|
a-e-jones
Oct 24, 2008, 10:59 PM
Post #1 of 22
(2046 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 4, 2008
Posts: 295
|
i've seen some posts on people pulltesting cams pitons slings and what not but has anyone done unrated aid gear?
i'm thinking
hooks
talons
fifis
copper bangers
aid only nuts
RURPS
etc
etc
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Oct 25, 2008, 7:35 AM
Post #2 of 22
(2008 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28411
|
a-e-jones wrote: i've seen some posts on people pulltesting cams pitons slings and what not but has anyone done unrated aid gear? i'm thinking hooks talons fifis copper bangers aid only nuts RURPS etc etc
|
|
|
|
|
a-e-jones
Oct 25, 2008, 12:15 PM
Post #3 of 22
(1965 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jul 4, 2008
Posts: 295
|
but how low
is there any chance falling on a skyhook will hold me? etc etc
|
|
|
|
|
altelis
Oct 25, 2008, 12:18 PM
Post #4 of 22
(1964 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 10, 2004
Posts: 2168
|
there are certainly stories of people falling on duct-taped hooks that held (though mostly all end up being bent after the fall)
and i don't mean to be a dick, but reading comprehension is key
you want to know exactly what forces a hook can hold? adatesmen offered to pull test it for you, you just need to provide him with the hook, etc.
|
|
|
|
|
basilisk
Oct 25, 2008, 12:47 PM
Post #5 of 22
(1944 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 1, 2005
Posts: 636
|
Anecdotes seem to suggest they're stronger than suggested. I've heard plenty of stories about people falling on hooks and having them hold.In the aid rating rant video (do a search) they guy talks about falling on a rurp in sandstone and having it hold.
Aid-only nuts I'm a little more likely to believe they'll break as suggested. Seen more than enough of those broken
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Oct 25, 2008, 1:55 PM
Post #6 of 22
(1921 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28411
|
a-e-jones wrote: but how low is there any chance falling on a skyhook will hold me? etc etc
Test all you want, it will still be a crapshoot. The problem with most dubious gear isn't just the strength of the piece but the small amount of rock it is in contact with that can also fail.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Oct 25, 2008, 2:21 PM
Post #7 of 22
(1912 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26438
|
basilisk wrote: Anecdotes seem to suggest they're stronger than suggested. I've heard plenty of stories about people falling on hooks and having them hold.In the aid rating rant video (do a search) they guy talks about falling on a rurp in sandstone and having it hold. Aid-only nuts I'm a little more likely to believe they'll break as suggested. Seen more than enough of those broken
*longing sigh* that route is still waiting for the FA...
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Oct 25, 2008, 5:23 PM
Post #8 of 22
(1876 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28411
|
sungam wrote: basilisk wrote: Anecdotes seem to suggest they're stronger than suggested. I've heard plenty of stories about people falling on hooks and having them hold.In the aid rating rant video (do a search) they guy talks about falling on a rurp in sandstone and having it hold. Aid-only nuts I'm a little more likely to believe they'll break as suggested. Seen more than enough of those broken I took 4 or 5 ~12 foot falls and one slightly bigger one onto a size one BD micro in a row. It's mangled but it held. *longing sigh* that route is still waiting for the FA...
You're core!!!
What size?
A #3 RP is actually pretty strong.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Oct 25, 2008, 6:25 PM
Post #9 of 22
(1854 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26438
|
chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: basilisk wrote: Anecdotes seem to suggest they're stronger than suggested. I've heard plenty of stories about people falling on hooks and having them hold.In the aid rating rant video (do a search) they guy talks about falling on a rurp in sandstone and having it hold. Aid-only nuts I'm a little more likely to believe they'll break as suggested. Seen more than enough of those broken I took 4 or 5 ~12 foot falls and one slightly bigger one onto a size one BD micro in a row. It's mangled but it held. *longing sigh* that route is still waiting for the FA... Whoa dude!!! You're core!!! What size? A #3 RP is actually pretty strong.
It was a size one BD wire (the nutz shapes not the RP shapes):
While the falls weren't all that spectacular I was tipping the scales at 225 at the time and not all that much rope was out. I'd be close to kicking my belayer if it popped.
|
|
Attachments:
|
Photo23.jpg
(63.8 KB)
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Oct 26, 2008, 5:40 AM
Post #10 of 22
(1818 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28411
|
sungam wrote: chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: basilisk wrote: Anecdotes seem to suggest they're stronger than suggested. I've heard plenty of stories about people falling on hooks and having them hold.In the aid rating rant video (do a search) they guy talks about falling on a rurp in sandstone and having it hold. Aid-only nuts I'm a little more likely to believe they'll break as suggested. Seen more than enough of those broken I took 4 or 5 ~12 foot falls and one slightly bigger one onto a size one BD micro in a row. It's mangled but it held. *longing sigh* that route is still waiting for the FA... Whoa dude!!! You're core!!! What size? A #3 RP is actually pretty strong. While I get the distinct feelings you're mocking me... It was a size one BD wire (the nutz shapes not the RP shapes): While the falls weren't all that spectacular I was tipping the scales at 225 at the time and not all that much rope was out. I'd be close to kicking my belayer if it popped.
Those little guys aren't that strong. 2kN maybe.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Oct 26, 2008, 6:24 AM
Post #11 of 22
(1810 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26438
|
It says 2 kN on it.
|
|
|
|
|
marde
Oct 26, 2008, 7:58 AM
Post #12 of 22
(1791 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 3, 2006
Posts: 169
|
sungam wrote: It says 2 kN on it.
