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thin horrizontal cracks
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Lazlo


Nov 16, 2008, 6:59 PM
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thin horrizontal cracks
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I have a particular route that I want to establish on aid. There are a few crack sustems to follow, but I also want/need to be able to utilize thin cracks that run horrizontally. They're less than a finger in width. The rock is limestone. The route is vertical to overhanging.

What gear/techniques/tools could help with this situation?


coastal_climber


Nov 16, 2008, 7:09 PM
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Re: [Lazlo] thin horrizontal cracks [In reply to]
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Blue aliens, thin pins. Other than that, experience. Are you doing this solo?


>Cam


Lazlo


Nov 16, 2008, 7:12 PM
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I might be doing it solo, yes.


nkane


Nov 16, 2008, 7:40 PM
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Ballnutz?


uni_jim


Nov 16, 2008, 7:48 PM
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inverted cam hooks if you can sink them into the crack.
also small nuts & aliens. Try to avoid pitons if you can.


(This post was edited by uni_jim on Nov 16, 2008, 7:49 PM)


patto


Nov 16, 2008, 8:24 PM
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Re: [Lazlo] thin horrizontal cracks [In reply to]
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Whats wrong with cams?


pmyche


Nov 16, 2008, 8:40 PM
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suilenroc


Nov 16, 2008, 8:41 PM
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Re: [Lazlo] thin horrizontal cracks [In reply to]
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In reply to:
thin cracks that run horrizontally. They're less than a finger in width

So these "horizontal cracks" are basically holes? Width is a horizontal measurement... are you saying that the crack is less than a finger in height?


petsfed


Nov 16, 2008, 9:14 PM
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Re: [suilenroc] thin horrizontal cracks [In reply to]
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suilenroc wrote:
In reply to:
thin cracks that run horrizontally. They're less than a finger in width

So these "horizontal cracks" are basically holes? Width is a horizontal measurement... are you saying that the crack is less than a finger in height?

Really? I mean, I'm used to arbitrary measures of certain units, but I've never heard that one.

Let me get you up to speed on how we describe cracks (since clearly you know sweet fuck all about it, and also failed the part of 4th grade science class that explained that height, width, and depth are arbitrary and NOT universal): height describes the distance between the ground and the end of the route (or the distance between the ground and your particular position of the route). Depth is the distance from the surface of the rock to the "bottom" of the crack, in a direction perpendicular to the surface of the rock. Width is the smaller of two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock. Length is the large of the two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock.

If you're gonna be pedantic, at least be right. Otherwise, sweet jesus do you sound like a dumbass.


Lazlo


Nov 16, 2008, 9:14 PM
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Re: [pmyche] thin horrizontal cracks [In reply to]
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pmyche wrote:
"Thin" in aid usually means LA and smaller sizes.

No offense intended, but asking how to climb this thing seems weird. Figuring it out based on what you see from below is sort of the essence of aid, IMO. If you don't feel confident enough in your abilities to do that, maybe a lead on the deck is not the best place to learn.

Cheers.

Well, the thing is, I'm waiting for a chance to get back to the rock (weather window and open weekend) ...and in the meantime I'm also bored at home. Put those two together, and what you get is lots of re-organization of gear and forum posts.

Also, I was thinking knife Blades, but I want to go clean. Maybe hand-placed/hammerless KBs?

I like the cam hook idea.


(This post was edited by Lazlo on Nov 16, 2008, 9:17 PM)


suilenroc


Nov 16, 2008, 9:22 PM
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Re: [petsfed] thin horrizontal cracks [In reply to]
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In reply to:
Really? I mean, I'm used to arbitrary measures of certain units, but I've never heard that one.

Let me get you up to speed on how we describe cracks (since clearly you know sweet fuck all about it, and also failed the part of 4th grade science class that explained that height, width, and depth are arbitrary and NOT universal): height describes the distance between the ground and the end of the route (or the distance between the ground and your particular position of the route). Depth is the distance from the surface of the rock to the "bottom" of the crack, in a direction perpendicular to the surface of the rock. Width is the smaller of two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock. Length is the large of the two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock.

If you're gonna be pedantic, at least be right. Otherwise, sweet jesus do you sound like a dumbass.

Hahahah Tongue Wow, thanks for your amazing response! Your so cool Crazy. Hey mango, just trying to figure out exactly what the OP was saying... lets let this thread stay on track! ohh, and your wrong.


currupt4130


Nov 16, 2008, 9:24 PM
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Re: [petsfed] thin horrizontal cracks [In reply to]
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petsfed wrote:
suilenroc wrote:
In reply to:
thin cracks that run horrizontally. They're less than a finger in width

So these "horizontal cracks" are basically holes? Width is a horizontal measurement... are you saying that the crack is less than a finger in height?

Really? I mean, I'm used to arbitrary measures of certain units, but I've never heard that one.

Let me get you up to speed on how we describe cracks (since clearly you know sweet fuck all about it, and also failed the part of 4th grade science class that explained that height, width, and depth are arbitrary and NOT universal): height describes the distance between the ground and the end of the route (or the distance between the ground and your particular position of the route). Depth is the distance from the surface of the rock to the "bottom" of the crack, in a direction perpendicular to the surface of the rock. Width is the smaller of two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock. Length is the large of the two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock.

If you're gonna be pedantic, at least be right. Otherwise, sweet jesus do you sound like a dumbass.

Thank you. I read that and couldn't help laugh. Then I couldn't come up with a way that would satisfactorily rip him a new asshole on how ridiculous his assertion that width is a direct measurement relating to left right, east west, w/e.


suilenroc


Nov 16, 2008, 9:29 PM
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Re: [currupt4130] thin horrizontal cracks [In reply to]
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width
Pronunciation:
\ˈwidth, ˈwitth\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
1wide
Date:
1627
1 : the horizontal measurement taken at right angles to the length


Lazlo


Nov 16, 2008, 9:31 PM
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Re: [suilenroc] thin horrizontal cracks [In reply to]
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suilenroc wrote:
width
Pronunciation:
\ˈwidth, ˈwitth\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
1wide
Date:
1627
1 : the horizontal measurement taken at right angles to the length

Now define length.


suilenroc


Nov 16, 2008, 9:32 PM
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here is a better one for those that like to be pricks... hahahSmile

Length is the long dimension of any object. The length of a thing is the distance between its ends, its linear extent as measured from end to end. This may be distinguished from height, which is vertical extent, and width or breadth, which are the distance from side to side, measuring across the object at right angles to the length


(This post was edited by suilenroc on Nov 16, 2008, 9:35 PM)


Lazlo


Nov 16, 2008, 9:33 PM
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Never mind. Leave me out of this. Pitons. Carabiners.

Um. On Belay.


Lazlo


Nov 16, 2008, 9:34 PM
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suilenroc wrote:
here is a better one for those that like to be pricks... hahahSmile

Length is the long dimension of any object. The length of a thing is the distance between its ends, its linear extent as measured from end to end. This may be distinguished from height, which is vertical extent, and width or breadth, which are the distance from side to side, measuring across the object at right angles to the length


Lazlo


Nov 16, 2008, 9:35 PM
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Did I just get back into this?

Climbing.


suilenroc


Nov 16, 2008, 9:37 PM
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Re: [Lazlo] thin horrizontal cracks [In reply to]
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I WAS CONFUSED AS TO WHAT THE OP WAS SAYING AND WRONG ABOUT WIDTH... PBRs and me posting do not go well...Shocked! CLIMBING.

ADD: Ohh, i almost forgot... the reason i asked was i wanted to suggest tricams.Smile


(This post was edited by suilenroc on Nov 16, 2008, 10:48 PM)


Lazlo


Nov 16, 2008, 9:49 PM
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suilenroc wrote:

ADD: Ohh, i almost forgot... the reason i asked was i wanted to suggest tricams.Smile

Really? That thin? (I don't know. I don't own them.)


petsfed


Nov 16, 2008, 9:52 PM
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suilenroc wrote:
here is a better one for those that like to be pricks... hahahSmile

Length is the long dimension of any object. The length of a thing is the distance between its ends, its linear extent as measured from end to end. This may be distinguished from height, which is vertical extent, and width or breadth, which are the distance from side to side, measuring across the object at right angles to the length

So that makes it horizontal how?


suilenroc


Nov 16, 2008, 9:52 PM
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The smallest is about the same size as a rope's "width".


fenderfour


Nov 17, 2008, 8:03 AM
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Lazlo wrote:
pmyche wrote:
"Thin" in aid usually means LA and smaller sizes.

No offense intended, but asking how to climb this thing seems weird. Figuring it out based on what you see from below is sort of the essence of aid, IMO. If you don't feel confident enough in your abilities to do that, maybe a lead on the deck is not the best place to learn.

Cheers.

Well, the thing is, I'm waiting for a chance to get back to the rock (weather window and open weekend) ...and in the meantime I'm also bored at home. Put those two together, and what you get is lots of re-organization of gear and forum posts.

Also, I was thinking knife Blades, but I want to go clean. Maybe hand-placed/hammerless KBs?

I like the cam hook idea.

Hand placing pitons in places where pitons haven't been hammered to shit will be tricky to say the least.

Try a bunch of small cams like WC Zeros and BD C3's. I'm been very happy with trango ballnutz as well.

Inverted cam hooks are scary but can be bomber. Bring along some regular BD hooks (Talon, skyhook, etc) to fill in.

BTW - it's aid climbing the weather should be crappy.


the_climber


Nov 19, 2008, 3:27 PM
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Re: [uni_jim] Re:thin horrizontal cracks [In reply to]
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uni_jim wrote:
inverted cam hooks if you can sink them into the crack.
also small nuts & aliens. Try to avoid pitons if you can.

Sounds like something you read out of a book or mag and quoted.




As to the original question: Pins, Hooks, Ballnuts, micros and thinking outside the box are the approach I take in those situation. What you use for a given placement will be determined by the crack, and by the angle of the crack. For example, if the crack is fairly uniform and oriented downward you could use a combination of hooks, wires, small cams if the orientation is right, hand placed pins or hammered pins. Straight in, same deal. Upward orientation, small cams, ballnuts, pins. Flared and downward, hooks and pins would be the 1st 2 items I would reach for. Straight in and flared I'd likely reach for pins first then small cams, and modified tricams, mayby bashies. Upward and flared, Pins, modified tricams, micro cams, modified hooks/modified cam hooks and "outside the box" thinking.

Of course it all depends on the situation and I'm assuming by your definition of "thin" you're talking #1 or #2 angle and thinner.

For "me" thin KB's/RURP's to small Micros.


yetanotherdave


Nov 21, 2008, 7:37 AM
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no-one's mentioned beaks, but for thin horizontal stuff beaks are the bomb. Hand-placed or a light tap, and then they're like sideways camhooks!

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