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bucknasty


Nov 12, 2008, 12:01 AM
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Opinions about the Olympus E-420?
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Hey, I'm looking to get a decent, but not over the top, dslr for rock climbing/outdoors stuff and I was told to check out this model. http://www.olympusamerica.com/...uct.asp?product=1372 It seems to be pretty nice especially the small size for carrying it through the woods on the treks to the boulders & such. If you have any other suggestions, let me know. Like I said I'm not looking for something too crazy like a Mark3 or a D3, but something that I can put some miles on & get some quality pics.


pico23


Nov 12, 2008, 6:37 PM
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I'm gonna be honest with you, and save you a lot of grief down the road.

If it's not a Nikon or Canon (or Canon or Nikon) it's not worth the effort to tote around.

I'm not the only one that feels this way, there is a reason Nikon and Canon own almost 80% of total SLR sales.

Of course I'm joking (everything but the total sales), but the downside of the E-420 is the viewfinder. It's pretty small and dim. It's not worse than a digital rebel, but on par with it.

Other than that it's exactly what you are asking for in a camera. Personally, I'm still waiting for Pentax to give me a camera that small but with a Pentax quality viewfinder and weather seals.The KM is close enough size wise but missing the sealing, and dual control wheels.

I love the Olympus system and think it's one of the best around. It's got some very high end glass, along with some innovative features, and the E-3 (Olympus top of the line) has nothing to be ashamed of, actually IMO it's the best sub $2000 DSLR on the market.

One final thing to consider is the 4/3rd system register distance allows Olympus 4/3 cameras to use almost every brand glass besides canon (obviously you lose AF and automation) so you can mount just about anything to a 4/3 camera with the appropriate adapter.

Enjoy!!


pico23


Dec 17, 2008, 8:46 PM
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So what happened with the E-420?


bucknasty


Dec 17, 2008, 8:56 PM
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I need some money first, i'm a poor college student.


rockforlife


Dec 17, 2008, 8:57 PM
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bucknasty wrote:
Hey, I'm looking to get a decent, but not over the top, dslr for rock climbing/outdoors stuff and I was told to check out this model. http://www.olympusamerica.com/...uct.asp?product=1372 It seems to be pretty nice especially the small size for carrying it through the woods on the treks to the boulders & such. If you have any other suggestions, let me know. Like I said I'm not looking for something too crazy like a Mark3 or a D3, but something that I can put some miles on & get some quality pics.

Cannon 40 or 50D with 6.5 frames per second can be really fun. not that you need that


pico23


Dec 17, 2008, 10:39 PM
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I think it's funny...

I get the (cyber) crap beat out of me for passing along info on OTHER good camera companies, but if you promote Canon or Nikon no one says a thing.

Not that I'm picking on the poster, but did the OP ask about Canon?

6.5FPS is incredible but what does it mean? I took 50% of all my photos using a manual wind film camera. When I'm in the photo pit at a sports event and I let the motor run at 5fps, I get comments like, "good thing it's not film." Most people don't need 5,6,7,9fps in most situations. Actually, most of your sports illustrated cover shots are taken at 1-2fps on strobes!!! FPS is the most irrelevant thing in photography, and is largely a spec filler!

For the price of the 50D the OP could get an E3 (which has a 5FPS burst)...take a look at the specs on that monster, and then wonder if Canon isn't hosing you! Oh, and look at the AF speed test of the E3 vs. the 50D...(i note this because it's still often erroneously said that "Canon has the fastest AF")

There are quite a few good camera brands out there. Most people don't really ever research before buying they see a few adds and buy. Marketing is a powerful tool!

My sister in law recently got a Rebel XS. Perfectly adequate camera for her needs in stepping up from a P&S to shoot her son mostly. However, she bought the camera based solely on adsand some idiot in Circuit City who most likely didn't know a thing about cameras. And when I asked her why she thought that was the right camera for her, "well everyone says Canon is the leader in digital imaging."

