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tx88


Dec 24, 2008, 11:34 PM
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Access Issue  (North_America: United_States: Texas: South_Central_Texas: Bottle_Cap)
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Does anyone know if this cave is on public land?

The gully that accesses the cave runs within 20 feet of a fairly new looking house. As my friends and I scrambled down the gully today, Christmas eve, we were met with warm holiday cheer when the house owner went berserk screaming and yelling that we were on his land and he had the cops on the way. All of this before ever talking to us, instant insanity. No amount of reasoning or explanation calmed him down. I am highly skeptical that the gully and the cave lie within his property line but I don't know for sure.

Anyone still looking to climb here I suggest entering the gully from behind the business's and traversing across to the cave to avoid dealing with the hostile land owner.


Tree_wrangler


Dec 25, 2008, 11:46 AM
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Re: [tx88] Access Issue [In reply to]
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You should be able to get ahold of a (plat?) map from the county/city/etc. which will clearly outline where the boundaries are. You'd be suprised at how many landowners have no idea where their property line really is and arbitrarily define it where they think they want it. If you've got the time, it might be worth checking out.

Particularly given the landowners reaction. It would be quite the pleasure to trot out a plat map and show him that where you go near his property is none of his business, even if it is 4" outside the line. If he owns the access (or worse, the cave), then you're screwed.


socalclimber


Dec 25, 2008, 3:32 PM
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Re: [tx88] Access Issue [In reply to]
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Go to your local town/city hall and make sure to have the address of the house, this will get you the APN number. Then, for a few dollars you can request a parcel map. That should give you the boundries. Also, you can get the deed to the property. It should all be public record.

Good luck.


Bats


Dec 25, 2008, 6:11 PM
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Re: [tx88] Access Issue [In reply to]
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As someone who grew up in rural Texas...its more than likely it his. Texas has more private land than public land. Think of the old ranches. They have been downsized, but still have a large hold, like XIT & King. At least he did not take a shot at you, like the guy did at us kids when we were cutting through on his private road. He might had bad experiences from climbers or cavers or high school kids, and he does have a right to protect his property. Go to the county offices if you can. Even check some counties are on the internet with the county tax assesor office.


justroberto


Dec 27, 2008, 10:38 PM
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Re: [tx88] Access Issue [In reply to]
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It looks like if you park in the big lot and walk directly from the corner of the parking space closest to Bottle Cap, you don't cross his property. I'll have to overlay the plat map with the coords of the crag, but you should be fine. You park on the corporate lot, which is, of course, private. Then you cross over a sliver of land that I can't really figure out the ownership of. Then you cross over what appears to be another sliver of a parcel or some sort of easement. The rock is owned by the R.P. Municipal Utility, which may or may not be permissive of such activities. It appears the residential lot is close to, but not over the path you would travel.

Tomorrow I'll try to overlay the plat with my gps coords of the rock/path and then roll out there to see what I can figure out. If it's been recently built on, maybe there will still be some boundary flags. Considering the residential lot in question is valued at close to $1 mil(lord only knows why), I could see how the dude would be angry, whether it's justified or not.


(This post was edited by justroberto on Dec 27, 2008, 10:41 PM)


tx88


Dec 27, 2008, 11:13 PM
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Re: [justroberto] Access Issue [In reply to]
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Thanks, I appreciate the help. I want to respect the man's property so long as it's his property but if it is indeed under the municipalities ownership then to hell with the lot owner.

I've been searching Travis counties database and have found plat's of nearby subdivisions but not the actual lot in question...If you can prove him wrong that would be great.

In regards to the property stakes I don't recall seeing any when I was out there. However, while doing research I came across the house on google maps and the image clearly shows his property stakes.

http://maps.google.com/...esnum=1&ct=title

Just follow the link and click on street view under address.


justroberto


Dec 27, 2008, 11:35 PM
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Re: [tx88] Access Issue [In reply to]
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No problem. It looks like the two slivers of property you cross are parts of the corporate lots that are designed to give them minimal frontage on the road. Were those landowners to indicate no tresspassing, then you'd have a problem. My viewer for the city just decided to go on the fritz, so I'm kind of stuck for the moment, but I'll have to go into work to do the overlay anyways, so i'll do a little more research then. Are you interested in rolling out there tomorrow?


tx88


Dec 28, 2008, 12:32 AM
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Re: [justroberto] Access Issue [In reply to]
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I might be able to make it, shoot me a message and let me know when you're heading out there.


justroberto


Dec 28, 2008, 5:47 PM
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Re: [tx88] Access Issue [In reply to]
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So, I rolled out there just before sundown to check it out. If you parked in one of the two spaces next to the house (the rightmost house of maybe 20 in a row), you were tresspassing. Definitely park in the office complex Building 1 lot that you hit before you get to the residences. I'm having trouble finding info regarding the Greenbelt, but we'll figure it out eventually. I'll also try to find out the agreement with the city for the 360 Barton Springs access, since this seems to be a similar situation.

On a side note, I drove through the development after I was done scoping out the cave. That place is scary. When I got home, I read through the HOA rules & guidelines, and it became even more so. After sundown, you can't even park your car(s) in the driveway - it (or they) has to be in the garage. I love it how the prestige of these developments is based on two things: how big and overly valuated the houses are and how many rules there are to protect the land values.

Just goes to show that many people have more money than sense.


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