

Why do you recomend static rope? Its still possible that rope fails even if it is checked and looks ok?

thanks, bor


jaablink


Sep 29, 2008, 6:54 AM
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Re: [bor] Sun and time affecting strenght of ropes [In reply to]
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read

http://books.google.com/books?id=MChpwK837t8C&pg=PA16&dq=the+effects+uv+rays+climbing+rope%3F&ei=MdzgSOiPN4mUzAT774yrBg&sig=ACfU3U2DLG_
9MBUFhEpm3MjfIKNDatr0bw

and

http://www.sterlingrope.com/supportingdocs/techmanual.pdf


vegastradguy


Sep 29, 2008, 6:55 AM
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Re: [bor] Sun and time affecting strenght of ropes [In reply to]
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bor wrote:
Jumping with that much of a rope is not an option. Usualy there are no nonjumpers with us so the rope must stay there.

Rope installed is Millet triaxial 9.8mm (dynamic). The altitude is 2200 m ASL. The rope will be covered with snow for about 8 months per year and the rest there is not really much sun since wall is facing north.

I know that the rope will need replacing once in a while. Just dont know what is once in a while. 1 month, 1 season, more?

Why do you recomend static rope? Its still possible that rope fails even if it is checked and looks ok?

thanks, bor

if the wall faces north, my best guess is that you'll have to replace it once a year after the snow melts. if nothing else because rockfall and other debris will probably damage the line during the winter.

you should pull it up and inspect it fairly often, though- especially if you dont have ascenders.


markc


Sep 29, 2008, 6:57 AM
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Re: [jaablink] Sun and time affecting strenght of ropes [In reply to]
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Activated links.


(This post was edited by markc on Sep 29, 2008, 6:58 AM)


sungam


Sep 29, 2008, 7:02 AM
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I didn't check Jaablink's links but his are usually good. Try taking a gander.

I would suggest static rope, as it tends to be slightly more weather resistant. Make sure it had a good dry coating.

Will you be jumping through the winter? If so remember two things - icy ropes are slippery and won't work with auto-lockers like gri-gris very well, and the freeze/thaw cycle of the snow on the rope could be bad news. If not I would strongly suggest sending a little bitch to go get the rope after your last jump, or bring a cam man for the last jump.

What are you using for an anchor?


jaablink


Sep 29, 2008, 7:12 AM
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http://www.sterlingrope.com/rescue_products3.asp?pgname=HTP™%20Static

this is what you want for long term...i would email the co. for the test info book ......

There is a great need in technical rope work of all kinds to have a strong, durable and very low stretch rope. Nylon is a great fiber for static ropes due to its multipurpose use. But, in certain applications, a lower stretch, higher strength rope is more efficient. That is why Sterling developed the HTP series of all polyester ropes.

Sterling's HTP™ all-polyester ropes offer significant advantages over nylon static ropes in many applications. With less than 1% stretch per 300-pound load, the need to pre-tension is less, reducing the loads on high lines and tracklines as well as the time to set up. In addition, the HTP has superior strength and handling due to the unique and finely tuned sheath and twisted core construction. Sterling has worked hard to continually improve the handling of this rope and still give you maximum strength with long-term durability. Even after extensive use, the HTP, like our nylon SuperStatic, remains supple and easy to use.

For tower erection and maintenance, transmission line rescue, and work at height uses, the HTP offers low electrical conductivity, and greater resistance from UV and certain chemicals. As polyester is a naturally dry fiber, the HTP resists moisture and maintenance its high strength characteristics even in wet conditions. The HTP is compatible with devices like the 540 belay device, Tuf Tug, Tractel, MIO and Petzl rope grabs making this the right rope for a variety of technical rope applications.

The HTP has been extensively field-tested in rescue and safety trainings. Years of use in actual rescues, in work access and tower situations is proven testimony to the high performance of this rope. Put the Sterling HTP rope in your rescue or work line up. It's the right rope for the tough and challenging rescue, work, industrial and tower jobs.

Available in diameters 9mm to 16mm, HTP ropes are great for single and multi-person use, highlines, extrication, military, industrial rope access, tower rescue and other high strength, low stretch applications.


sungam


Sep 29, 2008, 7:41 AM
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Re: [jaablink] Sun and time affecting strenght of ropes [In reply to]
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Good find.


sterlingjim


Sep 29, 2008, 8:00 AM
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Re: [bor] Sun and time affecting strenght of ropes [In reply to]
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A polyester rope is your best choice. 9mm to 11mm. Replace every spring.
Remove the old one by chopping it into lengths small enough for each jumper to carry a manageable bit with them on their descent. If each jumper can bring 2m with them on the way down the rope will be gone in 25 jumps.