Good answer, and if it was true, so what? What does that do for YOU personally?

She wanted a camera that worked more like a digital compact, and truthfully, the Oly E-520 was actually the best camera for her since the Live View works like a digital point and shoot, unlike Canon, Sony, Pentax, and Nikon. The Olympus also had built in SR and a dust reduction system that really works. But she was a lemming and didn't think before buying.

Safety in #'s I suppose!


guangzhou


Dec 17, 2008, 11:37 PM
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Re: [pico23] Opinions about the Olympus E-420? [In reply to]
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pico23 wrote:
I think it's funny...

I get the (cyber) crap beat out of me for passing along info on OTHER good camera companies, but if you promote Canon or Nikon no one says a thing.

Not that I'm picking on the poster, but did the OP ask about Canon?

Now you're fishing for an attack.

It's not for the sake of Nikon or Canon, it's for the lens selection once you buy into a system.

Like you, I love Pentax, but when I switched to Digital, I bough into the Nikon System.
In reply to:
6.5FPS is incredible but what does it mean? I took 50% of all my photos using a manual wind film camera. When I'm in the photo pit at a sports event and I let the motor run at 5fps, I get comments like, "good thing it's not film." Most people don't need 5,6,7,9fps in most situations. Actually, most of your sports illustrated cover shots are taken at 1-2fps on strobes!!! FPS is the most irrelevant thing in photography, and is largely a spec filler!

You're right about the FPS. Especially true in climbing images. Sort of like more megapixel battle going on. A good marketing ploy.

I do miss my Pentax K1000.
In reply to:
For the price of the 50D the OP could get an E3 (which has a 5FPS burst)...take a look at the specs on that monster, and then wonder if Canon isn't hosing you! Oh, and look at the AF speed test of the E3 vs. the 50D...(i note this because it's still often erroneously said that "Canon has the fastest AF")

There are quite a few good camera brands out there. Most people don't really ever research before buying they see a few adds and buy. Marketing is a powerful tool!
A ton of nice cameras out there, but few have the diversity of canon or Nikon when it comes to lens selection.

In reply to:
My sister in law recently got a Rebel XS. Perfectly adequate camera for her needs in stepping up from a P&S to shoot her son mostly. However, she bought the camera based solely on adsand some idiot in Circuit City who most likely didn't know a thing about cameras. And when I asked her why she thought that was the right camera for her, "well everyone says Canon is the leader in digital imaging."

Good answer, and if it was true, so what? What does that do for YOU personally?

She wanted a camera that worked more like a digital compact, and truthfully, the Oly E-520 was actually the best camera for her since the Live View works like a digital point and shoot, unlike Canon, Sony, Pentax, and Nikon. The Olympus also had built in SR and a dust reduction system that really works. But she was a lemming and didn't think before buying.

Safety in #'s I suppose!

I agree, your sister in law should not have listen to the salesman. I have to wonder, why didn't she come to you for advice? A family expert and you were not consulted.

Cheers
Eman


pico23


Dec 18, 2008, 12:48 AM
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Re: [guangzhou] Opinions about the Olympus E-420? [In reply to]
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Nah, you know I'm not one to shy away from a good debate.

There was a gap in lens choice in both systems for a few years, there was even a supply issue for a little while until inventories stabilized since both Pentax and Olympus essentially (or did) build ground up digital systems. In the end, the headaches were worth it, because both systems now have essentially a ground up lens lineup.

Of course as I noted, with Olympus you can mount a Nikkor 200mm f/2 if you so desire. Or a Minolta 300mm 2.8. This is a huge advantage if AF isn't required.

I'm not going to list all the lenses, but from 10mm to 300mm Pentax has high quality (not a consumer grade lens). From 16-200mm Pentax has weather sealed lenses with f/2.8 apertures (plus a sealed 300mm f/4). I'm just not seeing any big holes. Olympus, has possibly a better lineup of fast glass including the worlds fastest 28-80 equiv lens!!

