Forums: Climbing Disciplines: Big Wall and Aid Climbing:
Backup for ascending fixed lines
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for Big Wall and Aid Climbing

Premier Sponsor:

 


addicted2alpine


Oct 20, 2008, 3:09 PM
Post #1 of 19 (3481 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 13, 2006
Posts: 48

Backup for ascending fixed lines
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

So what do you guys use to back yourself up when jugging lines that are fixed at the top and bottom? And were assuming your using running man style here, not the froggy way

I know some of you are going to say use a grigri but what if the lines are so tight that you would be pulling slack through the grigri every 5-10ft? - That would get annoying and be very slow

you cant tie into the end of the rope and tieing in short would only allow you to go maybe 10ft before you had to retie, so what do you do?


glahhg


Oct 20, 2008, 3:54 PM
Post #2 of 19 (3453 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 7, 2003
Posts: 69

Re: [addicted2alpine] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

If it's straight vertical and I'm not passing gear or doing anything weird, nothing. Probably put biners through the ascenders.

One thing you could do is put a prussik above your top ascender. The ascender pushes it up.


socalclimber


Oct 20, 2008, 3:57 PM
Post #3 of 19 (3450 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 2433

Re: [addicted2alpine] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

addicted2alpine wrote:
So what do you guys use to back yourself up when jugging lines that are fixed at the top and bottom? And were assuming your using running man style here, not the froggy way

I know some of you are going to say use a grigri but what if the lines are so tight that you would be pulling slack through the grigri every 5-10ft? - That would get annoying and be very slow

you cant tie into the end of the rope and tieing in short would only allow you to go maybe 10ft before you had to retie, so what do you do?

Grigri, if the lines are so tight you can't use the grigri, then someone fucked up. Fixed lines does not mean CABLES. The prussik above works ok, but it you clear an edge or clean a piece of gear, or pass a knot, you've got some issues to deal with.


(This post was edited by socalclimber on Oct 20, 2008, 4:04 PM)


Partner xtrmecat


Oct 20, 2008, 4:03 PM
Post #4 of 19 (3440 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 1, 2004
Posts: 548

Re: [addicted2alpine] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

  I usually put a biner through the top of each ascender to prevent it from being able to be torqued off the rope. I also put a locker on my belay loop so I cannot conceivably fall beyond the station below me. First pitch this is not possible. I also am very diligent about not getting in a hurry, getting sloppy with my strokes, and never bounce the line especially when I know it runs over an edge(either sharp or rounded) Some have wrapped a prussik above the top ascender and let the top jug push it up, however I have never done this.
Kind of unnerving the first time or ten above several hundred feet but after about 20 or 30 feet off the deck the results are going to be the same anyhow.
I have only jugged my own lines and there is never enough slack to allow a tie in. The second gets to tie in though, as he can bring up the bottom of the cord with him. The bad part is he also has all the ropes weight (we've fixed three 10.5 MM cords before) when he tops the lines as the first guy up never waits for the second at a station(prevent a cluster) and never on a section of line with your partner.
Bob


scottb


Oct 20, 2008, 4:15 PM
Post #5 of 19 (3429 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 3, 2006
Posts: 144

Re: [addicted2alpine] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Seems like a mini-trax or a handle-less ascender attached to your belay loop would work in that situation. Personally though, I wouldn't bother. I just put lockers trough the top of the ascenders and tie a backup knot on a locker through my belay loop if I have to pass a knot or an anchor.


ozoneclimber


Oct 20, 2008, 6:39 PM
Post #6 of 19 (3385 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 30, 2005
Posts: 250

Re: [addicted2alpine] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

If you go to OnRope1.com you will see a shitload of ascending systems that you could use...


ptlong


Oct 20, 2008, 6:45 PM
Post #7 of 19 (3382 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 4, 2007
Posts: 418

Re: [addicted2alpine] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I've seen a grigri used in this circumstance and it worked okay. But a small ascender (like the mini traxion) would surely feed just fine.

I've never backed up in that situation since the odds of dying are due more to failure of anchor or rope damage than from popping off both jugs. But I've never had to ascend a line fixed top and bottom that also traversed greatly. In that case I'd rig a grigri or at the very least a prusik.


(This post was edited by ptlong on Oct 20, 2008, 6:47 PM)


marlinmje


Oct 22, 2008, 9:34 AM
Post #8 of 19 (3301 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 8

Re: [addicted2alpine] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I use a grigri and the guys that I know that have done big walls use the grigri also. Just place overhand or fig 8 knots on the brake side of the rope as a back up.


altelis


Oct 22, 2008, 4:16 PM
Post #9 of 19 (3258 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168

Re: [marlinmje] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

marlinmje wrote:
I use a grigri and the guys that I know that have done big walls use the grigri also. Just place overhand or fig 8 knots on the brake side of the rope as a back up.

not to be an ass- but WTF?!!?!?!

backing up the back up? isn't that a bit, um, overkill? if you are tying knots in the rope to back up the grigri (which in turn is backing up the jugs), why not skip the pain of pulling rope through the grigri and just freaking tie the knots?

or DON"T tie the knots but use the grigri......i know redundancy and all that but at a certain point you'll never leave the ground!


kennoyce


Oct 22, 2008, 4:49 PM
Post #10 of 19 (3242 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Mar 6, 2001
Posts: 1316

Re: [addicted2alpine] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

No one has yet mentioned a tibloc. I will just clip a tibloc onto my belay loop and call it good. I know that if I were to need the tibloc, it might shred some of the sheath of the rope, but I won't die, and I have never had a single ascender come off the rope ever, so I think the chances of both popping is next to nothing.


colatownkid


Oct 22, 2008, 5:34 PM
Post #11 of 19 (3226 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 512

