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marebear


Oct 23, 2008, 12:33 PM
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Accepting new girls to the sport... for better or worse.
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So, I live in a new town and have been climbing in a gym here for the past couple months trying to meet people to climb with outside. I came from a group in climbers back in Idaho that was about 80% guys, 20% girls, and the girls climbed hard. I had a couple close female friends at home that climbed harder than me and we had a few great trips outside away from the guys.

In this new gym, I've spent most evenings there in the bouldering room as the only girl among 15 guys. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind climbing with all guys a bit, but it's nice to see another female face around at times. Last night while I was there, it seemed like it must have been coupon night at the sorority house. Two different groups of 3 girls, all wearing tights, shiny new shoes, and skimpy tank tops showed up and spent the majority of their time standing in clusters below boulder problems talking about their hair and the rest of the time giggling and just generally being in the way. (Yes, I am a bitch, and I know it)

My question is: how welcoming should we be to these girls? Half of me wants to help clue them in and the other half wants to kick their skanky little asses. I think everyone should be welcomed to our sport, to an extent, but when it seems that their intent is to become the next generation of 5.6 climbing crag whores, it's tough to be kind. I've made incorrect first impressions about girls before, but those girls were usually dating one of my 5.13 climbing male friends.

Accept them or boot them... thoughts?


Partner happiegrrrl


Oct 23, 2008, 1:03 PM
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Umm....if you're the only girl except for these ones, and there is 15 guys....it ain't going to matter what YOU do. The guys are going to flock for them. And it might end up you who gets booted!

If they are brand new, who knows what will become of them. Some will try gym climbing once or a few times and never come back. Some will like gym climbing but hate being outside. Some will be average climbers and some will be good. Maybe even one or two might become friends with you.


carabiner96


Oct 23, 2008, 1:26 PM
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My first impression would be....well, see the slut thread. But lately I've been pleasantly surprised by how different people are when they're not with a group of friends or if you start them talking on something other than hair or boys.

I know this isn't like me, but give them a chance. Just say hey, will you trade spots? You never know, each person you haven't met yet might be your best friend in the future.


marebear


Oct 23, 2008, 1:33 PM
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Re: [carabiner96] Accepting new girls to the sport... for better or worse. [In reply to]
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Yeah, I looked for slut threads before posting this one. I'm trying to take a more positive point of view about this topic these days, mostly because finding female friends is tougher than finding male friends, especially among climbers. But the skanky ones are just such easy targets!


carabiner96


Oct 23, 2008, 1:43 PM
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look for the "um, hello....SLUT" thread here. Or if you just click to sort threads by # of posts...it's the biggest thread in the ladie's forum. Cool


Partner macherry


Oct 23, 2008, 1:51 PM
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it all depends, they could be a one time only climber. i would see if they start returning to the gym, it shows that they are there to climb.

i would also clue into attitude, are they having fun, being friendly...if you say hi, are they snooty?


marebear


Oct 23, 2008, 2:26 PM
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LOVE the "Um... hello, slut." thread, thanks for pointing it out. You pretty much said there what I wanted to say here. I am only 3 pages in, but still reading.


clee03m


Oct 23, 2008, 2:30 PM
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Re: [macherry] Accepting new girls to the sport... for better or worse. [In reply to]
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Accept them. You just never know. I was introduced to rock climbing by a girl who is gorgeous, dresses super cute, looks incredibly fresh even after a day of climbing, and frequents plastic surgeons/dermatologists for botox injections. She also runs triathlons, hikes, fishes, kayaks, snowboards, etc. Looks can be deceiving. You may be on your way to a beautiful climbing partnership with some kick ass girl climbers.


Maddhatter


Oct 23, 2008, 11:05 PM
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marebear wrote:
So, I live in a new town and have been climbing in a gym here for the past couple months trying to meet people to climb with outside. I came from a group in climbers back in Idaho that was about 80% guys, 20% girls, and the girls climbed hard. I had a couple close female friends at home that climbed harder than me and we had a few great trips outside away from the guys.

In this new gym, I've spent most evenings there in the bouldering room as the only girl among 15 guys. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind climbing with all guys a bit, but it's nice to see another female face around at times. Last night while I was there, it seemed like it must have been coupon night at the sorority house. Two different groups of 3 girls, all wearing tights, shiny new shoes, and skimpy tank tops showed up and spent the majority of their time standing in clusters below boulder problems talking about their hair and the rest of the time giggling and just generally being in the way. (Yes, I am a bitch, and I know it)

My question is: how welcoming should we be to these girls? Half of me wants to help clue them in and the other half wants to kick their skanky little asses. I think everyone should be welcomed to our sport, to an extent, but when it seems that their intent is to become the next generation of 5.6 climbing crag whores, it's tough to be kind. I've made incorrect first impressions about girls before, but those girls were usually dating one of my 5.13 climbing male friends.

Accept them or boot them... thoughts?