Once you get into 200mm f/1.8s, 300mm 2.8s and 600mm f/4s (which Pentax does still produce special order and also has the best close focus of any major brand) you are spending SO MUCH MONEY, that buying an alternate body is inconsequential. I mean a $1500 body on top of $15,000 in glass is not exactly going to break the bank.

Where I'm losing you is the idea that everyone is going to eventually buy a 200mm f/1.8 (a $5000 lens) or a 300mm 2.8 (a $3,500 lens), or a 600mm f/4 which is someplace between $7-12K . I have a Nikon system and have plans for a 300 2.8 but the reality is this is a very specific niche purchase that is solely for high end sports shooting. I don't expect to use this lens off the field very often. Most people have no need, or desire to carry a 200 1.8 or a 300 2.8, or 600 f/4. You do realize a 600mm f/4 weighs 15lbs? You can't carry that around the crag, not for fun anyway.

The rationale of buying a camera for a lens you might never buy, is about as good as buying a boat trailer for the boat you might never have. Just doesn't make sense. Unfortunately, MOST times advice is given on this rationale.


Seriously Eman, you make money off your photography, what lenses do you own and use regularly? I'm betting you become my proof that a lot of the "lens choice" thing is misinformation. You probably use a wide angle zoom, a normal zoom, and a tele zoom, plus have a fast prime or two scattered in there. I'm willing to bet your could build your entire system with either Oly or Pentax.

Anyway, I've never said any one brand is superior to another. If I had the cash I'd honestly shoot everyone of them. What I have said, is at least look around, beyond the marketing and misinformation to get a camera that suits YOUR foreseeable needs, rather than some potential need years down the road, that may or may not ever become a reality!


edit to note: my sister in law is impulsive. She buys then thinks about the purchase. The Rebel was literally not on any list. She just saw it on sale (Black Friday) and bought it because she wanted better photos of her son. I got consulted about 2 days later when she realized 1) it didn't work like a point and shoot 2) it might not have been what she wanted. 2 hours of explaining how an SLR works, how the IQ is better because of the larger sensor, how the optical viewfinder is sort of the point of an SLR, etc. Believe me it's easier convincing you guys that Canon neither invented the camera nor always offers the best product then explaining camera design and function to her! I think she kept the Rebel, and if not I don't care!!!! Either way I'll find out in two weeks when we are down there for New Years, I just pray she figured it out by then!Wink


(This post was edited by pico23 on Dec 18, 2008, 12:55 AM)


guangzhou


Dec 18, 2008, 5:20 PM
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pico23 wrote:
Nah, you know I'm not one to shy away from a good debate.
Actually, I did know that.
In reply to:
There was a gap in lens choice in both systems for a few years, there was even a supply issue for a little while until inventories stabilized since both Pentax and Olympus essentially (or did) build ground up digital systems. In the end, the headaches were worth it, because both systems now have essentially a ground up lens lineup.

True if you live in the U.S.A., but when you leave the borders of the U.S., especially in South East Asia, your choices for buying non-canon or non-nikon lens diminish very quickly.
Itís also the second hand market that sees big gaps. Because most people do buy Canon and Nikon, those lens mounts can be bought second hand much easier then other brands.
A large second hand lens market also makes it easier for me to sell my old lenses when I upgrade. Yes, I sell my old lenses when I upgrade, I use the money to help fund the new lens.
In reply to:


Of course as I noted, with Olympus you can mount a Nikkor 200mm f/2 if you so desire. Or a Minolta 300mm 2.8. This is a huge advantage if AF isn't required.

I'm not going to list all the lenses, but from 10mm to 300mm Pentax has high quality (not a consumer grade lens). From 16-200mm Pentax has weather sealed lenses with f/2.8 apertures (plus a sealed 300mm f/4). I'm just not seeing any big holes. Olympus, has possibly a better lineup of fast glass including the worlds fastest 28-80 equiv lens!!
I am an ex-Pentax user too, but I do think they will last much longer in the field. Todayís markets, not just in photography are consolidating. I am predicting that Pentax will vanish in the next decade with Nikon and Canon staying on top of the market.