The rope should probably be inspected each day of use for abrasion damage caused by wind action.


This thread should be in 'gear heads'.


knudenoggin


Sep 29, 2008, 9:59 AM
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Re: [sterlingjim] Sun and time affecting strength of ropes [In reply to]
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sterlingjim wrote:
A polyester rope is your best choice. 9mm to 11mm. Replace every spring.

Why 9..11mm? The needs for this particular--one use only--rope suggest
something robust vs. UV (and maybe abrasion) damage, and nothing for
vogue "lite"ness of being. (I'm thinking of what a nice way to continue
using an old fat gym rope!) Low-elongation ropes targeted at the SAR
community swell to half-inch if not also 5/8", even.

And why replace annually? --is there really no visible guide to UV wear?
(And with a sheathed rope, doesn't the sheath bear the UV degradation
until it disintegrates, with significant residual strength in the core?!)

[excerpt from Handbook of fibre rope technology ]
"The strnegth of ropes with jackets and load bearing inner cores is not
affected except that the jacket can see reduced abrasion resistance."

Re the potential for wind-instigated abrasion damage, working continually
while you're away, you should carefully consider your surface and try
to anchor the rope somehow to preclude that. --bottom of rope under
a stone of 30#, say, so that the rope can be pulled free on later use?!

*kN*


sterlingjim


Sep 29, 2008, 10:47 AM
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Re: [knudenoggin] Sun and time affecting strength of ropes [In reply to]
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knudenoggin wrote:
sterlingjim wrote:
A polyester rope is your best choice. 9mm to 11mm. Replace every spring.

Why 9..11mm? The needs for this particular--one use only--rope suggest


*kN*

General suggestion based on too little information.
BTW, polyester ropes are less prone to swelling.


sspssp


Sep 29, 2008, 5:04 PM
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Re: [bor] Sun and time affecting strenght of ropes [In reply to]
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bor wrote:
Hi, does anybody know how are weather and time affecting strenghth of the rope?

Can anybody tell you for sure how your rope will be affected? Probably not. However, I've seen lots of ropes in Yosemite that have been left in place for a long time (fixed ropes on El Cap and others). Many of these ropes get in very ratty shape before they are replaced, yet climbers are still jugging and/or rapping on them (and not killing themselves as far as I know). I don't know how often they get replaced, but I really doubt it is annually. They tend to stay up there until the core is showing in many places (as far as I can tell). Although some of the ropes are static, most are old dynamic ropes that somebody no longer wanted to lead on (and so left as a jug/rap rope).

Replacing the rope frequently is no doubt the smartest/safest thing to do. However, fixed ropes seem pretty durable even when they look pretty bad. I was rapping a fixed rope (it looked old and felt "soft", although I have seen worse) on the East Ledges descent (of El Cap) and had the sheath of the rope come completely loose from the core of the rope. By the time I came to a stop, there were several feet of rope above me that had no sheath (just the individual strands of the core). The sheath was just a big wad of nylon below my rap device. At the time it was a little spooky. However, after telling my story a few times, I found out from other veteran Big Wall climbers that that scenerio is neither that unheard of nor that gripping of a story. As long as no sharp edges are involved, climbing ropes are pretty tough.


(This post was edited by sspssp on Sep 29, 2008, 5:07 PM)


jorgegonzalez


Sep 29, 2008, 9:37 PM
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"I would strongly suggest sending a little bitch to go get the rope after your last jump, or bring a cam man for the last jump."

Hey Sungam, how would you like to be my "little bitch?"


sungam


Sep 29, 2008, 9:48 PM
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jorgegonzalez wrote:
"I would strongly suggest sending a little bitch to go get the rope after your last jump, or bring a cam man for the last jump."

Hey Sungam, how would you like to be my "little bitch?"
IF you were able to teach me to base jump, I'd be your little bitch.
Simple as that.


jorgegonzalez


Sep 30, 2008, 12:30 PM
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It is simple, why don't you just go jump off a cliff?

Oh, I recommend you wear a parachute.


sungam


Sep 30, 2008, 12:49 PM
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jorgegonzalez wrote:
It is simple, why don't you just go jump off a cliff?

Oh, I recommend you wear a parachute.
I wish it was that simple.


gunkiemike


Sep 30, 2008, 5:31 PM
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Re: [bor] Sun and time affecting strenght of ropes [In reply to]
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Buy a retired lead rope from anyone you trust. Should only cost 20 dollars/Euros. Use it for a season or less and don't worry about it in the future.


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