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X-mas present to self: Protraxion or Wall-hauler?
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shimanilami


Dec 22, 2008, 9:37 AM
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X-mas present to self: Protraxion or Wall-hauler?
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I've been borrowing a Protraxion and figure it's time to get my own hauler. I like the simplicity of the Protraxion, but hear that the bigger diameter of the Wall-hauler is a plus. I've also got a Petzl Croll that goes unused. I suppose I could mate it with a big pulley.

Recommendations?


brutusofwyde


Dec 22, 2008, 11:11 AM
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Re: [shimanilami] X-mas present to self: Protraxion or Wall-hauler? [In reply to]
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Wall hauler must be unclipped to set it up. Protraxion can have the rope placed in it without unclipping it.

For fumble-fingered, numb-tingly-wall-hands me, big difference.

Brutu


Partner pbcowboy77


Dec 22, 2008, 2:28 PM
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Re: [shimanilami] X-mas present to self: Protraxion or Wall-hauler? [In reply to]
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Kong block roll.



It's the best haul device.



Zac


Partner holdplease2


Dec 22, 2008, 8:25 PM
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Re: [shimanilami] X-mas present to self: Protraxion or Wall-hauler? [In reply to]
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Look at the load rating on the wall hauler. If your hauling a massive load and you get any bounce in it, its terrifying to watch the little fold of metal that the cam pushes the rope against flex. With enough force, the cam lobe will push all the way through. Its something like 2 KN.

Used one on a winter ascent party of 3 and it was horrifying.

Why were we using it?

Because one of our party had a protraxion explode when it torqued sideways and they were using a live counterweight. NOT good.

For your gift to yourself get a Petzl Krol and a Swiftwater pulley (sealed bearings, prussik minding if you need it) Its a way more versitile system and can make a nice addition for use in a 3:1 if you climb with a partner and end up using their hauling device.

But if your super-sold on Protrax or Wall Hauler, its protrax hands down. Just make sure it has some degree of movement...not clipped directly into a bolt. Put a few biners in, hang it from a powerpoint, whatever you have to do to make sure it doesn't get torqued sideways.

-Kate.


ptlong


Dec 23, 2008, 11:00 AM
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Re: [shimanilami] X-mas present to self: Protraxion or Wall-hauler? [In reply to]
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shimanilami wrote:
I like the simplicity of the Protraxion, but hear that the bigger diameter of the Wall-hauler is a plus.

Is the sheave diameter of the wall hauler really that much bigger than the pro trax's? They look very similar to me. I did a side by side comparison recently and came to the conclusion that the pro trax was easier to haul with. This might be due to the fact that the wall hauler has a bushing (ours was old) whereas the pro trax (brand new) uses sealed bearings.

I think neither are very well engineered.

For "normal" loads it probably doesn't matter too much. Don't neglect to back them up effectively.


shimanilami


Dec 23, 2008, 11:23 AM
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Re: [holdplease2] X-mas present to self: Protraxion or Wall-hauler? [In reply to]
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Thanks, PBCowboy77. I believe that the Kong Block is a sweet hauler. It just seems so big and inelegant to me. It does not appeal.

Thanks, Kate. I've read enough accounts of Protraxions exploding to be concerned. That's scary stuff. I already have a Croll that I rarely use. It sounds like mating it with a nice pulley will be safest, cheapest and most versatile set up.

One question - I don't understand the sideplates are helpful with "prussick minding". Is it simply that they are squared off?

Another noobish question (from someone who has never used an ascender this way because he's always had a Protraxion), I hang the Croll from a sling/draw attached to the same [power]point as the pulley, but not from the same 'biner, right?

Finally, are you recommending the Swiftwater Pulley specifically? It looks nice, but lots of pulleys look nice online.


Partner holdplease2


Dec 23, 2008, 11:48 AM
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Re: [shimanilami] X-mas present to self: Protraxion or Wall-hauler? [In reply to]
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Hi:

Regarding Prussik Minding: Yes, the squared off edges actually grab the prussik and keep it from being sucked up over the wheel.

Regarding Swiftwater: This is the pulley recommended to me by John Yates. It has sealed bearings, is very efficient, is swing-sided, rated for rescue loads, and has a sheave that is bigger than the Protrax or wall hauler, and about the same size as the Kong Block Roll. A nice slightly bigger pulley that isn't an obtrusive monster. I have two and use them for my 2:1 ratchet.

You want to get a nice big locker. This locker will go directly through the hole in the pulley and also directly through a tied sling on the top of your Kroll. You want the Kroll to position just below the body of the pulley. You will want to weight the bottom hole of the Kroll with a small water bottle, biner of pins, whatever, to keep it weighted while you haul.

Rather than popping the locker on this setup directly into a bolt or powerpoint, stop for a minute and figure out how it will be oriented. You want the slack rope coming out of the top of the pulley and pointing at you. Having the rig turn every time you try to haul is inefficient.

Hope this helps,

-Kate.


shimanilami


Dec 23, 2008, 12:01 PM
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Re: [holdplease2] X-mas present to self: Protraxion or Wall-hauler? [In reply to]
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Thanks, Kate. I think I'm set.


shimanilami


Feb 23, 2009, 12:53 PM
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Hi all,

So I got my Swiftwater pulleys (sweet!) and croll. I'm nearly set, but have one remaining question.

I've read that a Frost draw should be used for the croll in order to minimize stretch and CF. But Frost draws aren't full strength, and it sketches me out a bit to think I'll be hanging a huge pig off of something only rated to 10kN. Admittedly, I don't plan on hauling 2000lbs any time soon, but still ...

So does it matter that they're not full strength? Is the benefit they provide even noticeable? Ultimately, what is the best method, in your opinion?


coolcat83


Feb 23, 2009, 12:59 PM
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Re: [shimanilami] X-mas present to self: Protraxion or Wall-hauler? [In reply to]
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shimanilami wrote:
Hi all,

So I got my Swiftwater pulleys (sweet!) and croll. I'm nearly set, but have one remaining question.

I've read that a Frost draw should be used for the croll in order to minimize stretch and CF. But Frost draws aren't full strength, and it sketches me out a bit to think I'll be hanging a huge pig off of something only rated to 10kN. Admittedly, I don't plan on hauling 2000lbs any time soon, but still ...

So does it matter that they're not full strength? Is the benefit they provide even noticeable? Ultimately, what is the best method, in your opinion?

10kn is pretty strong, if you are that worried then double up on them, it't not like they are made of lead


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