Forums: Climbing Information: The Lab:
Equalette with a 6 strand power point.
RSS FeedRSS Feeds for The Lab

Premier Sponsor:

 


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 16, 2008, 1:45 PM
Post #1 of 24 (4460 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32071

Equalette with a 6 strand power point.
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

If you are stumbling across this, you might want to reference this thread and this thread to get caught up.

On with the show...

First, let me apologize for the blurred pictures. Didn't realize that my flash/shutter was still set up for another project I was shooting.

I start by placing my double-fisherman's knot in the middle of the rope, like so:



Then around the mid-point I start to break the two halves into tiny thirds (this is where the 6 strands at the powerpoint come from):



For ease and simplicity I tie an overhand knot and feed the tail through the loop that creates one of the 'thirds':





Repeat for the other side:





It gives me this set-up for the power point. Having 6 strands allows a single biner to be used per attachment. Though fully rigged it can be a busy power point.





And that is how you get 6 strands on your power point for an equalette.


(This post was edited by epoch on Nov 16, 2008, 6:03 PM)


billl7


Nov 16, 2008, 3:13 PM
Post #2 of 24 (4393 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Oct 13, 2005
Posts: 1888

Re: [epoch] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Regarding the limiter knots, I regularly climb with a variety of folks. When I use the equalette built "as-advertised", I'll admit that I get a lot of puzzled looks as to "Where exactly is the power point"? And "do we really need to use two biners or is a sliding 'X' okay?"

On the other hand, I do like having limiter knots where the strands between them are relatively well 'fixed' and the capsize-failure (failure of an anchor leg) is somewhat understood.

In this case and with these knots - assuming I tied them correctly - pulling on a certain two strands seems to cause slippage until the two knots come together on other strands. In a serious fall, would the slippage be enough to cause any melting?

Also, the knots seem to relatively easily shift around if one arm of the anchor fails. That could be due to the 2-on-4 nature of the knot or maybe I just need to tighten it down a little more? Maybe this shifting is no worse than a regular overhand or figure eight that capsizes?

Just some thoughts. Not sure if this amounts to whining or something more.

Bill L


tradrenn


Nov 16, 2008, 3:29 PM
Post #3 of 24 (4378 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 2990

Re: [epoch] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

epoch wrote:


I would got rid of that draw and call it good.


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 16, 2008, 3:30 PM
Post #4 of 24 (4376 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32071

Re: [billl7] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

This is something that I've been playing with only recently.

I noticed that if it wasn't initially tied cleanly it could shift bringing the two strands together. However I also played with it a bit and as my knots have become tighter it becomes quite stable IMHO.

The jury is still out on this one for me. But it does eliminate the sliding x or biners on two separate strands.


coolcat83


Nov 16, 2008, 3:43 PM
Post #5 of 24 (4362 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 27, 2007
Posts: 1006

Re: [epoch] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

looks like a cluster fook to me. but i can see the point


scotty1974


Nov 16, 2008, 4:17 PM
Post #6 of 24 (4335 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2006
Posts: 248

Re: [coolcat83] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Looks strong, but I would never use something like that, especially on a multipitch climb...too complex. My partner would raise hell if I took the time to tie that!

Simpler is better I think. Looks safe though!


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 16, 2008, 4:52 PM
Post #7 of 24 (4317 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32071

Re: [scotty1974] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

scotty1974 wrote:
Looks strong, but I would never use something like that, especially on a multipitch climb...too complex. My partner would raise hell if I took the time to tie that!

Simpler is better I think. Looks safe though!
Pre-tie it! You'll only need to clove the biners of your pro after that. If you can't see it, I intend on showing how to use it as-is on bolted anchors too.


scotty1974


Nov 16, 2008, 7:11 PM
Post #8 of 24 (4264 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 30, 2006
Posts: 248

Re: [epoch] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I should have specified multipitch trad. Pre tying would work excellent, but I would hesitate to commit gear to a pre established system. A sport climb sure. I have the trango alpine equalizer and a cordellete and I find that I mostly use my floss slings and a double length petzel runner. To my point of pretying, we are always cannabilizing our gear, so for my personal use a pre tie or carrying more gear wouldn't work.

Again this is just the way I've learned and experience tells me I don't know so much!! I've also picked up abit from my partner, and he's a bit good with the simple anchors.


shockabuku


Nov 18, 2008, 4:36 AM
Post #9 of 24 (4087 views)
Shortcut

Registered: May 20, 2006
Posts: 4862

Re: [epoch] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I think your series of pix would benefit from another wide angle shot showing where the two knots go in relation to the length of the equalette.


hafilax


Nov 18, 2008, 8:57 AM
Post #10 of 24 (4028 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 3025

Re: [shockabuku] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Is this for redundant redundancy?


dingus


Nov 18, 2008, 9:02 AM
Post #11 of 24 (4026 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17392

Re: Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

What's the point of all that rope trickery?

Seriously?

DMT


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 18, 2008, 9:20 AM
Post #12 of 24 (4007 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32071

Re: [dingus] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

dingus wrote:
What's the point of all that rope trickery?

Seriously?

DMT

It allows multiple power points between the limiter knots that are redundant and self-equalizing in thier own right.


dingus


Nov 18, 2008, 9:26 AM
Post #13 of 24 (4000 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17392

Re: [epoch] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Ah! Got it, thanks.

DMT


ja1484


Nov 18, 2008, 9:43 AM
Post #14 of 24 (3986 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 10, 2006
Posts: 1935

Re: [epoch] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

 
Jesus Christ, WHY?

Three strands provides for single-biner rigging on the powerpoint. Why add all those extra knots and jiggery pokery for 6? I still don't understand the purpose of 4-strand equalettes.

Can someone please explain the purpose here to me?


Partner epoch
Moderator

Nov 18, 2008, 9:51 AM
Post #15 of 24 (3973 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Apr 27, 2005
Posts: 32071

Re: [ja1484] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

It's just a different way of doing things.

Why not? Tongue


Jbitz


Nov 18, 2008, 10:01 AM
Post #16 of 24 (3963 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 124

Re: [epoch] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I tried the equalette and then came up with the triplette on my own, because I thought the hanging belay with a equalette was a pain. I have been using it for a year for single and multi-pitch routes and like the setup.

I would not have a problem using your rig, but I do think that a three-stranded equalette works fine. It is both redundant and a clean system. Six strands seems a little excessive.


dingus


Nov 18, 2008, 10:30 AM
Post #17 of 24 (3940 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 16, 2002
Posts: 17392

Re: [epoch] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

epoch wrote:
It's just a different way of doing things.

Why not? Tongue

The 'why nots' are most succinctly encapsulated in the team ahead of you on that popular Yosemite classic, taking 20 to 30 minutes per belay to establish an anchor.

I know you said you can do these things lickity split and I totally believe you.

Its not YOU I'm worried about (and I'm not all that worried anyway haha); it's that guy up above us, taking 25 minutes per textbook-belay. I have a BIG problem with him....

I'm far more willing to climb right the fuck over slow teams, German-style, than ever before. The growing overhead of internet-junk and group-think solutions (to solve problems that are debatable to begin with) has really slowed down trade routing in the Valley, imo.

DMT


tradrenn


Nov 18, 2008, 11:30 AM
Post #18 of 24 (3906 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 2990

Re: [Jbitz] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

Jbitz wrote:
I tried the equalette and then came up with the triplette on my own, because I thought the hanging belay with a equalette was a pain. I have been using it for a year for single and multi-pitch routes and like the setup.

I would not have a problem using your rig, but I do think that a three-stranded equalette works fine. It is both redundant and a clean system. Six strands seems a little excessive.

Pics please.


ja1484


Nov 18, 2008, 2:41 PM
Post #19 of 24 (3848 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Aug 10, 2006
Posts: 1935

Re: [epoch] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

 
Dingus sums it up pretty succintly - speed and efficiency. This thing is more complicated than it needs to be to accomplish the goals it's designed to address.

If you like it, fine, but you can be bomber faster, and that means more pitches in a climbing day.


Partner j_ung


Nov 18, 2008, 4:32 PM
Post #20 of 24 (3810 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18687

Re: [epoch] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

test post. nothing to see here. move along.


hafilax


Nov 18, 2008, 4:50 PM
Post #21 of 24 (3799 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 3025

Re: [j_ung] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

What is this? Passive agressive moderation?
(now that's an oxymoron)

Bluey can't handle the equalette?! Tongue


Jbitz


Nov 19, 2008, 6:16 AM
Post #22 of 24 (3754 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 124

Re: [tradrenn] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

It's tied with a two overhand knots on each side.

I like that it does not have a double fisherman's in the anchor loops to get in the way. Anyways, it works for me.





tradrenn


Nov 19, 2008, 12:33 PM
Post #23 of 24 (3723 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Jan 15, 2005
Posts: 2990

Re: [Jbitz] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

I keep my DF close to overhand knot.


hafilax


Nov 19, 2008, 1:18 PM
Post #24 of 24 (3713 views)
Shortcut

Registered: Dec 11, 2007
Posts: 3025

Re: [tradrenn] Equalette with a 6 strand power point. [In reply to]
Report this Post
Average: avg_1 avg_2 avg_3 avg_4 avg_5 (0 ratings)  
Can't Post

The problem I see with any pre-tied equalette is that you are limiting the versatility which will require using extra slings to get extra length on one side and ending up with huge amounts of slack on the other. At least with the simple 2 strand version with overhand knots you can move the range limiting area around. At the very least I'd make the master point length much longer since the point of it is equalization. Range limiting is distantly secondary. Using a sliding-x at the master point misses the point of good equalization as well.

As for wanting all those extra strands? The probability of the cord getting cut at the master point is slim to none IMO and the cord is plenty strong as a single strand. I might consider this for an unattended toprope anchor since I build more redundancy into that situation. If I'm watching the anchor and can see that nothing funny is going on then redundancy is less of a concern.


Forums : Climbing Information : The Lab

 


Search for (options)

Log In:

Username:
Password: Remember me:

Go Register
Go Lost Password?



Follow us on Twiter Become a Fan on Facebook