WAIT!!!!! What the fuck is wrong with 5.6 climbing crag whores? Not every one gives a fuck how hard you climb. Some people climb just to have fun and don't want climbing to be the main thing in there lives. Just say'n. I hate how people try to make other people out as less then them selves just because climbing is something they do just for fun. Granted chicks that crank hard are sexy. If only hard core climbers went to the gyms we would have no gyms. You should thank them for paying there money to stand around and talk. There helping keep your gym open so you have a place to train.Wink


wonderwoman


Oct 24, 2008, 6:33 AM
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My philosophy has always been to be nice to everyone until they give me a reason not to be nice. If I make eye contact with you at the gym, I smile. I don't care if you're falling off a 5.5, wearing make up, or heel hooking in stilettos and fish net tights. We have enough men critiquing us for our looks, outfits, and climbing abilities every time we go to the gym or outside. Support your sisters. It makes for a better climbing environment overall.


wonderwoman


Oct 24, 2008, 6:40 AM
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marebear wrote:
Yeah, I looked for slut threads before posting this one.

I just have to quote this sentence, because if you look at it by itself it's really, really funny! Smile


lvpyne


Oct 24, 2008, 7:44 AM
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wonderwoman wrote:
We have enough men critiquing us for our looks, outfits, and climbing abilities every time we go to the gym or outside. Support your sisters. It makes for a better climbing environment overall.

Awesome and so true... Smile

One of the first times I climbed at Indian Creek, my friends and I were climbing next to this woman who was wearing pink lycra tights, had two bouncy blond ponytails, and a gold lamae chalkbag. I, of course, made the immediate judgmental remarks to my climbing partner about women like that underscoring how hard women work to be taken seriously when climbing, blah, blah, blah. After climbing next to her the entire day, however, I was singing a different tune, when this "girlie" climber cranked out 5.11 and 5.11, moved up to crank 5.12 after 5.12, and very nicely retrieved my gear off a route for me when I was too spent to downlead it. I learned an important lesson that day about judging my climbing sisters based solely on a gold lamae chalkbag. Smile


wonderwoman


Oct 24, 2008, 7:56 AM
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lvpyne wrote:
I learned an important lesson that day about judging my climbing sisters based solely on a gold lamae chalkbag. Smile

I am extremely jealous of a gold lamae chalk bag! I used to have 'Tiffany' spelled out in glittery rhinestones glued to the back of my chalk bag, but it fell off! Unsure

I also made one for my husband that said 'Josh' in metal studs. I thought they were both pretty awesome!


acacongua


Oct 24, 2008, 10:20 AM
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marebear wrote:

My question is: how welcoming should we be to these girls? Half of me wants to help clue them in and the other half wants to kick their skanky little asses. I think everyone should be welcomed to our sport, to an extent, but when it seems that their intent is to become the next generation of 5.6 climbing crag whores, it's tough to be kind. I've made incorrect first impressions about girls before, but those girls were usually dating one of my 5.13 climbing male friends.

Accept them or boot them... thoughts?

Women dogging on other women. It's always fun but the truth of insecurity always prevails. Unless you're tick list is incomplete, it looks like you're very much a developing climber yourself. So am I.

You never know what these gals may end up contributing to the sport. Fact: Most of our volunteers/monetary contributors around the Red aren't strong climbers. Some are barely even climbers.


(This post was edited by acacongua on Oct 24, 2008, 10:23 AM)


Gmburns2000


Oct 24, 2008, 10:41 AM
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happiegrrrl wrote:
Umm....if you're the only girl except for these ones, and there is 15 guys....it ain't going to matter what YOU do. The guys are going to flock for them. And it might end up you who gets booted!

mmm...flocks of girrlllls...Angelic

On a more serious note, this can also be seen as not being such a gender issue. My ex used to hate (and I mean really hate) all new people at her company. For some reason people flock to her, and she wants to be left alone more than anyone I know, so she would always get annoyed with the newbies at work coming around to introduce themselves. It was as if she was sick and tired of going through her pre-made life story once again just to be friendly. Of course, when she'd come home and start complaining about having to be nice, I just brushed it off. I knew that she'd end up becoming best friends with them over time, because that's what normally happened; once she started seeing them for real people other than newbies with annoying questions she typically ended up liking them a lot.

Sounds to me like you've got to suck it up and see what these girls are really like. Who knows, maybe you'll end up being an inspiration to them and they'll stop talking about their hair and start climbing instead because of you.

Now, as for my ex, it's odd that she didn't hate me when we first met. Too bad I didn't see that coming. Crazy


marebear


Oct 24, 2008, 10:49 AM
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Oh, for sure this is all related to insecurity. I'm not denying that. There is always competition going on between females, ALWAYS. My BCF (Best climbing friend) Kaiya just onsighted her first 11a. I cheered for her louder than anyone, but of course I was a little jealous. I go into the gym to work on climbing, have fun, and improve myself FOR myself. I want to send 11a this spring, only to prove to myself that I can do it. Other people's motivations are totally up to them, but I am allowed to be annoyed. If shrieking, giggling and talking about your new Louis Vuitton bag is why they go to the climbing gym, so be it, just stay out of my way.

And, I totally agree that the monetary contribution to the sport provided by occasional climbers is what floats the industry. Same goes for the snow sports industry. The "average" skier gets to the mountain twice per year. Eighty percent of first time snow sports participants never participate again. I bet the stats are similar among climbers. If it was left up to the diehards, the ski resorts and climbing gyms would be out of business.

