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sungam
Dec 3, 2008, 7:09 AM
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I just thought of a new vote to put in. The 10 wall at roadside.
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tradrenn
Dec 3, 2008, 10:15 AM
Post #52 of 141
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Do Derectisima with High E finish. Superb. What do you think is the most popular route in Ontario ? (I know it sounds ridiculous)
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camhead
Dec 3, 2008, 10:33 AM
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sungam wrote: I just thought of a new vote to put in. The 10 wall at roadside. yore rong.
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shockabuku
Dec 3, 2008, 10:57 AM
Post #54 of 141
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markc wrote: camhead wrote: here are the amount of ascents recorded on rc.com: High Exposure, Gunks: 180 ascents Double Cross, Jtree: 170 Bastille Crack, Eldo: 161 Snake Dike, Yosemite: 101 Five Gallon Buckets, Smith Rock: 101 Roadside Attraction, RRG: 80 The Nose, Yosemite: 52 since it is not possible to search by ascent amount that I know of, does anyone know of routes in the database with bigger numbers than these? To what end? A number of rc.com users don't use the ascent log. A large number of climbers don't use rc.com at all. Any numbers you get are going to be from a very limited sampling of climbers. Even if you consider rc.com to be a relatively good representation of climbers in general, I still think your results aren't going to be very solid. I suspect that some users are more inclined to register their impressive sends rather than easier routes. It's those easy/moderate routes where the big numbers lie. Edit: As an example, Conn's West has a total of 30 ascents logged. I'm sure it's seen that number of climbers on a regular weekend, if not on a busy day. High E is a fun route but not an impressive send.
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Gmburns2000
Dec 3, 2008, 11:10 AM
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shockabuku wrote: markc wrote: camhead wrote: here are the amount of ascents recorded on rc.com: High Exposure, Gunks: 180 ascents Double Cross, Jtree: 170 Bastille Crack, Eldo: 161 Snake Dike, Yosemite: 101 Five Gallon Buckets, Smith Rock: 101 Roadside Attraction, RRG: 80 The Nose, Yosemite: 52 since it is not possible to search by ascent amount that I know of, does anyone know of routes in the database with bigger numbers than these? To what end? A number of rc.com users don't use the ascent log. A large number of climbers don't use rc.com at all. Any numbers you get are going to be from a very limited sampling of climbers. Even if you consider rc.com to be a relatively good representation of climbers in general, I still think your results aren't going to be very solid. I suspect that some users are more inclined to register their impressive sends rather than easier routes. It's those easy/moderate routes where the big numbers lie. Edit: As an example, Conn's West has a total of 30 ascents logged. I'm sure it's seen that number of climbers on a regular weekend, if not on a busy day. High E is a fun route but not an impressive send. For Hans Klaus or everyone who came after him? It'd be an impressive FA with hemp rope and hip belays, but it's not really as exciting as everyone makes it out to be with today's equipment.
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jrathfon
Dec 3, 2008, 11:11 AM
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tradrenn wrote: camhead wrote: here are the amount of ascents recorded on rc.com: High Exposure, Gunks: 180 ascents Double Cross, Jtree: 170 Bastille Crack, Eldo: 161 Snake Dike, Yosemite: 101 Five Gallon Buckets, Smith Rock: 101 Roadside Attraction, RRG: 80 Diedre, Squamish: 68 The Nose, Yosemite: 52 I added Diedre to your list. I think the routes database will be a good indicator, maybe eastern biased, but will give you an idea of the most sent route. Every route will have exclusions of repeats, climber's not logging due to warmups/easy grade, etc. I don't log repeat ascents on rc.com, even though you can. Anyways, interestingly, just browsing the trapps, routes over 100 ascents: High E, 5.6, 180 Horseman, 5.5, 163 Laurel, 5.7, 136 Rhododendron, 5.6, 133 Jackie, 5.5, 132 Ken's Crack, 5.7, 130 Shockley's Ceiling, 5.6, 118 Bunny, 5.4, 116 Frog's Head, 5.6, 115 average is ~ 5.6 also, a large number of people finish up directissima with the last pitch of high E, so maybe the number for high E's glory pitch is more like 180 + 80% * 50 = 220... Routes over 10a with more than 20 ascents: Doubleissima, 10c, 26 Never Never Land, 10a, 35 Erect Direction, 10c, 20 Squiggles Direct, 10b, 20 Phoebe, 10c, 28 P-38, 10b, 24 Nerdie Gerdie, 10a, 20 Red Cabbage Right, 10b, 20 Retribution, 10b, 64 Nosedive, 10b, 62 Even more interesting is that more than 90% of the ascent notes are either TR or hangdong... Routes over 11a with more than 15 ascents: The Sting, 11d, 15.... that's it.