That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that.
(And as well 0.13% are weaker).
http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.php
(This post was edited by marde on Oct 26, 2008, 7:58 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Oct 26, 2008, 8:08 AM
Post #13 of 22
(1784 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26438
|
marde wrote: sungam wrote: It says 2 kN on it. That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that. (And as well 0.13% are weaker). http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.php
Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with?
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Oct 26, 2008, 8:31 AM
Post #14 of 22
(1776 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28411
|
sungam wrote: marde wrote: sungam wrote: It says 2 kN on it. That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that. (And as well 0.13% are weaker). http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.phpKorekt. Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with?
http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=14
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Oct 26, 2008, 8:38 AM
Post #15 of 22
(1772 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26438
|
chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: marde wrote: sungam wrote: It says 2 kN on it. That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that. (And as well 0.13% are weaker). http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.phpKorekt. Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with? That shitty Petzl one that always gives the worst case scenario and assumes the leader always has a very deep pit to fall into when stuff does hold? http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=14
Sweet!
Holy fuckin' shiznit!
My nut AND my cam both failed! Risk of injury to climber!!!11oneone1
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Oct 26, 2008, 8:43 AM
Post #16 of 22
(1769 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28411
|
sungam wrote: chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: marde wrote: sungam wrote: It says 2 kN on it. That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that. (And as well 0.13% are weaker). http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.phpKorekt. Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with? That shitty Petzl one that always gives the worst case scenario and assumes the leader always has a very deep pit to fall into when stuff does hold? http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=141M of rope slip? Sweet! Holy fuckin' shiznit! My nut AND my cam both failed! Risk of injury to climber!!!11oneone1
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Oct 26, 2008, 8:44 AM
Post #17 of 22
(1766 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28411
|
Woooo!!!!!!11!
Successful hijack!!!!!!1!
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Oct 26, 2008, 8:53 AM
Post #18 of 22
(1756 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26438
|
chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: marde wrote: sungam wrote: It says 2 kN on it. That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that. (And as well 0.13% are weaker). http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.phpKorekt. Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with? That shitty Petzl one that always gives the worst case scenario and assumes the leader always has a very deep pit to fall into when stuff does hold? http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=141M of rope slip? Sweet! Holy fuckin' shiznit! My nut AND my cam both failed! Risk of injury to climber!!!11oneone1 One time I got a really marginal piece to hold on the simulator. The problem was that you would need to have a spool of rope to let that much slide. Not to mention be several pitches up or have a very deep hole for the climber to fall into.
|
|
|
|
|
marde
Oct 26, 2008, 9:07 AM
Post #19 of 22
(1749 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 3, 2006
Posts: 169
|
sungam wrote: Is there a more realistic one anywhere?
I guess you already did that more realistic test
|
|
|
|
|
chossmonkey
Oct 26, 2008, 9:12 AM
Post #20 of 22
(1744 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 1, 2003
Posts: 28411
|
sungam wrote: chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: marde wrote: sungam wrote: It says 2 kN on it. That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that. (And as well 0.13% are weaker). http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.phpKorekt. Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with? That shitty Petzl one that always gives the worst case scenario and assumes the leader always has a very deep pit to fall into when stuff does hold? http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=141M of rope slip? Sweet! Holy fuckin' shiznit! My nut AND my cam both failed! Risk of injury to climber!!!11oneone1 One time I got a really marginal piece to hold on the simulator. The problem was that you would need to have a spool of rope to let that much slide. Not to mention be several pitches up or have a very deep hole for the climber to fall into. Is there a more realistic one anywhere?
So many variables anyway. If it holds on the Petzl simulator it will probably hold in real life no matter what.
|
|
|
|
|
sungam
Oct 26, 2008, 9:30 AM
Post #21 of 22
(1722 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 24, 2004
Posts: 26438
|
chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: chossmonkey wrote: sungam wrote: marde wrote: sungam wrote: It says 2 kN on it. That's a 3sigma rating it means statistically 99.87% of all these stoppers are stronger than that. (And as well 0.13% are weaker). http://www.bdel.com/about/3_sigma.phpKorekt. Anyone got the link to that force calculator, so we can see what my fat lard ass would have loaded the nut with? That shitty Petzl one that always gives the worst case scenario and assumes the leader always has a very deep pit to fall into when stuff does hold? http://en.petzl.com/...l=56&Activite=141M of rope slip? Sweet! Holy fuckin' shiznit! My nut AND my cam both failed! Risk of injury to climber!!!11oneone1 One time I got a really marginal piece to hold on the simulator. The problem was that you would need to have a spool of rope to let that much slide. Not to mention be several pitches up or have a very deep hole for the climber to fall into. Is there a more realistic one anywhere? Not that I know of. So many variables anyway. If it holds on the Petzl simulator it will probably hold in real life no matter what.
|
|
|
|
|
fatoomchk
Oct 26, 2008, 11:27 AM
Post #22 of 22
(1688 views)
Shortcut
Registered: May 18, 2007
Posts: 172
|
I can't offer anything scientific, but here's an anecdote....
So one time I was on a classic aid route in Australia (Ozymandias direct, Mt. Buffalo). I was at the gledhill bivvy and I couldn't be arsed hauling the old fashioned way, so pulled through 8-10m of rope, tied it off to the anchor and jumped off the belay. Unfortunately my fifi got caught up in one of my daisies during the descent. End result was that the fifi opened up about 10mm. It didn't take long to haul the pig though....
|
|
|
|
|
|