Like you, a camera is a means to an end for me. To be completely honest, pictures in most lines are equal in quality with very small differences that most people, including professionals canít tell. With most photos being displayed digitally or on small to medium prints today, the differences are not all that noticeable.
In reply to:
Once you get into 200mm f/1.8s, 300mm 2.8s and 600mm f/4s (which Pentax does still produce special order and also has the best close focus of any major brand) you are spending SO MUCH MONEY, that buying an alternate body is inconsequential. I mean a $1500 body on top of $15,000 in glass is not exactly going to break the bank.

Where I'm losing you is the idea that everyone is going to eventually buy a 200mm f/1.8 (a $5000 lens) or a 300mm 2.8 (a $3,500 lens), or a 600mm f/4 which is someplace between $7-12K . I have a Nikon system and have plans for a 300 2.8 but the reality is this is a very specific niche purchase that is solely for high end sports shooting. I don't expect to use this lens off the field very often. Most people have no need, or desire to carry a 200 1.8 or a 300 2.8, or 600 f/4. You do realize a 600mm f/4 weighs 15lbs? You can't carry that around the crag, not for fun anyway.
Agree with you, most people will not own a line of high end lenses.
In reply to:
The rationale of buying a camera for a lens you might never buy, is about as good as buying a boat trailer for the boat you might never have. Just doesn't make sense. Unfortunately, MOST times advice is given on this rationale.


Seriously Eman, you make money off your photography, what lenses do you own and use regularly? I'm betting you become my proof that a lot of the "lens choice" thing is misinformation. You probably use a wide angle zoom, a normal zoom, and a tele zoom, plus have a fast prime or two scattered in there. I'm willing to bet your could build your entire system with either Oly or Pentax.

You are correct, my lens selection is limited to 10mm to 300. Most of the lens are 2.8 all the way through and I have a couple of fixed lenses in there too. I also have a 2x tele converter to extend my reach some.
Because I live in Asia, I couldnít have built my whole system around Pentax, the selection wasnít available without ordering everything online which would have killed my in expenses and imports.
I would also have problems with getting quality work done on those sytem by people certified. So, I choose Nikon. For me, Nikon was right because of the way it handles and feels in my hands.

The transition from Pentax to Nikon was fairly straight forward, but it did take some time. Just like the transition from slides to digital is taking time.
My lenses are a blend of Sigma and Nikon. I am considering getting rid of my fixed 50mm because I hardly use it, but I just upgraded my camera to a D90 which has a full-sensor, so I am waiting to see if the 50mm will get more use.

I have friends who shoot Canon and I sometime use their cameras and they handle fine too.
In reply to:
Anyway, I've never said any one brand is superior to another. If I had the cash I'd honestly shoot everyone of them. What I have said, is at least look around, beyond the marketing and misinformation to get a camera that suits YOUR foreseeable needs, rather than some potential need years down the road, that may or may not ever become a reality!

This I agree with. Buy what you need, not what other say you want. The reason I donít buy a profession body is that I donít need it. Iíve had a D70 for years now. Itís a work-horse of a camera that survives Big Wall First Ascents in Tropical rain forest and equatorial heat/humidity. I only upgraded to simplify my work-flow with my stock agencies.
When I upgraded to the D90, I sold the D70 and it paid for almost 50% of my new body.
In reply to:
edit to note: my sister in law is impulsive. She buys then thinks about the purchase. The Rebel was literally not on any list. She just saw it on sale (Black Friday) and bought it because she wanted better photos of her son. I got consulted about 2 days later when she realized 1) it didn't work like a point and shoot 2) it might not have been what she wanted. 2 hours of explaining how an SLR works, how the IQ is better because of the larger sensor, how the optical viewfinder is sort of the point of an SLR, etc. Believe me it's easier convincing you guys that Canon neither invented the camera nor always offers the best product then explaining camera design and function to her! I think she kept the Rebel, and if not I don't care!!!! Either way I'll find out in two weeks when we are down there for New Years, I just pray she figured it out by then!Wink
I avoid impulse buying. A photographer friend of mine is impressed with how long I hold out when I buy photo gear. He saw me wait, review, and hold camera bodies for over a year before I bought my D70. I always had a reason for not buying.
When I told him I bought the D90, he was very surprised that I would buy a camera so quickly after itís initial appearance on the market.

