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a-e-jones


Oct 24, 2008, 10:59 PM
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breaking aid gear
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i've seen some posts on people pulltesting cams pitons slings and what not but has anyone done unrated aid gear?

i'm thinking

hooks
talons
fifis
copper bangers
aid only nuts
RURPS
etc
etc


chossmonkey


Oct 25, 2008, 7:35 AM
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a-e-jones wrote:
i've seen some posts on people pulltesting cams pitons slings and what not but has anyone done unrated aid gear?

i'm thinking

hooks
talons
fifis
copper bangers
aid only nuts
RURPS
etc
etc
Because they all break/fail at ridiculously low loads and are always assumed body weight only.


a-e-jones


Oct 25, 2008, 12:15 PM
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but how low

is there any chance falling on a skyhook will hold me? etc etc


altelis


Oct 25, 2008, 12:18 PM
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there are certainly stories of people falling on duct-taped hooks that held (though mostly all end up being bent after the fall)

and i don't mean to be a dick, but reading comprehension is key

you want to know exactly what forces a hook can hold? adatesmen offered to pull test it for you, you just need to provide him with the hook, etc.


basilisk


Oct 25, 2008, 12:47 PM
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Anecdotes seem to suggest they're stronger than suggested. I've heard plenty of stories about people falling on hooks and having them hold.In the aid rating rant video (do a search) they guy talks about falling on a rurp in sandstone and having it hold.

Aid-only nuts I'm a little more likely to believe they'll break as suggested. Seen more than enough of those broken


chossmonkey


Oct 25, 2008, 1:55 PM
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a-e-jones wrote:
but how low

is there any chance falling on a skyhook will hold me? etc etc
Yes there is a chance it could hold. There is also a chance it would straighten right out. Or rip the flake off.

Test all you want, it will still be a crapshoot. The problem with most dubious gear isn't just the strength of the piece but the small amount of rock it is in contact with that can also fail.


sungam


Oct 25, 2008, 2:21 PM
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basilisk wrote:
Anecdotes seem to suggest they're stronger than suggested. I've heard plenty of stories about people falling on hooks and having them hold.In the aid rating rant video (do a search) they guy talks about falling on a rurp in sandstone and having it hold.

Aid-only nuts I'm a little more likely to believe they'll break as suggested. Seen more than enough of those broken
I took 4 or 5 ~12 foot falls and one slightly bigger one onto a size one BD micro in a row. It's mangled but it held.
*longing sigh* that route is still waiting for the FA...


chossmonkey


Oct 25, 2008, 5:23 PM
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sungam wrote:
basilisk wrote:
Anecdotes seem to suggest they're stronger than suggested. I've heard plenty of stories about people falling on hooks and having them hold.In the aid rating rant video (do a search) they guy talks about falling on a rurp in sandstone and having it hold.

Aid-only nuts I'm a little more likely to believe they'll break as suggested. Seen more than enough of those broken
I took 4 or 5 ~12 foot falls and one slightly bigger one onto a size one BD micro in a row. It's mangled but it held.
*longing sigh* that route is still waiting for the FA...
Whoa dude!!!

You're core!!!






What size?

A #3 RP is actually pretty strong.


sungam


Oct 25, 2008, 6:25 PM
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chossmonkey wrote:
sungam wrote:
basilisk wrote:
Anecdotes seem to suggest they're stronger than suggested. I've heard plenty of stories about people falling on hooks and having them hold.In the aid rating rant video (do a search) they guy talks about falling on a rurp in sandstone and having it hold.

Aid-only nuts I'm a little more likely to believe they'll break as suggested. Seen more than enough of those broken
I took 4 or 5 ~12 foot falls and one slightly bigger one onto a size one BD micro in a row. It's mangled but it held.
*longing sigh* that route is still waiting for the FA...
Whoa dude!!!

You're core!!!






What size?

A #3 RP is actually pretty strong.
While I get the distinct feelings you're mocking me...
It was a size one BD wire (the nutz shapes not the RP shapes):


While the falls weren't all that spectacular I was tipping the scales at 225 at the time and not all that much rope was out. I'd be close to kicking my belayer if it popped.
Attachments: Photo23.jpg (63.8 KB)


chossmonkey


Oct 26, 2008, 5:40 AM
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sungam wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
sungam wrote:
basilisk wrote:
Anecdotes seem to suggest they're stronger than suggested. I've heard plenty of stories about people falling on hooks and having them hold.In the aid rating rant video (do a search) they guy talks about falling on a rurp in sandstone and having it hold.

Aid-only nuts I'm a little more likely to believe they'll break as suggested. Seen more than enough of those broken
I took 4 or 5 ~12 foot falls and one slightly bigger one onto a size one BD micro in a row. It's mangled but it held.
*longing sigh* that route is still waiting for the FA...
Whoa dude!!!

You're core!!!






What size?

A #3 RP is actually pretty strong.
While I get the distinct feelings you're mocking me...
It was a size one BD wire (the nutz shapes not the RP shapes):


While the falls weren't all that spectacular I was tipping the scales at 225 at the time and not all that much rope was out. I'd be close to kicking my belayer if it popped.
Mocking is a given.

Those little guys aren't that strong. 2kN maybe.


sungam


Oct 26, 2008, 6:24 AM
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It says 2 kN on it.


marde


Oct 26, 2008, 7:58 AM
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sungam wrote:
It says 2 kN on it.