granite_grrl wrote: I see a lot of people list High E and I have to call bullshit. Have you ever been on the High E ledge and seen how long it takes most parties to do "the move". Even experianced people can hang out there for a while getting the guts up to do "the move", you can imagine how long it take the inexperiances leader. Add the even more inexperianced people the inexperianced leader is taking up the climb and you'll see that it takes a while to more people through the climb. Then why does the Nose have a decent number of ascents for an ~ 30 pitch route? I think time and ease is a factor, but a really impressive, inspiring, aesthetic route will draw climbers regardless of commitment.
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jrathfon
Dec 3, 2008, 11:25 AM
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For Hidden Valley at JTree, routes with more than 50 ascents: Double Cross, 5.7, 170 Toe Jam, 5.7, 128 Overhang Bypass, 5.7, 114 The Bong, 5.4, 104 Mike's Books, 5.6, 91 Dogleg, 5.9, 63 Buissonier, 5.7, 62 The Flake, 5.8, 55 North Overhang, 5.9, 55 Weighted Average = 6.87 or a 5.6+
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jrathfon
Dec 3, 2008, 11:28 AM
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The weighted average for the trapps over 100 ascents is 5.79 or a 5.5+ So are the gunk's grades harder? Are the gunks climbers softer? Or is it a reflection of the sample size (1223 ascents vs. 842 for JTree)? Or is it all ballocks?
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jrathfon
Dec 3, 2008, 11:30 AM
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Weighted average = sum(ascents * grade) / sum(ascents)
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dingus
Dec 3, 2008, 11:31 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: For Hans Klaus or everyone who came after him? It'd be an impressive FA with hemp rope and hip belays, but it's not really as exciting as everyone makes it out to be with today's equipment. You meant Kraus, of course! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Kraus Cheers DMT
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Gmburns2000
Dec 3, 2008, 11:35 AM
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dingus wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: For Hans Klaus or everyone who came after him? It'd be an impressive FA with hemp rope and hip belays, but it's not really as exciting as everyone makes it out to be with today's equipment. You meant Kraus, of course! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Kraus Cheers DMT Klaus, Kraus - who's spelling.
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granite_grrl
Dec 3, 2008, 11:38 AM
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jrathfon wrote: granite_grrl wrote: I see a lot of people list High E and I have to call bullshit. Have you ever been on the High E ledge and seen how long it takes most parties to do "the move". Even experianced people can hang out there for a while getting the guts up to do "the move", you can imagine how long it take the inexperiances leader. Add the even more inexperianced people the inexperianced leader is taking up the climb and you'll see that it takes a while to more people through the climb. Then why does the Nose have a decent number of ascents for an ~ 30 pitch route? I think time and ease is a factor, but a really impressive, inspiring, aesthetic route will draw climbers regardless of commitment. I'm saying if you take two areas that are equally busy on the weekends, say the Red and the Gunks, and an easier, popular route at each area, then you'll see a lot more accents in a day for the single pitch bolted line than the multipitch gear route with a intimidating move. This isn't about how many people want to do the line, its about how many times that line can be done in a single day.
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dingus
Dec 3, 2008, 11:41 AM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: dingus wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: For Hans Klaus or everyone who came after him? It'd be an impressive FA with hemp rope and hip belays, but it's not really as exciting as everyone makes it out to be with today's equipment. You meant Kraus, of course! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Kraus Cheers DMT Klaus, Kraus - who's spelling. Fine, be a dumbass. And YOU'RE WELCOME. DMT
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jrathfon
Dec 3, 2008, 11:44 AM
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More info: most popular at Cathedral: Thin Air, 5.6, 89 (shocker, i know) Whitehorse: Standard Route, 5.5, 62 and, bum bum bum, Rumney: Lonesome Dove, 10a, 86 Glory Jean's, 5.6, 81 are the two most popular routes. what's interesting there is that on one hand you have a mega classic, harder than moderate climb with a long hike (in Rumney standard's), compared to an easy, super accessable moderate.
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Gmburns2000
Dec 3, 2008, 11:47 AM
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dingus wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: dingus wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: For Hans Klaus or everyone who came after him? It'd be an impressive FA with hemp rope and hip belays, but it's not really as exciting as everyone makes it out to be with today's equipment. You meant Kraus, of course! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Kraus Cheers DMT Klaus, Kraus - who's spelling. Fine, be a dumbass. And YOU'RE WELCOME. DMT
Must be the lack of exercise.
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jrathfon
Dec 3, 2008, 11:52 AM
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granite_grrl wrote: jrathfon wrote: granite_grrl wrote: I see a lot of people list High E and I have to call bullshit. Have you ever been on the High E ledge and seen how long it takes most parties to do "the move". Even experianced people can hang out there for a while getting the guts up to do "the move", you can imagine how long it take the inexperiances leader. Add the even more inexperianced people the inexperianced leader is taking up the climb and you'll see that it takes a while to more people through the climb. Then why does the Nose have a decent number of ascents for an ~ 30 pitch route? I think time and ease is a factor, but a really impressive, inspiring, aesthetic route will draw climbers regardless of commitment. I'm saying if you take two areas that are equally busy on the weekends, say the Red and the Gunks, and an easier, popular route at each area, then you'll see a lot more accents in a day for the single pitch bolted line than the multipitch gear route with a intimidating move. This isn't about how many people want to do the line, its about how many times that line can be done in a single day. I agree with the fact that a drive up sport route will receive traffic more than even an ordinary gear route (without a scary move). But I disagree that that will rule out the route obtaining most climbed status, 'cause if the route is superb, it's superb, and people will climb it. When I go to a new area, I will climb the route's I've heard of before, over the more obvious/accessable climbs to jump on. I essentially mean, if I was at the Gunk's for the first time, you damn well bet I'm jumping on HighE before Horseman's or Minty's or Three Pines, etc. Likewise, Double Cross or Walk on the Wild Side at JTree, ummm, Lonesome Dove at Rumney, Recombeast at Cathedral, Lotta Balls, Dark Shadows, etc. at Red Rocks.
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granite_grrl
Dec 3, 2008, 11:59 AM
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jrathfon wrote: granite_grrl wrote: jrathfon wrote: granite_grrl wrote: I see a lot of people list High E and I have to call bullshit. Have you ever been on the High E ledge and seen how long it takes most parties to do "the move". Even experianced people can hang out there for a while getting the guts up to do "the move", you can imagine how long it take the inexperiances leader. Add the even more inexperianced people the inexperianced leader is taking up the climb and you'll see that it takes a while to more people through the climb. Then why does the Nose have a decent number of ascents for an ~ 30 pitch route? I think time and ease is a factor, but a really impressive, inspiring, aesthetic route will draw climbers regardless of commitment. I'm saying if you take two areas that are equally busy on the weekends, say the Red and the Gunks, and an easier, popular route at each area, then you'll see a lot more accents in a day for the single pitch bolted line than the multipitch gear route with a intimidating move. This isn't about how many people want to do the line, its about how many times that line can be done in a single day. I agree with the fact that a drive up sport route will receive traffic more than even an ordinary gear route (without a scary move). But I disagree that that will rule out the route obtaining most climbed status, 'cause if the route is superb, it's superb, and people will climb it. When I go to a new area, I will climb the route's I've heard of before, over the more obvious/accessable climbs to jump on. I essentially mean, if I was at the Gunk's for the first time, you damn well bet I'm jumping on HighE before Horseman's or Minty's or Three Pines, etc. Likewise, Double Cross or Walk on the Wild Side at JTree, ummm, Lonesome Dove at Rumney, Recombeast at Cathedral, Lotta Balls, Dark Shadows, etc. at Red Rocks. I would agree that these routes should be done over the 5.9 bolted line at the roadside crag. But this thread isn't about what routes should get done the most, all this thread is about are the simple numbers of people going up a route.
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jrathfon
Dec 3, 2008, 12:18 PM
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Right and I'm saying that I WILL do them, not SHOULD do them, first. Simply, I think if a route has a draw like being legendary, written or talked about all over, it's a super aesthetic line, it's marked 5 stars OR being easy and next to the car, it will receive more sends. The fact that it is less accessable won't obviate it from the most sent list. If it rocks it rocks, regardless of the grade, hike, access, gear, etc. (though low grade, drive up access, bolts, etc. help the tally).