I do agree, look at your long term use of the camera before you buy it. Consider what you need and how the images will be used and avoid buying something because someone recommended it.

Cheers
Eman
PS- WHy did you quit your blog. It was a fun blog to read and visit.


(This post was edited by guangzhou on Dec 18, 2008, 5:21 PM)


pico23


Dec 18, 2008, 8:01 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:


Of course as I noted, with Olympus you can mount a Nikkor 200mm f/2 if you so desire. Or a Minolta 300mm 2.8. This is a huge advantage if AF isn't required.

I'm not going to list all the lenses, but from 10mm to 300mm Pentax has high quality (not a consumer grade lens). From 16-200mm Pentax has weather sealed lenses with f/2.8 apertures (plus a sealed 300mm f/4). I'm just not seeing any big holes. Olympus, has possibly a better lineup of fast glass including the worlds fastest 28-80 equiv lens!!
In reply to:

I am an ex-Pentax user too, but I do think they will last much longer in the field. Todayís markets, not just in photography are consolidating. I am predicting that Pentax will vanish in the next decade with Nikon and Canon staying on top of the market.

Here is the thing... It's been speculated that Pentax was going to go bankrupt about 30 times in the last 30 years, yet they never have, and if you look at the financials the closest they came was in the early 2000s when they were one of the last players besides Minolta to enter digital.

This is largely because, unlike Minolta, they never put all the eggs in one basket. Minolta did it at least 2 times, the last being the APS-C film cameras. Ouch!!!

Pentax largely has, and will survive because it HASN'T tried to take on Nikon and Canon. Neither has Olympus. Olympus decided the amount of sales on a 1D/D3 level camera was so small that it wasn't worth marketing and R&D. Instead they put the best camera they could make at $1700. Not a bad move IMO. Why fight over the smallest segment of the camera market?

The fact that they (Pentax) have a lineup that challenges Canon and Nikon again is nice, but the core is still the niche aluminum bodied primes, and the new compact and fast weather sealed primes/zooms. Canon and Nikon don't offer that, and probably will never. Zeiss, Leica, and some others do (Limited type glass) but the price of a Leica lens or camera is absurdly high.

What Pentax offers is Leica build on the Limiteds, AF (Leica never has produced an AF body), and top notch image quality for about 1/5th of the cost of a Leica lens or body.

And compared to Canon or Nikon they offer sub $600 sealed lenses, plus the ability to use classic glass with image stabilization. They offer front line compact lenses, rather than after thought kit zooms. They offer things like spot metering on every model. The built in flash activates the wireless system! The build of the base models doesn't feel like a toy! Little stuff that the other brands hold back.

I would agree with you whole heartedly about the 10 year thing if they went head to head, but they have thus far never chosen to do that, and for good reason. So I'm gonna say they might be around in 10 years or they might not, but who knows what company will really be around in a decade in these times!


guangzhou


Dec 19, 2008, 1:41 AM
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Your blog???


Basta916


Dec 19, 2008, 10:18 AM
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guangzhou wrote:
I just upgraded my camera to a D90 which has a full-sensor, so I am waiting to see if the 50mm will get more use.

.


Isnt D90 a DX????????? (D3 and D700 are FX)


Wunderkind


Dec 19, 2008, 12:09 PM
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Re: [bucknasty] Opinions about the Olympus E-420? [In reply to]
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In case you're still saving - I have the Evolt-510 and have found it to be a good first DSLR. I'm still very much learning, and my good photog friends can take far superior photos with this than I can so I figure I'm not missing out on anything (yet) by not having the Canon or Nikon.

