|
Lazlo
Nov 17, 2008, 2:59 AM
Post #1 of 32
(7936 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2007
Posts: 5079
|
I have a particular route that I want to establish on aid. There are a few crack sustems to follow, but I also want/need to be able to utilize thin cracks that run horrizontally. They're less than a finger in width. The rock is limestone. The route is vertical to overhanging.
What gear/techniques/tools could help with this situation?
|
|
|
|
|
coastal_climber
Nov 17, 2008, 3:09 AM
Post #2 of 32
(7915 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 17, 2006
Posts: 2542
|
Blue aliens, thin pins. Other than that, experience. Are you doing this solo?
>Cam
|
|
|
|
|
Lazlo
Nov 17, 2008, 3:12 AM
Post #3 of 32
(7907 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2007
Posts: 5079
|
I might be doing it solo, yes.
|
|
|
|
|
nkane
Nov 17, 2008, 3:40 AM
Post #4 of 32
(7881 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 12, 2006
Posts: 143
|
Ballnutz?
|
|
|
|
|
uni_jim
Nov 17, 2008, 3:48 AM
Post #5 of 32
(7861 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 27, 2008
Posts: 429
|
inverted cam hooks if you can sink them into the crack.
also small nuts & aliens. Try to avoid pitons if you can.
(This post was edited by uni_jim on Nov 17, 2008, 3:49 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
patto
Nov 17, 2008, 4:24 AM
Post #6 of 32
(7825 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 15, 2005
Posts: 1453
|
Whats wrong with cams?
|
|
|
|
|
pmyche
Nov 17, 2008, 4:40 AM
Post #7 of 32
(7817 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jan 21, 2004
Posts: 1160
|
|
|
|
|
|
suilenroc
Nov 17, 2008, 4:41 AM
Post #8 of 32
(7815 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 581
|
In reply to: thin cracks that run horrizontally. They're less than a finger in width
So these "horizontal cracks" are basically holes? Width is a horizontal measurement... are you saying that the crack is less than a finger in height?
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Nov 17, 2008, 5:14 AM
Post #9 of 32
(7776 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
suilenroc wrote: In reply to: thin cracks that run horrizontally. They're less than a finger in widthSo these "horizontal cracks" are basically holes? Width is a horizontal measurement... are you saying that the crack is less than a finger in height?
Really? I mean, I'm used to arbitrary measures of certain units, but I've never heard that one.
Let me get you up to speed on how we describe cracks (since clearly you know sweet fuck all about it, and also failed the part of 4th grade science class that explained that height, width, and depth are arbitrary and NOT universal): height describes the distance between the ground and the end of the route (or the distance between the ground and your particular position of the route). Depth is the distance from the surface of the rock to the "bottom" of the crack, in a direction perpendicular to the surface of the rock. Width is the smaller of two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock. Length is the large of the two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock.
If you're gonna be pedantic, at least be right. Otherwise, sweet jesus do you sound like a dumbass.
|
|
|
|
|
Lazlo
Nov 17, 2008, 5:14 AM
Post #10 of 32
(7774 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2007
Posts: 5079
|
pmyche wrote: "Thin" in aid usually means LA and smaller sizes. No offense intended, but asking how to climb this thing seems weird. Figuring it out based on what you see from below is sort of the essence of aid, IMO. If you don't feel confident enough in your abilities to do that, maybe a lead on the deck is not the best place to learn. Cheers.
Well, the thing is, I'm waiting for a chance to get back to the rock (weather window and open weekend) ...and in the meantime I'm also bored at home. Put those two together, and what you get is lots of re-organization of gear and forum posts.
Also, I was thinking knife Blades, but I want to go clean. Maybe hand-placed/hammerless KBs?
I like the cam hook idea.
