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a-e-jones


Dec 29, 2008, 1:24 PM
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chalk versus resin
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so until i moved over to france in september i've always considered resin to be worse for the rock then chalk but now that i'm here its the only think i can find and the "locals" swear that its better then chalk due to "chemical reactions" (which they can't tell me what happens when chalk touches their precious sandstone) so after a quick search i wasn't able to come up with anything other then "dont use it because its bad for the rock" can someone please tell me what excatly happens when you use resin on limestone/granite or any sandstone in north america, and what happens when you use chalk on any sandstone or limestone in france

my limited experience is that resin quickly makes the rock glassy and tough to clean while chalk washes off with just a bit of water and a pat with a t-shirt so it seams that the locals are just stuck in there old ways


sungam


Dec 29, 2008, 1:39 PM
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Re: [a-e-jones] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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I think the main issues are people not washing off the chalk and the holds getting gunked out and slick, in addition to the combination of POF and chalk, which gets slick. POF on it's own is claimed to not make the rock slick. All this info is on the official fontableu site for which I have no link.


a-e-jones


Dec 29, 2008, 1:54 PM
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Re: [sungam] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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ya i've been poking around the bleau.info website but i still can't find any mention of it


IclimbNAKED


Dec 29, 2008, 2:00 PM
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Re: [a-e-jones] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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There's a reason pof is almost ubiquitously prohibited. It apparently gums up the rock and the only way to achieve friction is to use more pof.

While excessive chalk can also gum up the rock and make it slick and "greasy," it is nonetheless a hygroscopic salt and will absorb water. From my experience, it appears to become suspended in water, not dissolving, but it can easily be washed away.

I've never climbed with pof, and I'm sure there are justifications people might present to advocate its use; however, chalk seems like a less destructive and more widely accepted method for keeping one's friction with respect to the rock high enough to stay on.

"When in Rome..." Just use the pof while in Fontainebleau, but chalk elsewhere; they might be stuck in an old way, but I guarantee you'll get less flack for being one of the thousands who contributes to (what we perceive as) the problem with pof, rather than trying to introduce chalk as the new convention...


a-e-jones


Dec 29, 2008, 2:09 PM
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Re: [IclimbNAKED] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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thank you very much

now any advocates for pof online?


sungam


Dec 29, 2008, 2:22 PM
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Re: [a-e-jones] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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A google search for font pof chalk brought up this:
http://bleau.info/cleanup/magnesium.html


johnwesely


Dec 29, 2008, 4:07 PM
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Re: [a-e-jones] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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I have always heard that resin permanently polishes the rock, and that most of the classic problems at Font were ruined from its use.


a-e-jones


Dec 29, 2008, 4:13 PM
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Re: [johnwesely] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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ya i've been working on some projects wiht the locals in a new area and over the last 3 months (area was opened up oct) iv'e noticed the rock severely glassing up from what i look at as minimal pof use

while on that note there is a family who has a couple of boulders in there backyard and have only used chalk on them and they are in MUCH better shape and been climbed on years longer then the previously mentioned pebbles

and i just had a conversation wiht a frenchie about using pof at the gym, apparently they dont use it because it'll cake on and smooth out over the texture of there holds, maybe the gym rats here can start a revolution


curt


Dec 29, 2008, 5:39 PM
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Re: [IclimbNAKED] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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IclimbNAKED wrote:
"When in Rome..." Just use the pof while in Fontainebleau, but chalk elsewhere; they might be stuck in an old way, but I guarantee you'll get less flack for being one of the thousands who contributes to (what we perceive as) the problem with pof, rather than trying to introduce chalk as the new convention...

Except that even most climbers at Bleau no longer use pof, they use chalk instead--and this is universally true on all of the harder problems found there. All but the most retarded Frenchies now realize just how bad pof is for the rock. I saw some absolutely beauitiul problems at 95.2 utterly destroyed by the use of pof. What a shame.

Curt


rockie


Dec 29, 2008, 5:51 PM
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Re: [curt] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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Good to know. I never heard of resin before for climbing.


Partner angry


Dec 29, 2008, 10:41 PM
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Re: [a-e-jones] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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a-e-jones wrote:
can someone please tell me what excatly happens when you use resin on limestone/granite or any sandstone in north america,

You get your ass kicked.


a-e-jones


Dec 30, 2008, 6:17 AM
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Re: [curt] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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most locals i've met only use pof

i guess most of the locals are retarded


curt


Dec 30, 2008, 6:09 PM
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Re: [a-e-jones] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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a-e-jones wrote:
most locals i've met only use pof

i guess most of the locals are retarded

Maybe they're just weakmos. Are they doing the black circuits or the harder individual white problems? I bet not.

Curt


ghisino


Jan 1, 2009, 6:08 AM
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Re: [curt] chalk versus resin [In reply to]
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curt wrote:
a-e-jones wrote:
most locals i've met only use pof

i guess most of the locals are retarded

Maybe they're just weakmos. Are they doing the black circuits or the harder individual white problems? I bet not.

Curt

+1

also, a personal story on pof.

when I started climbing 10 yrs ago, I've read something about bleau and pof being used there, and tried to make my own : simply taking resin from a tree, drying it and crushing it.

at first it seems to really work, expecially on unusual surfaces : I used to "train" climbing a wooden window frame and it was amazing on that.

but after you use it for a while on the same surface (the door frame in my case) you start to notice odd deposits that are very hard to remove.

I stopped because my mother was complaining, before reading why pof is bad on rock as well :D

basically pof glues to whatever surface it is used on (and works as an adhesive powder, not as a drying one).
When used over rock, it fills the pores and makes it slick and glassy much faster than anything else-in comparison, standard handhold and foothold polishing takes a more time.





btw the main reason why some bleau locals are still pro-pof is a sort of subculture.
they identify chalk with strangers, expecially brits ("roastbeefs" as they call 'em).
So, since some of them locals don't like strangers, they don't like the white traces as well and fight their anti-chalk crusade.
In the most extreme form of this, they also keep using and defending pof with questionable arguments :
"it is natural" (false, the resin is treated in chemical factories before getting on the market)
"it will eventually dry with the sun and fall down" (could be, but takes years and requres tha no one adds new pof anyway)
"it doeas damage every rock type on the world excluding fontainebleau "grés" sandstone" (odd...and why for instance shoud it be bad on other sandstones, if this is true for fontainebleau? Why people in other sandstone areas will kill you if you use pof?)


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