So far I've had my camera for almost two years and no problems at all. I believe the 510 is bigger than the 420 so you might be better off on that front.


pico23


Dec 19, 2008, 10:25 PM
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Re: [guangzhou] Opinions about the Olympus E-420? [In reply to]
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guangzhou wrote:
Your blog???

The 510 is a nice camera. Actually the E-30 that is coming out is a great looking camera. Basically an E-3 without the sealing + higher MP sensor (not that it matters but a nice touch if the IQ is also improved). If I didn't have other needs/wants, I'd either buy a E-420, the forthcoming Oly version of the Panasonic G1 (micro 4/3), or an old Oly E1 used just to play around with.

Well the blog will be around if two things happen 1) Google continues to keep blogger free and no ads. I won't pay for it, and refuse to put up ads. Advertising just permeates every segment of our society in the US. And I can't stand ads myself.

2) If I can get post up on it. It originally started as a way to not fill peoples mail boxes with 500 word trip reports and 5MB of photos. But I've come to expect more from myself since often I get emails inquiring about buying photos. In a sense it's been the best advertising for my photography. I just sold the photo of Albany's D&H building for a brochure all through the blog!

My subscribership has oddly increased but I couldn't tell you why? As I've neglected this baby for 6 mos. Whats funny is I have about 8 trip reports, and even a few how to articles to put on there. I just haven't either finished them or had the photos done to upload. Now 1+1 has come together and I expect to do some major updates in the next week or two! Actually, I'll probably finish the articles new years weekend while driving to memphis!

But something to mull over, this Forbes article about Sony...you might notice Samsung is doing OK. Samsung makes Pentax sensors now, and the two of them essentially co-release DSLRs (K20D=GX20, K10D=GX10, and so on)! Oddly Canon and Nikon bottom lines aren't doing all that well. With Canon having to seriously cut prices to move existing product off shelves. Can't ship more product till the old stuff is gone...big problem!

I'm sure neither is going out of business, but the fact is releasing a bunch of new high end cameras in a recession is a bad idea. Pentax has said they don't expect to replace the K20D (Fully, although I'm sure a slightly modified "Super" version will come out at PMA in March!) for another 12 months. That would make the K20D 24-30 months old when it's discontinued, a long time in digital years! This, like the Canon 5D should be a real money maker. Same machines, same sensor, and a great price point should sell a lot of cameras with a high profit margin. As long as they can continue to sell cameras with long production times, cost per camera continually drops for Pentax, and they can continually cut prices to keep sales up while maintaining profits.

Sometimes sitting back and watching the other guys stumble is a better move than taking the lead.

http://www.forbes.com/...dd_1209markets3.html


rokklym


Dec 21, 2008, 6:28 PM
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I am an olympus DSLR user too, owning an E-520 and an E-510 and I can add a few cents to the debate. I really enjoy my cameras, they are very easy to use, that was the first thing I noticed when I picked one up. The E-420 is a great smaller DSLR and it is one that you won't leave behind because its too big. The image quality is on par with anything in that market segment and really, its like the old saying "Its not the arrow, its the indian". Give Harrison Shull an $100 point and shoot and the average person a canon 5D and I bet Shull will get the best images.

Olympus isn't perfect by any means but nobody is, its all a compromise. One good thing about Olympus is that they don't release new models every 2 months, they put alot of thought into their new stuff. I personally am saving for an E3, or the replacement to it. With the E3's weather sealing and the sweet Zuiko weather sealed lenses, it would be hard to find a better adventure camera.

If your interested in a used camera, check out this site: http://forum.fourthirdsphoto.com/ and go to the buy & sell page, there is some crazy deals there sometimes!


Forums : Climbing Disciplines : Climbing Photography

 


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