Re: [altelis] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

altelis wrote:
marlinmje wrote:
I use a grigri and the guys that I know that have done big walls use the grigri also. Just place overhand or fig 8 knots on the brake side of the rope as a back up.

not to be an ass- but WTF?!!?!?!

backing up the back up? isn't that a bit, um, overkill? if you are tying knots in the rope to back up the grigri (which in turn is backing up the jugs), why not skip the pain of pulling rope through the grigri and just freaking tie the knots?

or DON"T tie the knots but use the grigri......i know redundancy and all that but at a certain point you'll never leave the ground!

not sure (didn't read that carefully, though in hindsight i probably should have), but i'm guessing marlin means that they're using the grigri as an ascender, in which case it might be worthy of backup.


ptlong


Oct 22, 2008, 6:29 PM
Post #12 of 19 (3214 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 4, 2007
Posts: 418

Re: [colatownkid] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

colatownkid wrote:
altelis wrote:
marlinmje wrote:
I use a grigri and the guys that I know that have done big walls use the grigri also. Just place overhand or fig 8 knots on the brake side of the rope as a back up.

not to be an ass- but WTF?!!?!?!

backing up the back up? isn't that a bit, um, overkill? if you are tying knots in the rope to back up the grigri (which in turn is backing up the jugs), why not skip the pain of pulling rope through the grigri and just freaking tie the knots?

or DON"T tie the knots but use the grigri......i know redundancy and all that but at a certain point you'll never leave the ground!

not sure (didn't read that carefully, though in hindsight i probably should have), but i'm guessing marlin means that they're using the grigri as an ascender, in which case it might be worthy of backup.

No worries, marlin didn't read that carefully either.


colatownkid


Oct 22, 2008, 6:34 PM
Post #13 of 19 (3208 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 27, 2007
Posts: 512

Re: [ptlong] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

ptlong wrote:
colatownkid wrote:
altelis wrote:
marlinmje wrote:
I use a grigri and the guys that I know that have done big walls use the grigri also. Just place overhand or fig 8 knots on the brake side of the rope as a back up.

not to be an ass- but WTF?!!?!?!

backing up the back up? isn't that a bit, um, overkill? if you are tying knots in the rope to back up the grigri (which in turn is backing up the jugs), why not skip the pain of pulling rope through the grigri and just freaking tie the knots?

or DON"T tie the knots but use the grigri......i know redundancy and all that but at a certain point you'll never leave the ground!

not sure (didn't read that carefully, though in hindsight i probably should have), but i'm guessing marlin means that they're using the grigri as an ascender, in which case it might be worthy of backup.

No worries, marlin didn't read that carefully either.

indeed he did not; otherwise he would have known the thread was about back-ups. knowing this, i didn't worry about not reading.


basilisk


Oct 22, 2008, 8:39 PM
Post #14 of 19 (3172 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 1, 2005
Posts: 636

Re: [colatownkid] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I'm no big-wall master, and I've never even tried this, but what about a cinch? It's pretty simple to slip onto even a taught line, and it'll more or less slide on its own


skiclimb


Oct 22, 2008, 8:47 PM
Post #15 of 19 (3168 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 1936

Re: [addicted2alpine] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

To be quite honest

I tend to rely on my skill and awareness to back me up while ascending fixed lines.

I don't think I have ever done anything else as a backup. knots tie-ins or whatever...


majid_sabet


Oct 22, 2008, 9:18 PM
Post #16 of 19 (3157 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 12, 2002
Posts: 8363

Re: [skiclimb] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

skiclimb wrote:
To be quite honest

I tend to rely on my skill and awareness to back me up while ascending fixed lines.

I don't think I have ever done anything else as a backup. knots tie-ins or whatever...

http://www.expeditioncave.com/srt/petzl/failure/


skiclimb


Oct 22, 2008, 9:48 PM
Post #17 of 19 (3142 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 1936

Re: [majid_sabet] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Majid I am very aware of how petzl ascenders can slip or fail.. there are at least 2 I can think of that most people probably havn't run into....(beware the neutrino) I have spent it seems years ascending ropes with Petzls...

They are in a way a paintbruh in the hands of a master when I use them...

Nothing trumps skill experience and judgement in climbing when it comes to safety...

What is safe for me may not be safe for others...

and there are those who can do more than I..many others... and do so safely...


(This post was edited by skiclimb on Oct 22, 2008, 9:49 PM)


jmvc


Oct 23, 2008, 8:55 AM
Post #18 of 19 (3090 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Sep 10, 2007
Posts: 647

Re: [majid_sabet] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

majid_sabet wrote:
skiclimb wrote:
To be quite honest

I tend to rely on my skill and awareness to back me up while ascending fixed lines.

I don't think I have ever done anything else as a backup. knots tie-ins or whatever...

http://www.expeditioncave.com/srt/petzl/failure/

Wouldn't that be called "user error"?

I mean it's like complaining that a gri-gri didn't catch when the cam was blocked..


dingus


Oct 23, 2008, 9:00 AM
Post #19 of 19 (3086 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17392

Re: [addicted2alpine] Backup for ascending fixed lines [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

addicted2alpine wrote:
So what do you guys use to back yourself up when jugging lines that are fixed at the top and bottom? And were assuming your using running man style here, not the froggy way

I know some of you are going to say use a grigri but what if the lines are so tight that you would be pulling slack through the grigri every 5-10ft? - That would get annoying and be very slow

you cant tie into the end of the rope and tieing in short would only allow you to go maybe 10ft before you had to retie, so what do you do?

I use TWO ascenders. Each one serves as the backup to its mate. A nice simple solution.

DMT


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Big Wall and Aid Climbing

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?
$44.96 (10% off)
$11.66 (10% off)
$6.26 (10% off)
$205.16 (10% off)



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook