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qwert
Dec 12, 2008, 10:02 PM
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Ok, thread title says it.
I got into an avalanche, and rode about 50 meters. i am really bad about judging heigts and distances, so it might be much more, or a bit less.
But anyways, we are very lucky to just walk (or to be more correct hobble) away from it.
I just have a swollen foot, because it got twisted, and lost my glasses and headlamp. My friend is still in hospital, but it seams like it is just a (heavily) bruised hip, and she will walk away from the incident just with the monitary loss of her boots.
Such a beginners mistake. We thought its free of snow, so its should be ok, when we walked up the slope. We where sticking to a snow free ridge, and since it was easier to walk, we stayed a bit to the side of it, but since every step that broke through the snow, was hitting rocks, we thought that we were save, or we didint think at all, i dont know.
I should have known better.
I am not entirely shure why i am posting that, but i gues the take home message here is: avalanches are fuckin serious bussines! just that there is not much snow all around, does not necceserily mean that it is all clear!
Maybe this message does help some folks? Seems like i learned the hard way, maybe someone reads this, and does not have to learn it like taht? Next thing probably is that i take some more avalanche courses, and get that information really into my system. Albeit im quite ok, that was too fuckin close 
Other stuff: anyone has some advice, apart from learning more about avalanches, and actually doing the learned stuff?
Guess i do quite take a lot, but somehow i just want to make shure that i dont develop a winter phobia or something ...
qwert
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blondgecko
Moderator
Dec 12, 2008, 10:07 PM
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Ouch! Glad to hear you made it out ok.
Anyway, moving from Campground to A&IA.
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blondgecko
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Dec 12, 2008, 10:25 PM
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I'd go with smirnoff, myself (mixed with orange or cranberry juice).
I think it's close enough to go here.
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qwert
Dec 12, 2008, 10:52 PM
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notapplicable wrote: qwert wrote: Just sitting here, and not knowing wether should call today a really good or a bad day. qwert Oh today was a good day for sure. A valuable lesson was learned and everyone came out in one piece, it doesn't get much better than that.
But yes, it is great that we both are quite well still.
The feeling of simply tumbling in all directions, with stones crushing under you, and snow trying to fill your mouth was really not good at all.
but then stoping at the surface, and actually getting a response when calling for your friend is really amazing.
qwert
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epoch
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Dec 13, 2008, 1:14 AM
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Whoa.
It's good to hear that you were able to walk away from this one.
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hafilax
Dec 13, 2008, 1:44 AM
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A thin, variable snow pack can be very unstable especially in the sun. The rocks heat up much faster than the snow and the snow will weaken around them.
It sounds like you were caught in a terrain trap type situation where small avalanches can have big consequences due to the terrain.
If you plan on spending any time in avalanche terrain it's best to take a recreational avalanche safety course.
The book How to stay alive in avalanche terrain is often recommended although I haven't read it myself.
I just bought The Thin Line which is a pretty good video on the subject although it's a bit heavy on the scare factor for my liking. It does cover many of the basics and has a few case studies. It's more backcountry skiing oriented.
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moose_droppings
Dec 13, 2008, 3:14 AM
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Wow, what a scary ride. Glad to here you and your partner came out on top. Second chances are great opportunities.
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dan2see
Dec 13, 2008, 4:02 AM
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qwert wrote: ...I am not entirely shure why i am posting that, but i gues the take home message here is: avalanches are fuckin serious bussines! just that there is not much snow all around, does not necceserily mean that it is all clear! ...
I am not entirely sure why I read your posts. Language is a f..n serious business. Just because you use emphatic words, does not necessarily mean that I take you seriously.
I wrote you a while ago, asking you to choose a more appropriate sig.
Oh well, if you manage your hikes like you manage your posts, I guess you'll walk into more troubles.
Winter is just starting.
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shockabuku
Dec 13, 2008, 5:16 AM
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Scary. Congratulations on your survival.
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shockabuku
Dec 13, 2008, 5:28 AM
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I always worried that if I got caught in an avalanche and they came looking for me with probes that someone would stick the probe through my eye.
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notapplicable
Dec 13, 2008, 6:22 AM
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dan2see wrote: qwert wrote: ...I am not entirely shure why i am posting that, but i gues the take home message here is: avalanches are fuckin serious bussines! just that there is not much snow all around, does not necceserily mean that it is all clear! ... I am not entirely sure why I read your posts. Language is a f..n serious business. Just because you use emphatic words, does not necessarily mean that I take you seriously. I wrote you a while ago, asking you to choose a more appropriate sig. Oh well, if you manage your hikes like you manage your posts, I guess you'll walk into more troubles. Winter is just starting.
No need to be an ass Dan, english is not everyones first language.
Oh and Qwert don't change that sig man. Its just so inanely crass and bizarre that I can't help but smile everytime I read it...
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blondgecko
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Dec 13, 2008, 8:30 AM
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dan2see wrote: qwert wrote: ...I am not entirely shure why i am posting that, but i gues the take home message here is: avalanches are fuckin serious bussines! just that there is not much snow all around, does not necceserily mean that it is all clear! ... I am not entirely sure why I read your posts. Language is a f..n serious business. Just because you use emphatic words, does not necessarily mean that I take you seriously. I wrote you a while ago, asking you to choose a more appropriate sig. Oh well, if you manage your hikes like you manage your posts, I guess you'll walk into more troubles. Winter is just starting.
There's a time and a place. This is neither.
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qwert
Dec 13, 2008, 10:16 AM
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dan2see wrote: qwert wrote: ...I am not entirely shure why i am posting that, but i gues the take home message here is: avalanches are fuckin serious bussines! just that there is not much snow all around, does not necceserily mean that it is all clear! ... I am not entirely sure why I read your posts. Language is a f..n serious business. Just because you use emphatic words, does not necessarily mean that I take you seriously. I wrote you a while ago, asking you to choose a more appropriate sig. Oh well, if you manage your hikes like you manage your posts, I guess you'll walk into more troubles. Winter is just starting.
And speaking of appropriate stuff: http://www.rockclimbing.com/...ost=1736087;#1736087
It is just the same. Personally i dont mind. If you are feeling fine with that, good for you. Do i like it? No, but i just choose to read over it, and go on with my bussiness. Because of this i see you neither as a worse or better person. But the above quote however
And yes, english is not my first language.
Back to topic:
I have had some avalanche courses, and read books on it, and every year im training searching with my friends, so its not that i am totally uneducated on the subject. I guess that makes it even worse  I should have known better!
But as i said, it was this stupid "there is almost no snow at all, so its ok" feeling.
I guess part of the problem is that alle of the avalanche stuff in germany is based on the warning level by the avalanche forecast. Of course one can get into very complicated and detailed stuff from there on, but it boils down to stuff like: If you want to go low risk, then from level 3 on, avoid steep slopes, north slopes, and filled gullys.
And i dont have any forecast here, to help me.
Seems like i know quite a bit, but not enough.
qwert
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dan2see
Dec 13, 2008, 1:59 PM
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notapplicable wrote: ...No need to be an ass Dan, english is not everyones first language...
OK you're right, NA.
In the city where I live, I'm surrounded by dirty mouths and guys who think that spelling is for sissies. Living in Canada, we get a constant stream of "new Canadians" who impose their own poor culture on us, for the sake of being cool.
But I love language, and social interaction, and getting along. So you can see that I've been frustrated by this cultural crap for a lot of years.
The reason I got angry with Qwert is because his cultural crap is his deliberate choice.
Nobody forgets that RC.com is a forum about climbing and climbers. But some of us forget that it's also a public forum.
That's my rant!
So now I promise it stop being an ass about language, and continue to enjoy all the posts about climbing. And when anybody writes crap, I'll bite my tongue and move on.
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8flood8
Dec 13, 2008, 2:24 PM
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qwert wrote: Just sitting here, and not knowing wether should call today a really good or a bad day. qwert
The real question that belies this answer is: "Did you have to use your AK?"
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dingus
Dec 13, 2008, 2:42 PM
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So Qwert....
what happened? You didn't really describe the avi at all... and I'm guessing you're more avi-savy (haha) than 99% of the posters on this board.
THAT should be a sobering thought - to the 99.
DMT
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qwert
Dec 13, 2008, 3:05 PM
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dingus wrote: So Qwert.... what happened? You didn't really describe the avi at all... and I'm guessing you're more avi-savy (haha) than 99% of the posters on this board. THAT should be a sobering thought - to the 99. DMT
The avalanche itself was a snowslab, and it seems like we triggered it ourself. we could actually hear it breaking, and then saw the cracks, as it started to move. A fascinating and totally horrifying feeling.
It maybe was just 10 meters wide, but we traveled quite a bit with it. we ended up lower than the point we started from 10 to 15 minutes before.
We were folowing a snow free ridge, but walking a bit of the side of it, but most steps where breaking through, and getting on stones.
Without snow, the slope is a really coarse blockfield, so i asuumed it would be coarse enough to hold the snow. Seems like i was wrong.
Judging from the sounds and the smell (and my friends back), the whole blockfield simply got into the avalanche to. I heard stones crushing all around me, and smelled that tipical stone-hitting-stone smell.
qwert
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dingus
Dec 13, 2008, 3:33 PM
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Wow yall were really lucky! No other term for it really. Good that you posted it here.
DMT
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k.l.k
Dec 13, 2008, 3:36 PM
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Very scary. Most of the folks I know who spend enough time in the backcountry eventually have a close call. I've been lucky (probably because I gave up skiing years ago). Glad to hear you got away comparatively clean.
The number of exceptionally skilled and experienced folks who get killed in avvies is enough to show that there is always going to be a bit of chance involved.
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qwert
Dec 13, 2008, 3:40 PM
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dingus wrote: Wow yall were really lucky! No other term for it really. Good that you posted it here. DMT
I always thought avalanches are way underrated, especially if you look at all those pretty picture freeride skiing/boarding magazines and videos.
I always thought that this is a bad thing, and now that i have experienced it myself i think more so.
I dont want to be a fun stopping preacher, but you need some special skills, if you want to go out in winter.
And i do definetely need more of those special skills!
qwert
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dan2see
Dec 13, 2008, 4:01 PM
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qwert wrote: ...The avalanche itself was a snowslab, and it seems like we triggered it ourself. we could actually hear it breaking, and then saw the cracks, as it started to move. A fascinating and totally horrifying feeling. ,...
I know what it feels like, to be on the brink of deadly danger. So far I'm lucky, and I when I walk away from this I tend to laugh at the fates.
Thanks, Qwert, for the realistic description. It's an objective reminder to pay attention, and be prepared.
If you can read my sig, you'll know that my thanks is real.
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h4lf_rope
Dec 13, 2008, 7:50 PM
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Have you ever lost a student this way? Have you ever wanted to?
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