That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that.
(And as well 0.13% are weaker).
http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.php


(This post was edited by marde on Oct 26, 2008, 7:58 AM)


sungam


Oct 26, 2008, 8:08 AM
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marde wrote:
sungam wrote:
It says 2 kN on it.

That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that.
(And as well 0.13% are weaker).
http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.php
Korekt.
Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with?


chossmonkey


Oct 26, 2008, 8:31 AM
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sungam wrote:
marde wrote:
sungam wrote:
It says 2 kN on it.

That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that.
(And as well 0.13% are weaker).
http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.php
Korekt.
Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with?
That shitty Petzl one that always gives the worst case scenario and assumes the leader always has a very deep pit to fall into when stuff does hold?

http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=14


sungam


Oct 26, 2008, 8:38 AM
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chossmonkey wrote:
sungam wrote:
marde wrote:
sungam wrote:
It says 2 kN on it.

That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that.
(And as well 0.13% are weaker).
http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.php
Korekt.
Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with?
That shitty Petzl one that always gives the worst case scenario and assumes the leader always has a very deep pit to fall into when stuff does hold?

http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=14
1M of rope slip?
Sweet!

Holy fuckin' shiznit!
My nut AND my cam both failed! Risk of injury to climber!!!11oneone1


chossmonkey


Oct 26, 2008, 8:43 AM
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sungam wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
sungam wrote:
marde wrote:
sungam wrote:
It says 2 kN on it.

That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that.
(And as well 0.13% are weaker).
http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.php
Korekt.
Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with?
That shitty Petzl one that always gives the worst case scenario and assumes the leader always has a very deep pit to fall into when stuff does hold?

http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=14
1M of rope slip?
Sweet!

Holy fuckin' shiznit!
My nut AND my cam both failed! Risk of injury to climber!!!11oneone1
One time I got a really marginal piece to hold on the simulator. The problem was that you would need to have a spool of rope to let that much slide. Not to mention be several pitches up or have a very deep hole for the climber to fall into.


chossmonkey


Oct 26, 2008, 8:44 AM
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Woooo!!!!!!11!


Successful hijack!!!!!!1!


sungam


Oct 26, 2008, 8:53 AM
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chossmonkey wrote:
sungam wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
sungam wrote:
marde wrote:
sungam wrote:
It says 2 kN on it.

That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that.
(And as well 0.13% are weaker).
http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.php
Korekt.
Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with?
That shitty Petzl one that always gives the worst case scenario and assumes the leader always has a very deep pit to fall into when stuff does hold?

http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=14
1M of rope slip?
Sweet!

Holy fuckin' shiznit!
My nut AND my cam both failed! Risk of injury to climber!!!11oneone1
One time I got a really marginal piece to hold on the simulator. The problem was that you would need to have a spool of rope to let that much slide. Not to mention be several pitches up or have a very deep hole for the climber to fall into.
Is there a more realistic one anywhere?


marde


Oct 26, 2008, 9:07 AM
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sungam wrote:
Is there a more realistic one anywhere?

I guess you already did that more realistic test


chossmonkey


Oct 26, 2008, 9:12 AM
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sungam wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
sungam wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
sungam wrote:
marde wrote:
sungam wrote:
It says 2 kN on it.

That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that.
(And as well 0.13% are weaker).
http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.php
Korekt.
Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with?
That shitty Petzl one that always gives the worst case scenario and assumes the leader always has a very deep pit to fall into when stuff does hold?

http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=14
1M of rope slip?
Sweet!

Holy fuckin' shiznit!
My nut AND my cam both failed! Risk of injury to climber!!!11oneone1
One time I got a really marginal piece to hold on the simulator. The problem was that you would need to have a spool of rope to let that much slide. Not to mention be several pitches up or have a very deep hole for the climber to fall into.
Is there a more realistic one anywhere?
Not that I know of.

So many variables anyway. If it holds on the Petzl simulator it will probably hold in real life no matter what.


sungam


Oct 26, 2008, 9:30 AM
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chossmonkey wrote:
sungam wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
sungam wrote:
chossmonkey wrote:
sungam wrote:
marde wrote:
sungam wrote:
It says 2 kN on it.

That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that.
(And as well 0.13% are weaker).
http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.php
Korekt.
Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with?
That shitty Petzl one that always gives the worst case scenario and assumes the leader always has a very deep pit to fall into when stuff does hold?

http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=14
1M of rope slip?
Sweet!

Holy fuckin' shiznit!
My nut AND my cam both failed! Risk of injury to climber!!!11oneone1
One time I got a really marginal piece to hold on the simulator. The problem was that you would need to have a spool of rope to let that much slide. Not to mention be several pitches up or have a very deep hole for the climber to fall into.
Is there a more realistic one anywhere?
Not that I know of.

So many variables anyway. If it holds on the Petzl simulator it will probably hold in real life no matter what.
True. Next time I'll sneak a newtonmeter onto that piece.


fatoomchk


Oct 26, 2008, 11:27 AM
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a-e-jones wrote:
fifis

I can't offer anything scientific, but here's an anecdote....

So one time I was on a classic aid route in Australia (Ozymandias direct, Mt. Buffalo). I was at the gledhill bivvy and I couldn't be arsed hauling the old fashioned way, so pulled through 8-10m of rope, tied it off to the anchor and jumped off the belay. Unfortunately my fifi got caught up in one of my daisies during the descent. End result was that the fifi opened up about 10mm. It didn't take long to haul the pig though....


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