Besides behind-their-back shit talking (I said I'm not that nice), I will be friendly to these girls, however, I am not planning on friending them until they prove to me that they came to climb, whether that's 5.6 or 5.12. I'll either learn something from them or they'll learn something from me, and there will be peace on earth.


marebear


Oct 24, 2008, 10:52 AM
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Re: [Gmburns2000] Accepting new girls to the sport... for better or worse. [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Now, as for my ex, it's odd that she didn't hate me when we first met. Too bad I didn't see that coming. Crazy

Funny. I hated my ex when we first met, then grew to love him, now I love him with some hate mixed in. Ain't life grand?


wonderwoman


Oct 24, 2008, 10:55 AM
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How often have you seen them at the gym? If they are bothering you that much, maybe you should change your schedule. But I still don't understand how they are impacting your climbing goals or your ability to enjoy yourself climbing.


marebear


Oct 24, 2008, 10:56 AM
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In reply to:
it looks like you're very much a developing climber yourself. So am I.

Ha! "Developing"... I hope that I can continue developing beyond onsighting 12b. Nice work!! You are kicking some ass. Smile


marebear


Oct 24, 2008, 11:06 AM
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I guess I better call the therapist and schedule a session.

As far as changing my schedule, I'm guessing once enough of their nails break, they will be gone anyway.


wonderwoman


Oct 24, 2008, 11:09 AM
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Now you're making me wonder if they will want to accept you...


marebear


Oct 24, 2008, 11:21 AM
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I'm more charming in person than I am on the interweb. But I'm sure there is a reason why a majority of my friends are male, yes. You are right.


Partner macherry


Oct 24, 2008, 12:32 PM
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Maddhatter wrote:
marebear wrote:
So, I live in a new town and have been climbing in a gym here for the past couple months trying to meet people to climb with outside. I came from a group in climbers back in Idaho that was about 80% guys, 20% girls, and the girls climbed hard. I had a couple close female friends at home that climbed harder than me and we had a few great trips outside away from the guys.

In this new gym, I've spent most evenings there in the bouldering room as the only girl among 15 guys. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind climbing with all guys a bit, but it's nice to see another female face around at times. Last night while I was there, it seemed like it must have been coupon night at the sorority house. Two different groups of 3 girls, all wearing tights, shiny new shoes, and skimpy tank tops showed up and spent the majority of their time standing in clusters below boulder problems talking about their hair and the rest of the time giggling and just generally being in the way. (Yes, I am a bitch, and I know it)

My question is: how welcoming should we be to these girls? Half of me wants to help clue them in and the other half wants to kick their skanky little asses. I think everyone should be welcomed to our sport, to an extent, but when it seems that their intent is to become the next generation of 5.6 climbing crag whores, it's tough to be kind. I've made incorrect first impressions about girls before, but those girls were usually dating one of my 5.13 climbing male friends.

Accept them or boot them... thoughts?




WAIT!!!!! What the fuck is wrong with 5.6 climbing crag whores? Not every one gives a fuck how hard you climb. Some people climb just to have fun and don't want climbing to be the main thing in there lives. Just say'n. I hate how people try to make other people out as less then them selves just because climbing is something they do just for fun. Granted chicks that crank hard are sexy. If only hard core climbers went to the gyms we would have no gyms. You should thank them for paying there money to stand around and talk. There helping keep your gym open so you have a place to train.Wink

madhatter made some good points. when you start the whole how hard do you climb stuff, my opinion turns sour. i started climbing later in life and my most difficult lead has been, i think, 5.10. I'm more comfortable with lower numbers. i've met a lot of chicks at the crags and gym that have a holier than thou attitude because they climb harder and didn't want to associate with beginners or anyone who climbs. it's attitudes on both side really.

i used to be one of those chicks when it came to skiing or snowboarding. Now that i'm an instructor and have worked at several women's improvement ski camps, it's way more empowering to encourage other women to strive and excel.

these chicks may start out climbing because of the boyfriend or they may seem like fluff, but give them a chance. women have a hard enough time breaking into the male dominated sports arena


marebear


Oct 24, 2008, 12:59 PM
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Good points all around. I'll play nice.


lena_chita
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Oct 24, 2008, 1:00 PM
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wonderwoman wrote:
My philosophy has always been to be nice to everyone until they give me a reason not to be nice. If I make eye contact with you at the gym, I smile. I don't care if you're falling off a 5.5, wearing make up, or heel hooking in stilettos and fish net tights. We have enough men critiquing us for our looks, outfits, and climbing abilities every time we go to the gym or outside. Support your sisters. It makes for a better climbing environment overall.

Couldn't have said it better!

OP-- there is no need to go out of your way either supporting them, or giving them a cold shoulder. For now.

Chances are, most of those girls will never come back to the gym, and you won't see them ever again. One or two might be back, and might start coming regularly. It does not hurt (or take much effort) to be nice to just about anyone in a neutral sort of way... As you get to know them better, you will know how supportive you want to be of them, and you can modify your neutrality accordingly.

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