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angry
Nov 13, 2008, 8:08 PM
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I think I've made a big mistake.
I just got a pair of BD Cyborg pons. I got the binding with the plastic strap. Grivel calls this new-matic. I don't know what BD calls it but it's the same thing.
I've put them on and off my boots a few times. I think I've found a setting that's tight enough but there's no bail to hold the front in. With the strap cinched down, there doesn't seem to be any play. With the strap loose, I can jerk the front of the pon down.
I guess as long as the strap stays tight, this isn't a problem. If that strap loosens up, I could see myself in shit creek awfully quick.
The primary use will be on WI4,5,and 6. Multipitch, lots of vertical ice, and dry tooling up to M8/M9. I also expect to improve on the M rating in the upcoming months. I won't have spurs but I'll be using every other trick in the book. I really don't want them to come off.
For glaciers, walking, and anything that's not steep WI or M, I'll be in G12's.
So did I buy the wrong binding system? I'm very worried whether or not these will hold up.
I have some BD toe bails I could put on but I'd probably have to dremel the new-matic system off.
Ideas?
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brent_e
Nov 13, 2008, 8:40 PM
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second for a while until your comfy.
that dude trusts them. I know a lot of people say "so and so does this so you should be able to" and then the other side is that "so and so could climb WI6 with a bread knife and flip flops so don't compare."
do they still have holes for a normal bail? The pictures i've found they do - at least you have the option.
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sungam
Nov 14, 2008, 2:00 AM
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wait... My BD newmatic 'poons have two little metal things (maybe 2 inches long, maybe just 1 inch) that stick up in the front. Your's don't have that?
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angry
Nov 14, 2008, 2:28 AM
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There is a tab on each side probably a half in tall and less than a half inch wide, they are what the plastic is attached to.
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sungam
Nov 14, 2008, 3:14 AM
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angry wrote: There is a tab on each side probably a half in tall and less than a half inch wide, they are what the plastic is attached to.
Lock and load, man. Just make sure to pass the strap through the big ring a 3rd time so it's sticking out the back of your boot, know what I mean?
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brent_e
Nov 14, 2008, 3:45 AM
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angry wrote: brent_e wrote: second for a while until your comfy. It's a good idea, but you know how partners and such go, I'll probably be soloing in them before seconding. They do have the oval holes for the bails. If the binding sucks, I can easily go back to bails. I'm just worried about the moment after I realize that the bindings suck. Of course they might not suck. It does seem impossible to get them off the boot without releasing the heel, so even if the strap comes off, it should only introduce a little play. I don't know though, new things scare me.
soloing on new gear scares me, too.
hopefully they don't suck. do you solo with a harness and a couple screws???
I'm not going to tell you what to do or anything, but do you have any place to rope solo to get a feel for them before you're totally committed??
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adamtd
Nov 17, 2008, 2:12 PM
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Dude,
Grab a freind and head out for some top roping. Make an afternoon out of kicking the snot out of the ice, trying to pop you points off. In the ned though, most people end up going with newmatics over a front bail because the newmatics are less likely to pop off. If you really want to experience pucker factor, have your front bail on your step-ins pop off while sketched out a couple hundred, or thousands of feet up. Plus, you should be kicking into the ice straight on or slightly downward with your points, not upward. You should certainly be able to drag your foot along the ice and other features without creating that much force as to pull them off. In the end, most big mountain climbers I know, end up wearing newmatics because they're more secure. I still where step-ins myself, but I've made modificatiosn to my boots to prevent the bail from popping off.
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the_climber
Dec 19, 2008, 9:08 PM
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Angry, you get out on those poons yet?
I was a little wary of the new matic at first when I made the switch 4.. or is it 5 seasons ago... doesn't matter. What matters is that I am still climbing in them. If I didn't like them there is absolutly nothing holding me back from buying crampomatic G14's. I have the money, it wouldn't even make x-mas hard if I bought some. But the fact of the matter is that I LOVE my newmatic G14's. The binding is simply better. Better feedback, better security, more comfortable, more versatility, and so on.
I've used them on everything from glacier slogs, mixed alpine, to M7+/M8, to WI 5+. I wouldn't trade them in for wire toe bails.
The only wire to bail crampon I still use is a set of Sabretooths, bought them because they were only about $20 and I wanted a set of horizontal points for alpine and shitty ice condition. Those poons will be replaced with G12 Newmatics this spring, for 2 reasons; those being New-matic bindings are better, and I prefer Grivel crampons over other brands.
This isn't intended as a name droping of could climb anything with whatever tool/poon. Every time I've run into Will Gadd or Raphael Slawinski the past 2 seasons they've been wearing new-matic style poons. When I asked them why, they gave the same reasons of greater security, better feedback, ...
Steve House and many others have been big supporters of newmatic bindings for years as well.
Like I said though, I was very skeptical at first. I'm not anymore. I will say that you need to adjust the poon a little different with newmatics than crampomatics, typically a little looser depending on the boot. As for keeping them tight, a simple extra pass through the douple ring on the webbing will solve that (I add in a little hitch for extra piece of mind).
Hope you like them.
Let me know what you think of the binding.
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angry
Dec 26, 2008, 8:53 PM
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So I've had several days on them now and they haven't budged. I'm pretty confident that they aren't popping off.
One problem is that they are further back on the boot than I want them to be. I'd be much more satisfied with these pons if I could move them forward about 1/4". Is there a way to space out the crampon or boot to do this and maintain the security?
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the_climber
Dec 27, 2008, 7:32 PM
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That was the first gripe I had with my new-matics as well.
You have the same 3 options I did.
1 - Get used to shorter front points
2 - Bend in the posts a bit (I'm assuming you're using boots with a relatively low profile toe)
3 - lengthen the center plate one hole and let the binding work the way it's supposed too.
The biggest thing I had to get used to was not adjusting the crampon so tight (the webbing "on" the binding does need to be snug). I just warrenteed my Grivel G14's and the posts at the front are narrower on the new pair. This has allowed me to shorten the 'poon a notch, but I have not noticed any change in how they perform... infact I shortened them mostly to shorten the front points up a bit. Look at how the new-matic binding tightens up; if you lengthen the centerbar by one hole past where you would with a wire bail, then tighten the strap on your boot you'll see how the binding draws the 'poon into the toe of the boot.
It's a different system, but I'm sure you'll get used to it fast enough.
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adeptus
Jan 27, 2009, 8:58 AM
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the_climber
Jan 27, 2009, 2:49 PM
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adeptus wrote: Three things to learn from this: 1) Be careful not hit the upper side of the front points against the ice (which can be hard to avoid on overhanging ice). 2) Make sure that the crampons are tight (I probably had about 5 mm of space at the heel). 3) Do not use this binding on narrow boots (I had no problems with them on my Spantiks, which have a wide front) Learning that New Matic bindings are better: Priceless
Did I get it right?
Yes I totally cheezetitted that.
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adeptus
Jan 27, 2009, 4:06 PM
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the_climber
Jan 27, 2009, 4:30 PM
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OK, I had to look REALLY close at the photo to see the clip/new-matic type binding on your 'poons.
Hmmmm. I havn't run into that issue with either the Grivel's or the old CM with webbing. And that's usign both vert and horizontal frint points. Interesting.
You contacting BD for a new set of 'poons? Bad batch of plastic? Look into it.
Atleast they're easy to fix when you're out there.
The narrow boot thing can be a broblem with that style of binding for adjustment, perhaps that lead to more stress cycles on the binding than the design could withstand. I have noticed that the posts on some of the BD's are wider than the new Grivel posts. Grivel narrowed the profile since I first started using the G14's... something I was happy to find out on my second pair of G14's.
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