(This post was edited by Lazlo on Nov 17, 2008, 5:17 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
suilenroc
Nov 17, 2008, 5:22 AM
Post #11 of 32
(7764 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 581
|
In reply to: Really? I mean, I'm used to arbitrary measures of certain units, but I've never heard that one. Let me get you up to speed on how we describe cracks (since clearly you know sweet fuck all about it, and also failed the part of 4th grade science class that explained that height, width, and depth are arbitrary and NOT universal): height describes the distance between the ground and the end of the route (or the distance between the ground and your particular position of the route). Depth is the distance from the surface of the rock to the "bottom" of the crack, in a direction perpendicular to the surface of the rock. Width is the smaller of two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock. Length is the large of the two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock. If you're gonna be pedantic, at least be right. Otherwise, sweet jesus do you sound like a dumbass.
Hahahah  Wow, thanks for your amazing response! Your so cool  . Hey mango, just trying to figure out exactly what the OP was saying... lets let this thread stay on track! ohh, and your wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
currupt4130
Nov 17, 2008, 5:24 AM
Post #12 of 32
(7759 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Feb 7, 2008
Posts: 515
|
petsfed wrote: suilenroc wrote: In reply to: thin cracks that run horrizontally. They're less than a finger in widthSo these "horizontal cracks" are basically holes? Width is a horizontal measurement... are you saying that the crack is less than a finger in height? Really? I mean, I'm used to arbitrary measures of certain units, but I've never heard that one. Let me get you up to speed on how we describe cracks (since clearly you know sweet fuck all about it, and also failed the part of 4th grade science class that explained that height, width, and depth are arbitrary and NOT universal): height describes the distance between the ground and the end of the route (or the distance between the ground and your particular position of the route). Depth is the distance from the surface of the rock to the "bottom" of the crack, in a direction perpendicular to the surface of the rock. Width is the smaller of two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock. Length is the large of the two dimensions that is parallel to the surface of the rock. If you're gonna be pedantic, at least be right. Otherwise, sweet jesus do you sound like a dumbass.
Thank you. I read that and couldn't help laugh. Then I couldn't come up with a way that would satisfactorily rip him a new asshole on how ridiculous his assertion that width is a direct measurement relating to left right, east west, w/e.
|
|
|
|
|
suilenroc
Nov 17, 2008, 5:29 AM
Post #13 of 32
(7750 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 581
|
width
Pronunciation:
\ˈwidth, ˈwitth\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
1wide
Date:
1627
1 : the horizontal measurement taken at right angles to the length
|
|
|
|
|
Lazlo
Nov 17, 2008, 5:31 AM
Post #14 of 32
(7746 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2007
Posts: 5079
|
suilenroc wrote: width Pronunciation: \ˈwidth, ˈwitth\ Function: noun Etymology: 1wide Date: 1627 1 : the horizontal measurement taken at right angles to the length
Now define length.
|
|
|
|
|
suilenroc
Nov 17, 2008, 5:32 AM
Post #15 of 32
(7744 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 581
|
here is a better one for those that like to be pricks... hahah
Length is the long dimension of any object. The length of a thing is the distance between its ends, its linear extent as measured from end to end. This may be distinguished from height, which is vertical extent, and width or breadth, which are the distance from side to side, measuring across the object at right angles to the length
(This post was edited by suilenroc on Nov 17, 2008, 5:35 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
Lazlo
Nov 17, 2008, 5:33 AM
Post #16 of 32
(7741 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2007
Posts: 5079
|
Never mind. Leave me out of this. Pitons. Carabiners.
Um. On Belay.
|
|
|
|
|
Lazlo
Nov 17, 2008, 5:34 AM
Post #17 of 32
(7737 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2007
Posts: 5079
|
suilenroc wrote: here is a better one for those that like to be pricks... hahah Length is the long dimension of any object. The length of a thing is the distance between its ends, its linear extent as measured from end to end. This may be distinguished from height, which is vertical extent, and width or breadth, which are the distance from side to side, measuring across the object at right angles to the length |
|
|
|
|
Lazlo
Nov 17, 2008, 5:35 AM
Post #18 of 32
(7733 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 14, 2007
Posts: 5079
|
Did I just get back into this?