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jrathfon
Dec 3, 2008, 12:21 PM
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And the fact of the matter is High E does have the most sends on the log, despite it having committing moves, a line, takes time, is farther down the carriage road, etc. * Also, a population center nearby helps the tally, like Seneca Rocks is probably hurting on total number of ascents logged compared to an area of equal size, aesthetics, etc, near a city.
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markc
Dec 3, 2008, 12:28 PM
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shockabuku wrote: markc wrote: camhead wrote: here are the amount of ascents recorded on rc.com: High Exposure, Gunks: 180 ascents Double Cross, Jtree: 170 Bastille Crack, Eldo: 161 Snake Dike, Yosemite: 101 Five Gallon Buckets, Smith Rock: 101 Roadside Attraction, RRG: 80 The Nose, Yosemite: 52 since it is not possible to search by ascent amount that I know of, does anyone know of routes in the database with bigger numbers than these? To what end? A number of rc.com users don't use the ascent log. A large number of climbers don't use rc.com at all. Any numbers you get are going to be from a very limited sampling of climbers. Even if you consider rc.com to be a relatively good representation of climbers in general, I still think your results aren't going to be very solid. I suspect that some users are more inclined to register their impressive sends rather than easier routes. It's those easy/moderate routes where the big numbers lie. Edit: As an example, Conn's West has a total of 30 ascents logged. I'm sure it's seen that number of climbers on a regular weekend, if not on a busy day. High E is a fun route but not an impressive send. Okay, let me rephrase to include impressive/classic climbs. I've never climbed at the Gunks, but High E is one of the classics I could list offhand. Ultimately, I'd guess the route in question is a popular warm-up at a sport crag with consistently good weather and a dense population of climbers. I could certainly be wrong in my assumptions.
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drfelatio
Dec 3, 2008, 1:30 PM
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jrathfon wrote: Right and I'm saying that I WILL do them, not SHOULD do them, first. Simply, I think if a route has a draw like being legendary, written or talked about all over, it's a super aesthetic line, it's marked 5 stars OR being easy and next to the car, it will receive more sends. The fact that it is less accessable won't obviate it from the most sent list. If it rocks it rocks, regardless of the grade, hike, access, gear, etc. (though low grade, drive up access, bolts, etc. help the tally). I think you're neglecting the "newb factor." Newbies to the sport either don't know or don't care about a route's prestige, aesthetics, or star rating. They just want to do a route that is easy and accessible. I thought this post was pretty insightful:
whiskeybullets wrote: ...snip... It seems, at least according to sample data from Ky, that ease of climbing trumps quality of the route. In fact, of the top ten routes in the Red, only one is harder than 5.9, and that's only because it's been retrograded from a 5.9+ to 10b. The routes are also graded on a 5 star qulaity rating. Of the top ten, only one is 4 stars, none are 5 stars and most are three stars. Two are even only two start routes, including Mr. Bungle. So in a region with 1885 registered routes, about 50 of which are rated 5 stars or higher, the most popular route is is a 5.8 two star. That might give you a clue as to what to look at nationally for the most climbed route. Given the data from the Red, I'd echo previous suggestions of a popular Gunks line like Horseman, PineLine, HighE, etc.
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dingus
Dec 3, 2008, 2:59 PM
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Gmburns2000 wrote: dingus wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: dingus wrote: Gmburns2000 wrote: For Hans Klaus or everyone who came after him? It'd be an impressive FA with hemp rope and hip belays, but it's not really as exciting as everyone makes it out to be with today's equipment. You meant Kraus, of course! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Kraus Cheers DMT Klaus, Kraus - who's spelling. Fine, be a dumbass. And YOU'RE WELCOME. DMT Must be the lack of exercise. Loyal Dobbins once said something similar. Warrant Hardley agreed. DMT
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onceahardman
Dec 3, 2008, 4:05 PM
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In reply to: What do you think is the most popular route in Ontario ? (I know it sounds ridiculous) Final Finale Direct at Rattlesnake., or, crack #1 and crack #2, to the left, when the "instructors" are out.
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jrathfon
Dec 3, 2008, 4:59 PM
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but if a 5 star 5.6 was by the car, say, in a place like maybe JTree... and still you can't deny that THE most popular route on the RC.com database is high E, not super accessable, has tons of PR, is trad (granted in an all trad area), and isn't just right on the carriage road closest to the parking lot (horseman's).
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jrathfon
Dec 3, 2008, 4:59 PM
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besides i think the most sent route is: PTFTW! with some PANCAKES!
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