|
randyb
Dec 31, 2008, 4:01 PM
Post #1 of 24
(13533 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 49
|
I don't have many details yet, but apparently a climber fell in the central Garden Yesterday...
http://www.gazette.com/articles/sievers_45559___article.html/garden_rock.html
|
|
|
|
|
anykineclimb
Dec 31, 2008, 4:08 PM
Post #2 of 24
(13516 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 3593
|
In reply to: Climber falls at Garden of the Gods Comments 2 | Recommend 0 December 30, 2008 - 7:21 PM THE GAZETTE A man who was rock climbing with a partner in central Garden of the Gods Tuesday afternoon fell about 50 feet into a crevasse, said Lt. Jeff Sievers of the Colorado Springs Fire Department. The man, whose name and age was not available, was rescued by firefighters and airlifted to Penrose Hospital, Sievers said. His condition was not available. Sievers said the man was using ropes and it's unknown if the fall occurred because of equipment failure or human error. The man fell about 3:30 p.m. from a rock formation just south of Kissing Camels, he said.
I'm guessing drug wall? Thats the only area where theres a "crevasse".
|
|
|
|
|
wonderwoman
Dec 31, 2008, 4:11 PM
Post #3 of 24
(13509 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Dec 14, 2002
Posts: 4275
|
Made clicky.
Wonderwoman is moving this to Accident and Incidents forum.
(This post was edited by wonderwoman on Dec 31, 2008, 4:12 PM)
|
|
|
|
|
Gmburns2000
Dec 31, 2008, 4:14 PM
Post #4 of 24
(13491 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 6, 2007
Posts: 15266
|
anykineclimb wrote: In reply to: Climber falls at Garden of the Gods Comments 2 | Recommend 0 December 30, 2008 - 7:21 PM THE GAZETTE A man who was rock climbing with a partner in central Garden of the Gods Tuesday afternoon fell about 50 feet into a crevasse, said Lt. Jeff Sievers of the Colorado Springs Fire Department. The man, whose name and age was not available, was rescued by firefighters and airlifted to Penrose Hospital, Sievers said. His condition was not available. Sievers said the man was using ropes and it's unknown if the fall occurred because of equipment failure or human error. The man fell about 3:30 p.m. from a rock formation just south of Kissing Camels, he said. I'm guessing drug wall? Thats the only area where theres a "crevasse".
Is there not a cravasse on the other side of West Point Crack? Just asking. I can't remember what it looked like on the other side.
|
|
|
|
|
randyb
Dec 31, 2008, 4:16 PM
Post #5 of 24
(13488 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 49
|
I was thinking maybe he was trying that jump between white spire and Red twin and fell there. I am not sure where there would be a 50 foot fall on the drug wall...unless he was above silver spoon
|
|
|
|
|
randyb
Dec 31, 2008, 4:18 PM
Post #6 of 24
(13484 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 49
|
I think so. West Point crack pitch 2 may have one... the crack gets really wide up high.
|
|
|
|
|
anykineclimb
Dec 31, 2008, 4:36 PM
Post #7 of 24
(13432 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Mar 30, 2003
Posts: 3593
|
I just got some info that it was on the Practice Slab. the SINGLE ANCHOR he was lowering from failed.
more info as I get it.
|
|
|
|
|
randyb
Dec 31, 2008, 4:43 PM
Post #9 of 24
(13407 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 49
|
Definately looks like practice slab... I thought there where like three bolts up there with chains..
|
|
|
|
|
randyb
Jan 1, 2009, 7:28 PM
Post #11 of 24
(13198 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 49
|
Crazy... thanks for the link. Stewart was quick to get out there and report his findings. I had seen that bent eye bolt and never would have even considered using it when there are 3 new bolts right there. I have always brought my cordalett and equalized the anchor. There is rope drag if you don't extend it a little anyway. SO glad to hear this fella will recover. Hope the best for him.
|
|
|
|
|
jmeizis
Jan 1, 2009, 7:59 PM
Post #12 of 24
(13167 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 635
|
Yeah, I heard about that yesterday. I don't know why of two new bolts you would choose just one of the crappy old bent ones. They're sticking out of the rock and obviously not in good condition. That's too bad, sounds like he's gonna be ok though.
|
|
|
|
|
clee03m
Jan 3, 2009, 4:34 AM
Post #13 of 24
(13032 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 29, 2004
Posts: 785
|
Thanks for the link.
|
|
|
|
|
socalclimber
Jan 4, 2009, 11:54 AM
Post #14 of 24
(12924 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 2437
|
Quoted from the article on facebook:
"We left the old anchors in so a climber could clip a daisy chain into them while arranging an equalized anchor with the three new bolts and for their historic value."
I must confess, I'm a tad distressed by this statement. Could someone please explain to me why on earth you would leave old time bombs in after replacing them with new bolts for "historical value".
It sounds to me this is a low angle slab. Why would you need a bolt to "clip a daisy chain into"?
There is some very flawed thinking on behalf the "author" of the article on facebook.
If you're gonna replace bolts, TAKE OUT THE OLD ONES.
|
|
|
|
|
mojomonkey
Jan 4, 2009, 2:13 PM
Post #15 of 24
(12903 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 13, 2006
Posts: 869
|
socalclimber wrote: Quoted from the article on facebook: "We left the old anchors in so a climber could clip a daisy chain into them while arranging an equalized anchor with the three new bolts and for their historic value." I must confess, I'm a tad distressed by this statement. Could someone please explain to me why on earth you would leave old time bombs in after replacing them with new bolts for "historical value". It sounds to me this is a low angle slab. Why would you need a bolt to "clip a daisy chain into"? There is some very flawed thinking on behalf the "author" of the article on facebook. If you're gonna replace bolts, TAKE OUT THE OLD ONES.
I wondered the same thing - If they were bad, why would you want anyone to daisy into them? I assume they are cleaning with a daisy, meaning at some point they will be completely dependent on these bolts that needed to be repaired as they rethread the rope for rappel or lowering.
|
|
|
|
|
socalclimber
Jan 4, 2009, 3:40 PM
Post #16 of 24
(12868 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 2437
|
Yes, there does appear to be some "interesting logic".
|
|
|
|
|
j_ung
Jan 5, 2009, 6:26 PM
Post #17 of 24
(12679 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 21, 2003
Posts: 18690
|
I absolutely agree. I've heard of blots being left for historical value, but I've never done it, and I don't think I will.
|
|
|
|
|
socalclimber
Jan 5, 2009, 6:43 PM
Post #18 of 24
(12660 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 2437
|
It makes absolutely no sense. The only historical value is on the mantle of your fire place, or with some place that has a "museum".
Bummer someone fucked themselves, but I really have to point some of the blame at the people who left the old trash behind.
START THINKING PEOPLE. This isn't difficult.
|
|
|
|
|
randyb
Jan 5, 2009, 7:44 PM
Post #19 of 24
(12601 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Jun 17, 2003
Posts: 49
|
In Stewart Greens defense, the top of this route is a walk up. The location of the new bolts is about a foot away from the old nasty eye-bolts. These old bolts were so clearly trashed,(3" out of the rock and bent at 90 degrees) that there would be no way any experienced climber would even touch them. Stewart has placed many many routes throughout Colorado and has many guide books out, I think he knows what he is doing. I do understand folks response who have not been on the route. It would be clear if you walked up to this toprope only climb.
|
|
|
|
|
sed
Jan 5, 2009, 8:22 PM
Post #20 of 24
(12558 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Aug 3, 2003
Posts: 356
|
Each person's safety is up to that person. Neither Stewart Green nor anyone else are responsible for someone clipping an obviously bad bolt. When we diffuse responsibility to bolters, land owner's and others we encourage generations of climbers who blindly clip and go with a gym mentality and ultimately this creates a more dangerous group of climbers. We need to focus responsibility on the climber. Yes, route setter's and those who place bolts have a personal responsibility to install the appropriate hardware but when a climber's decisions place him or her in harm's way they must accept responsibility for that decision.
S
|
|
|
|
|
socalclimber
Jan 5, 2009, 9:07 PM
Post #21 of 24
(12532 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 2437
|
Interesting responses. Busy now, but will get back.
|
|
|
|
|
reno
Jan 6, 2009, 3:15 PM
Post #22 of 24
(12455 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Oct 30, 2001
Posts: 18283
|
sed wrote: Each person's safety is up to that person. Neither Stewart Green nor anyone else are responsible for someone clipping an obviously bad bolt.
My thoughts exactly.
|
|
|
|
|
jmeizis
Jan 6, 2009, 11:38 PM
Post #23 of 24
(12388 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Apr 25, 2006
Posts: 635
|
Garden sandstone is extremely fragile. Pulling a bolt out would more likely leave a huge hole behind (you can see these all over the place). There are plenty of guys with "historical" Garden pins. They pulled them out with there fingers most of the time. I think in general it's better for the rock for old gear to be left where it is, even if it is crappy. Anyone with any climbing sense would not have clipped those bolts. It doesn't help with rope drag, it doesn't help in equalizing the anchors, it makes more sense in all circumstances to use the newer bolts. It's not my, or any other person's job to hold the hands of an inexperienced climber (unless they're hiring me, then it is my job). I climb and guide in the Garden a great deal and you see a lot of people who are in over their head. Some will take your advice and some people are too proud to listen.
To look at it differently. If it were a natural anchor and the person lowered off a single dead tree as thick as there arm and it broke there would not be a single person saying it was nature's fault for planting such a crappy tree. To me it's no different. If you can't assess the strength of what you're anchoring to then you should receive instruction or not climb.
|
|
|
|
|
socalclimber
Jan 7, 2009, 12:29 PM
Post #24 of 24
(12327 views)
Shortcut
Registered: Nov 27, 2001
Posts: 2437
|
jmeizis wrote: Garden sandstone is extremely fragile. Pulling a bolt out would more likely leave a huge hole behind (you can see these all over the place). There are plenty of guys with "historical" Garden pins. They pulled them out with there fingers most of the time. I think in general it's better for the rock for old gear to be left where it is, even if it is crappy. Anyone with any climbing sense would not have clipped those bolts. It doesn't help with rope drag, it doesn't help in equalizing the anchors, it makes more sense in all circumstances to use the newer bolts. It's not my, or any other person's job to hold the hands of an inexperienced climber (unless they're hiring me, then it is my job). I climb and guide in the Garden a great deal and you see a lot of people who are in over their head. Some will take your advice and some people are too proud to listen. To look at it differently. If it were a natural anchor and the person lowered off a single dead tree as thick as there arm and it broke there would not be a single person saying it was nature's fault for planting such a crappy tree. To me it's no different. If you can't assess the strength of what you're anchoring to then you should receive instruction or not climb.
While I may have some varying opinions about this, and your stance, I got what I was asking for, an informed response.
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