Climbing.
|
|
|
|
|
suilenroc
Nov 17, 2008, 5:37 AM
Post #19 of 32
(7729 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 581
|
I WAS CONFUSED AS TO WHAT THE OP WAS SAYING AND WRONG ABOUT WIDTH... PBRs and me posting do not go well... ! CLIMBING.
ADD: Ohh, i almost forgot... the reason i asked was i wanted to suggest tricams.
(This post was edited by suilenroc on Nov 17, 2008, 6:48 AM)
|
|
|
|
|
petsfed
Nov 17, 2008, 5:52 AM
Post #21 of 32
(7707 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 25, 2002
Posts: 8599
|
suilenroc wrote: here is a better one for those that like to be pricks... hahah Length is the long dimension of any object. The length of a thing is the distance between its ends, its linear extent as measured from end to end. This may be distinguished from height, which is vertical extent, and width or breadth, which are the distance from side to side, measuring across the object at right angles to the length
So that makes it horizontal how?
|
|
|
|
|
suilenroc
Nov 17, 2008, 5:52 AM
Post #22 of 32
(7705 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 13, 2006
Posts: 581
|
The smallest is about the same size as a rope's "width".
|
|
|
|
|
fenderfour
Nov 17, 2008, 4:03 PM
Post #23 of 32
(7647 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Sep 12, 2005
Posts: 177
|
Lazlo wrote: pmyche wrote: "Thin" in aid usually means LA and smaller sizes. No offense intended, but asking how to climb this thing seems weird. Figuring it out based on what you see from below is sort of the essence of aid, IMO. If you don't feel confident enough in your abilities to do that, maybe a lead on the deck is not the best place to learn. Cheers. Well, the thing is, I'm waiting for a chance to get back to the rock (weather window and open weekend) ...and in the meantime I'm also bored at home. Put those two together, and what you get is lots of re-organization of gear and forum posts. Also, I was thinking knife Blades, but I want to go clean. Maybe hand-placed/hammerless KBs? I like the cam hook idea.
Hand placing pitons in places where pitons haven't been hammered to shit will be tricky to say the least.
Try a bunch of small cams like WC Zeros and BD C3's. I'm been very happy with trango ballnutz as well.
Inverted cam hooks are scary but can be bomber. Bring along some regular BD hooks (Talon, skyhook, etc) to fill in.
BTW - it's aid climbing the weather should be crappy.
|
|
|
|
|
the_climber
Nov 19, 2008, 11:27 PM
Post #24 of 32
(7546 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 9, 2003
Posts: 6142
|
uni_jim wrote: inverted cam hooks if you can sink them into the crack. also small nuts & aliens. Try to avoid pitons if you can.
Sounds like something you read out of a book or mag and quoted.
As to the original question: Pins, Hooks, Ballnuts, micros and thinking outside the box are the approach I take in those situation. What you use for a given placement will be determined by the crack, and by the angle of the crack. For example, if the crack is fairly uniform and oriented downward you could use a combination of hooks, wires, small cams if the orientation is right, hand placed pins or hammered pins. Straight in, same deal. Upward orientation, small cams, ballnuts, pins. Flared and downward, hooks and pins would be the 1st 2 items I would reach for. Straight in and flared I'd likely reach for pins first then small cams, and modified tricams, mayby bashies. Upward and flared, Pins, modified tricams, micro cams, modified hooks/modified cam hooks and "outside the box" thinking.
Of course it all depends on the situation and I'm assuming by your definition of "thin" you're talking #1 or #2 angle and thinner.
For "me" thin KB's/RURP's to small Micros.
|
|
|
|
|
yetanotherdave
Nov 21, 2008, 3:37 PM
Post #25 of 32
(7462 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 19, 2005
Posts: 243
|
no-one's mentioned beaks, but for thin horizontal stuff beaks are the bomb. Hand-placed or a light tap, and then they're like sideways camhooks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
